The Lights Are Going Out

[D9020 Nimbus]

Perhaps it's worth mentioning that Sir Edward Grey, whose remark about the lamps going out all over Europe inspired this commemoration, was, as well as being Foreign Secretary, was also Deputy Chairman of the North Eastern Railway. He appears to have been one of the few leaders of the time who appreciated how costly the war might become.

[EddieB]

Oft quoted over here is that the worst casualty figures for the USA were incurred during the Civil War - which supposedly outnumber all other wars involving the USA since totalled together.

Best, Pete.

Yes, because that was the last war that was fought on "home" soil (excluding Pearl Harbour and, I suppose, 9/11).  Thankfully the USA has largely avoided civilian casualties in all its subsequent conflicts, but which might have brought a different perspective to its modus operandi and proxy warfare.

 

(Said with a heavy heart).

[Taz]

We had always thought we were very fortunate in that all my relatives got through the war alive. One of my great grandfathers was a career soldier and served 14-18, survived being gassed but otherwise lived through it unscathed. Then a few years back we found a photo of an unknown young soldier amongst some of my great grandmothers possessions. It turns out that she had a brother who was killed in the war. The family had never talked about him and my grandparents onwards had never known he existed.

 

In October we are travelling over to the mainland to re-trace the steps of my great grandfather and visit key battlefields he served at. Whilst there we will also visit the grave of my great, great uncle whom we almost never even knew existed.

[trisonic]

My Grandfather survived too. He was attached to the HAC and after being stationed at the Tower of London saw action on the Italian / Austrian border - little known battlefields in British eyes.

 

He did receive a medal from the Italians during the war.

 

The strange thing is that after my parents died I was clearing their house and found a photo of him perched on top of the Sphinx, in uniform.

 

Absolutely no idea why!

 

Best, Pete.

[alfsboy]

I have ordered a ceramic poppy for my wife .Her grandad was one of the BEF 's early casualties,a regular NCO . Sgt Johnson .No idea what unit sadly or even first name .My wifes sister took all the family documents and photos .  A last attempt to control people who had long given up on her ..

My wife  was very pleased when I told her as his loss was always there  even so long ago .

[Londontram]

My grandfather Pte. George William Parsons R.A.S.C. Such a gentle man he managed to survive the war but was so touched by what he saw that he devoted the rest of his life to nursing those that had been effected mentally by the war and received a civilian award for his devotion. He would say that so affected were they that most would never come out of the hospital - the hidden cost that's not much talked about but there just as much casualties as those killed in the trenches.

[Ozexpatriate]

Oft quoted over here is that the worst casualty figures for the USA were incurred during the Civil War (est. 750,000 soldiers) - which supposedly outnumber all other wars involving the USA since totalled together.

In fact almost as many Americans died in three days at Gettysburg (51,112) as did throughout the Vietnam War (58,209) - another frequent anecdote.

 

Another interesting factoid (i.e. no one has actually proven it) is that this war contributed to the mish - mash of nationalities that makes up the USA today in that most of the casualties were of British or Irish descent.

Pete,

 

I'm not sure what that observation is supposed to mean. The civil war death toll, though horrible, did not negatively impact the total US population numbers much.

 

1860 census - 31,443,321

1870 census - 38,555,983

 

A huge blip in the Irish immigration to the US came during the great potato famine (1841-1845) which was of course pre-Civil War. Other waves of immigrants to the US like eastern Europeans (1886-1914), Swedes (1870-1900), Italians (1880 -1914) etc came later.

 

But I digress. This thread is about remembering the beginning of the first world war.

 

There was little in the US to note this passage of time, though CNN did have a photo essay on the ceramic poppies in the Tower Moat. It was quite compelling. I understand the installation is intended to be complete by Armistice Day this year. Sadly I can't find the story now.

 

I anticipate a big commemoration by my countrymen next April 25, the centenary of ANZAC Day.

[Ozexpatriate]

My Grandfather survived too. He was attached to the HAC and after being stationed at the Tower of London saw action on the Italian / Austrian border - little known battlefields in British eyes.

Like Gallipoli and the WW2 "Istria" strategy, Churchill was always keen on 'third front' stratagems.

 

The strange thing is that after my parents died I was clearing their house and found a photo of him perched on top of the Sphinx, in uniform.

That seems very much the 'done thing' for troops being marshalled in Egypt and such photos are quite common for ANZAC Corp 'diggers' and later, Australians sent to Palestine before they were deployed or on leave.

[Ozexpatriate]

Thankfully the USA has largely avoided civilian casualties in all its subsequent conflicts, but which might have brought a different perspective to its modus operandi and proxy warfare.

 

(Said with a heavy heart).

Yes, I understand what you mean.

 

The same might be said of the British Empire in the 19th century. The post-1815 Pax Britannia and the post 1945 Pax Americana have much in common. Let's hope similar lessons, do not need to be learned.

[trisonic]

Michael, It’s the modern US historians view nowadays - I’m not going into detail here - but an interesting follow-up. Actually some of the data you provide for post-civil war answers the question.

 

Best, Pete.

[TheSignalEngineer]

My Great Uncle, George Hadler, Royal West Kents killed Delville Wood (area), Somme, 6th September 1916.

 

Brothers in Arms, indeed.

 

 

 

 

 

Best, Pete.

I'm hoping to pay another visit to the battlefields next year as I intend to go again to where my Grandfather was wounded at Aubers Ridge in 1915. I will lay a poppy for George if I make it back to Delville Wood as his grave is only about 30 yards from Ernie's.

 

Eric

[trisonic]

Eric,

 

Thank you. I forgot you posted that photo a couple of years ago. You are a real gentleman....

 

 

I’m now aiming to pay a visit sometime in 2016 - if I’m able.

 

 

Best, Pete.

[Taz]

Last weekend I, and 10 other members of my family, had the privilege to travel to Belgium and France to retrace some of the steps of my Great Grandfather who served 14-18, mostly on the Western Front. We also visited the grave of my Great, Great Uncle, someone who we didn’t even know existed until a few years ago when we found a photo and remembrance card amongst some of my Great Nan’s possessions.  

We stayed in Ypres and this was the view from my hotel window.

 

The cloth hall dated from the 13^th Century but was almost completely flattened during the war (along with the rest of Ypres). It was then meticulously rebuilt between 1933 and 1967.

We attended the Menin Gate ceremony that night.

 

 

My Great Grandfather was a regular soldier serving in the King’s Own Royal Lancaster Regiment. They deployed to theatre during January 1915 and were deployed to the Ypres salient where he served until he was evacuated back to the UK on 14^th February (wounded or frostbite?)

He returned to his unit during August 1915 and they stayed in the area until October when the Battalion was transferred to Greece.

We spent the next day exploring the area including visiting the grave of 15 year old V J Strudwick (believed to be the second youngest British military casualty of the war), Tyne Cot Cemetery (largest Commonwealth Cemetery) and the German Langemark Cemetery (with more than 44,000 German and 2 British buried there).

 

In June 1917 my Great Grandfather returned to the Western Front when he was posted to the 11^th Battalion, this time in the Somme area. He served to the end of the war, being gassed once and promoted to Sergeant.

Our third day was spent touring the area including the Lochnagar Crater Memorial and the Thiepval Memorial (with the names of more than 72,000 men who have no known grave).

 

We also visited the grave of my Great, Great Uncle Albert Rogers who died on the Somme in November 1916. He was the brother of my Great Nan (who was married to the Great Grandfather I am talking about here). We had always thought she came from a family of 5 sisters not knowing that she had an older brother until quite recently. He may have been forgotten for many years but he will always be remembered from now on.

 

We also did a slight detour for my parents. They are heavily involved as volunteers at Lanhydrock House and my dad does a lot of historic research for the National Trust. Like many families from the Aristocracy the Agar-Robartes were heavily hit by the War losing their eldest son during the war with another committing suicide a few years later. Most of the daughters lost sweethearts and of the 10 children only 2 ended up getting married.

The eldest son, Tommy was a rare beast – a politician who would put his money where his mouth was. MP for Truro he volunteered at the outbreak of war and even transferred regiments to ensure he got sent to the front. He was  shot and fatally wounded when he went over the top to rescue one of his sergeants (who survived). He was recommended for the VC. However high command had previously sent out an order expressly forbidding   officers carrying out this sort of action (due to the heinous loses of junior officers being experienced at that time). So the request was turned down and he ended up with a mention in dispatches.

 

My Great Grandfather remained in the army after the war, serving for many years in India and finishing up as RSM. During WW2 he was a Lieutenant in the Home Guard. Unfortunately he died in 1973, 3 months before I was born so I never got to meet him.

 

Our final day was spent in Bruges, a beautiful place, if a little overstocked with chocolate shops.

 

It was a very interesting and moving trip and the sheer scale of the numbers of casualties brings a perspective on life and makes  me realise how lucky my generation is.

 

[The Stationmaster]

Fascinating stuff Brian.  If you don't know your great grandfather would have been in the 2nd Battalion in 1914, it was then based in India.  Following the Haldane reforms (which followed the debacle of the Second Boer War) the regular army was reorganised onto a 3 or 4 battalion basis - the 1st and 2nd battalions normally alternated between a UK home posting and an overseas posting (hence the 2nd being in India in 1914) although in soem regts the 2nd always seemed to be based overseas, while the 3rd battalion served as the training unit which supplied replacements and full war strength reinforcements for the two line battalions.

 

The heavy losses in France in the early stages of the war meant that many of the home battalions then serving overseas (plus some Indian Army battalions) were brought to Europe to serve on the Western Front, hence your great grandfather arriving in France at what might to some appear to be quite a late date in relation to what was happening at the time.  Good to hear that despite wounds he made it through the war.

 

Most regiments also had a 4th battalion which was their associated Territorial Army/reserve component  During the Great War most regiments expanded considerably and thus added additional battalions but the organisation of the 1st, 2nd & 3rd usually remained constant although obviously the strength of the line battalions fluctuated.

 

The outline history of the Kings Own (Royal Lancaster Regt) will be found here on the extremely useful 'Long Long Trail' website (assuming of course that you haven't found it already)

 

 http://www.1914-1918.net/kingsown.htm

[Taz]

Thanks Mike. He was indeed in the 2nd Battalion at the start of the war.

My dad did a lot of research before we went and was in regular contact with the regimental museum. We had a full set of regimental war diaries which is what we used to plan our itinerary. Otherwise we would never have known the exact areas he was actually serving in.

[Two_sugars]

Was the hotel the "Sultan", Brian?

 

John

[Taz]

No, Hotel O Ieper.

It's military themed with things like ammo boxes used for bedside tables. Excellent location though with most room looking out over the square.

[Two_sugars]

Next door to the Sultan. . . Unfortunately, when I stayed there I was in one of the back rooms, so no view over the square.

 

My grandfather has no known grave, but is listed on the "Berkshire" memorial between Mesen  and Ploegsteert.

 

He was in 8th D.L.I. and died near Epinette 9th August 1915.

 

Ieper has a fair few chocolate shops, too!

[BoD]

Earlier this year a local artist was commissioned to design a sculpture to remember the occasion.

After an appeal the local townsfolk raised the funds necessary to buy the sculpture and make it a permanent feature. 

 

Its not to everyone's taste but I think it is wonderful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He is, of course, known as Tommy and overlooks the cenotaph

 

 

 

 

To give an idea of his size

 

 

 

 

[Kelly]

I think that is a great statue/sculpture. Captures the vibe well it feels like. 

[shortliner]

I agree with Kelly and for those who haven't seen it - this , in many ways, says it all!

 

http://time.com/3535207/ottawa-shooting-cartoon-bruce-mackinnon/

[BoD]

Captures the vibe well it feels like.

 

It is most poignant when a young child wanders up close and looks up into his face. You could easily believe that he is protecting that child.

 

 

Sadly, in this day and age, it would be severely frowned upon if I tried to capture that on camera.