OO Gauge class 71 Electric Locomotive

[stovepipe]

He had an interesting way of asking for help.

Roy

You missed this before pulling your boots on.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/122942-djm-class-71-slow-jerky-cv-settings/&do=findComment&comment=2728447

[37081LochLong]

I thought the forum was to help and encourage people new to the hobby not scare them away

[Roy Langridge]

You missed this before pulling your boots on.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/122942-djm-class-71-slow-jerky-cv-settings/&do=findComment&comment=2728447

Yes, and then he ignored all the advice given and refused to change CVs despite asking what to change.

 

If I ask for help I will thank those who help, listen to what people say and try my best to fix the problem.

 

Roy

[Oldddudders]

I thought the forum was to help and encourage people new to the hobby not scare them away

 

Indeed it is. But when a DCC-user says this (in the other 71 thread) "I appreciate all your suggestions but as a non technical person, all the jargon goes right over my head (Vmin, Vmid and Vmax bemf etc?)" I am afraid it will be a very long haul for him to get the best out of a number of locomotives, which need to have the decoder parameters tuned to their needs. DCC is the opposite of a black box, and some reading and consequent understanding of the basic principles is surely a reasonable expectation. When I - also as a very non-techie person - took on DCC 20 years ago, I was left in no doubt that reading manuals was essential. With sound and other goodies now added to the mix, that understanding is more important than ever. 

[37081LochLong]

A long haul maybe but isn't it best we try to make that haul a little easier for newcomers? I know it's put me off asking dcc questions on rmweb

[PhilH]

Yes, and then he ignored all the advice given and refused to change CVs despite asking what to change.

 

If I ask for help I will thank those who help, listen to what people say and try my best to fix the problem.

 

Roy

 

 

But why take on the role of thread policeman?

[Oldddudders]

A long haul maybe but isn't it best we try to make that haul a little easier for newcomers? I know it's put me off asking dcc questions on rmweb

 

Don't be put off. I found my understanding of certain DCC products was massively helped by the responses of the knowledgeable on here. If you ask a clear question, you generally get a clear answer. 

[Roy Langridge]

But why take on the role of thread policeman?

That wasn't my intent, merely to point out that help had been offered but not followed. Apologies.

 

Roy

[Downendian]

I dont possess a DC controller of any sort. so cant test it that way. .

Hi Ian, most DCC controllers will run a DC loco with blanking plug. My Lenz system does this when set to address zero.

Neil

[Roy Langridge]

Hi Ian, most DCC controllers will run a DC loco with blanking plug. My Lenz system does this when set to address zero.

Neil

Didn't somebody suggest on one of the threads that this wasn't good for coreless motors as it is a pulsed supply again?

 

Roy

[New Haven Neil]

I think a few folk need to RTFM.

[PhilH]

I think a few folk need to RTFM.

Done that a few times, can't honestly say I've understood a lot of them

[Downendian]

Didn't somebody suggest on one of the threads that this wasn't good for coreless motors as it is a pulsed supply again?

Roy

Hadn't seen that Roy- in this thread?

Neil

[Roy Langridge]

Hadn't seen that Roy- in this thread?

Neil

I don't know any more. I did suggest a while ago that all the discussion regarding coreless motors could do with being in one common thread. As it is we are having the same discussion in numerous threads.

 

Roy

Edited May 28, 2017 by Roy Langridge

[TRAILRAGE]

Had a chance to run my Blue model on some stock today whether it was on a Freight , Parcels  or Passenger it was smooth as it gets. Been using the same Guagemaster Model W  walkabout controllers for the last 20 + years  and My 2 DJM class 71's work absolutely perfect for me. 

 

Oh yeah Pantograph's are sturdier than I thought they would be even with my sausage fingers!

 

Again Thanks go not only to Dave for producing such a beautiful little model but to everyone who kept the faith with this project.

 

Cheers Trailrage 

[DJM Dave]

I don't know any more. I did suggest a while ago that all the discussion regarding coreless morirs could do with being in one common thread. As it is we are having the same discussion in numerous threads.

Roy

I think RMWeb would benefit from a 'technical section' maybe split into various threads.......dcc, analogue, controller performance, decoder performance, track laying, wiring, etc etc.

 

I've not checked but maybe that's all here, if it is please let me know where and I'll bookmark it. If not, then maybe it's time for RMWeb to evolve accordingly.

 

After all, there is valid info out there regarding what loco's don't like what controllers and why, and that there are certain controllers that throw out electrical spikes that could ruin the national grid, let alone locomotives.

Why electronic track cleaners are bad or even good for your layout?

Why 16v ac power packs don't necessarily throw out 16v.

 

That sort of thing.

 

It's more work, sorry Andy, but maybe this is the next evolution for the modeller by the best model railway forum out there?

 

The recent 71 thread CV changes, is a perfect example of what can be achieved and shows the need for this sort of thing.

 

Cheers

Dave

[SRman]

I managed to get some 'quiet time' this morning, so set up the camera wagon behind the class 71 for a change (usually when I am doing a "cab ride" I have the wagon in front of the locomotive).

I have demonstrated some, but not all of the features of the locomotive and legomanbiffo sounds. For the record, the speed was settled at step 50 (out of 126) on my NCE Pro Cab.

Sounds include the roar of the traction motor blower (I think I need more bass for this, so a larger, bass reflex speaker may be finding its way into the locomotive in the future), the two slightly different air whistle tones (F2 and F3), the marker lights (F0 - left on to give the locomotive some 'presence' in the darkness of the tunnels), directional cab lights (F19), cab door slam (F6), and the lovely compressor sound (F7).

As you can see, the LokSound v4 decoder seems to have no problems with controlling the locomotive smoothly. It was originally set for a class 350 (hence the written label visible in an earlier photo I took) but I did a reblow with 'Bif's sounds late last year, and have changed nothing in the settings except the volume (CV63).

I have noted the slight wheel wobble on the low-sided wagon just ahead of the camera - a wheel change will be executed soon! Edited May 28, 2017 by SRman

[No Decorum]

Superb video of a superb railway! The idea of putting two low wagons between the camtruck and the loco is simple but very effective indeed. Thank you for posting it.

[Dave Scott]

I managed to get some 'quiet time' this morning, so set up the camera wagon behind the class 71 for a change (usually when I am doing a "cab ride" I have the wagon in front of the locomotive).

 

I have demonstrated some, but not all of the features of the locomotive and legomanbiffo sounds. For the record, the speed was settled at step 50 (out of 126) on my NCE Pro Cab.

 

Sounds include the roar of the traction motor blower (I think I need more bass for this, so a larger, bass reflex speaker may be finding its way into the locomotive in the future), the two slightly different air whistle tones (F2 and F3), the marker lights (F0 - left on to give the locomotive some 'presence' in the darkness of the tunnels), directional cab lights (F19), cab door slam (F6), and the lovely compressor sound (F7).

 

As you can see, the LokSound v4 decoder seems to have no problems with controlling the locomotive smoothly. It was originally set for a class 350 (hence the written label visible in an earlier photo I took) but I did a reblow with 'Bif's sounds late last year, and have changed nothing in the settings except the volume (CV63).

 

 

 

I have noted the slight wheel wobble on the low-sided wagon just ahead of the camera - a wheel change will be executed soon!

Good video however the guard in me kept yelling - turn the red marker lights off - its not the rearmost vehicle - guards have a fixation with tail lamps

[SRman]

Good video however the guard in me kept yelling - turn the red marker lights off - its not the rearmost vehicle - guards have a fixation with tail lamps

 

I agree, but, as I said in the post, I deliberately left the marker/tail lights on because of the absence of any other lighting in the darker parts of the tunnel, just for the camera.

 

p.s. there is a guard's whistle in the sound set too!

[Gwiwer]

As some will know I currently lack any means of running or testing anything. However with the questions regarding tbe 71 speed in mind an opportunity arose yesterday to both give it a test run and discuss with my nephew who is far wiser in the electronics aspect than I am ever likely to be.

 

So E5010 travelled aboard South Western and Southern trains to meet nephew in Worthing. He had come over from the Isle of Ancient Tube Trains with enough track and some basic testing kit and tools

 

First let me stress this has not been done under "factory conditions" and was a DC table-top test. Comments may not apply to DCC users.

 

The loco was placed on straight track with no load coupled, was powered by a Gaugemaster Combi and achieved a shade under 60mph (scaled as per posts above) after some running in. A little slow as others have found.

 

Nephew then probed and tested the innards for quite some time and suggested I could make a easy change on the DCC dummy board bypassing six diodes as shown below . But the motor and LEDs would not start up at the same time. Something to do with the way everything works in together.

 

It appeared that to short out these two points on R10 would bypass six diodes and the loco should run at normal speed.

 

Not something I was terribly comfortable about but trusting nephew's skill and understanding we proceeded and found that the loco then achieved a scale speed closer to 72mph

 

Very much a case of I don't know how but it works. And offered here as a thought for anyone troubled by low top speeds.

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Just track tested my E5010 and yes,it is a little slow (Gaugemaster12v DC) That does not overmuch bother me as I do not run a race track.Maybe it will improve after a long period of running in.Slow speed control is excellent ....as expected.Gears as predicted a little noisy,so,now I must find a suitable lubricant and an efficient and accurate method of application.Looking forward to testing its haulage capacity properly after running in.A novel experience operating a model which in part I helped fund. Lovely model,beautifully finished with exquisite lettering etc.and an excellent authentic paint job..I'm happy with my ( modest ) investment.

[gz3xzf]

OK, had a chance to run-in and chip my E5004, I am very happy with the smooth drive and the slow running ability. She ran fine using my H&M Clipper with the Wave Switch in the Full position and the Resistance Switch in the High position; I ran it for 30 minutes in either direction (see post #1715).

 

Now for the the issues, one of the pantograph contact strip ends missed being curved in the correct way, but as this is a metal piece I am quite happy to correct this myself: -

 

I have fitted a Gaugemaster DCC27 chip (I have not bothered with sound) and I have discovered that the marker lights, when switched on, are showing the wrong direction (i.e. the leading end shows red and the trailing end shows white) but they do change direction when the loco is reversed. The top speed is fairly slow, although I haven't measured it yet. The headcode lights are not available with my MERG designed DCC controllers.

 

I am going to read through this thread to see which of these have already been answered.

 

In conclusion the look and feel of the model is very high quality, it runs beautifully (other than the top speed) and looks the part. I've had no issues running the loco on Peco/Hornby small radius points and second radius curves (I haven't investigated the bogie brackets yet). As I said in my previous post (#1715) the packaging is excellent quality and I am glad that I took part in this crowdfunding opportunity; keep up the good work Dave.

[PeteB]

....I have fitted a Gaugemaster DCC27 chip.....  The headcode lights are not available with my MERG designed DCC controllers.

 

The Gaugemaster DCC27 is a 4 function decoder - so that's front and rear marker lights, and 2xcab lights.  The headcode is on the next function output, which your decoder doesn't have.

 

You could rewire the board, perhaps put both cab lights on the same function output and the headcode on the wire that becomes available by so doing.

 

I am also using the MERG DCC handsets, see my post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88264-oo-gauge-class-71-electric-locomotive/?view=findpost&p=2731227

for how I tweaked the circuit board to get all the functions with a Zimo 6 function decoder.

[gz3xzf]

The Gaugemaster DCC27 is a 4 function decoder - so that's front and rear marker lights, and 2xcab lights.  The headcode is on the next function output, which your decoder doesn't have.

 

You could rewire the board, perhaps put both cab lights on the same function output and the headcode on the wire that becomes available by so doing.

 

I am also using the MERG DCC handsets, see my post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/88264-oo-gauge-class-71-electric-locomotive/?view=findpost&p=2731227

for how I tweaked the circuit board to get all the functions with a Zimo 6 function decoder.

Thanks PeteB, I did read your post, but missed it when I re-read the thread; I will have a think about that. I would rather not change the wiring or circuit boards so I will continue to see if there is a decoder software/parameter change for now.

 

I have fixed the marker light directional issue by swapping the values of CV49 and CV50, on the Gaugemaster decoders these two parameters choose when the white and yellow wires are made live, forward, reverse or both. Default values are CV49=0 and CV50=16; I have set them CV49=16 & CV50=0. The OPTI Series Decoder Manual on the Gaugemaster website has a good description of them.