Revised Mk3s?

[159220]

Yikes! Clicks to remove pre-order!

 

Why oh why! I would of preferred to have waited for the tooling to be fixed than the FGW buffet to be rushed.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/fgw-mk3-buffet-coach-40752-r4371a-JJJA27259.aspx

[Removed a/c]

I have a feeling that there are going to be quite of a few of these hanging around on dealers shelves in many different liveries for quite some time.  

[Lochnagar]

It's stupid. Picked up the last three for my FGW rake today, buffet, TGS, and the final coach B. Complete rake is nice, but the buffet needs fixing as per the last few releases as it's got a duff roof! 

 

Also, picked up the Executive and MML power cars today.

 

Executive. . 43021 and 22 should both have guards windows, but this is easily fixed by renumbering 42022 to a higher numbered one without guards windows, not an issue for me as I was planning on renumbering them anyway. The Intercity 125 lettering however is sadly incorrect, being silver rather than white (it's white on the box!!) also it's over scale. Ordering some transfers from Fox tomorrow to correct this. 

 

MML power cars.. on the whole, nice effort. The entire rake suffers from the incorrect roof colour, it should be dark grey, not black. I might not bother correcting this as it'll be lost with weathering anyway. But at least the tooling is correct for 43043/44. Printing is slightly hit and miss, wonky nameplate, and the difficult livery application around the cab roofs is passable but not great. 

 

It's worth mentioning that the EMT light configuration has gone, both of these have the standard light clusters and light pattern which is correct. (MML only lasted a year or two like this though before receiving new clusters as per EMT). 

 

Running wise, totally fine and up to the high standard of the older ones.

 

Good effort Hornby, but you can do better. 

[surfsup]

Rather unsurprisingly, Look what's ended up in the Bargain Bin.

 

http://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/ex-virgin-mk3-coach-bundle.html

 

Slightly surprised that the Mk3 TSO (not TS as it isn't a HST vehicle) has sold out though as apposed to previous 'Virgin' Mk3s.

[Hilux5972]

I have just attempted to open up the R4439 GC Buffet. in the process i cracked all 4 door windows. Horrible design.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Hilux5972

[surfsup]

I have just attempted to open up the R4439 GC Buffet. in the process i cracked all 4 door windows. Horrible design.

Is that the bizarre ex Lima RFM/TRSB Hybrid effort one? I have noticed some of them were modified with more plastic braces but the plastic still remains very brittle compared to Lima's effort.

[Hilux5972]

Yes I believe it is that one. I was planning on opening up the entire take and putting passengers in it. Having failed to remove the roof from the buffet, it shall remain passenger-less. I may look at cutting the floor out instead. Could be another option. I'm just not sure if the floor is what keeps the body on.

[dibber25]

Yes I believe it is that one. I was planning on opening up the entire take and putting passengers in it. Having failed to remove the roof from the buffet, it shall remain passenger-less. I may look at cutting the floor out instead. Could be another option. I'm just not sure if the floor is what keeps the body on.

If its the old Lima model, the floor, sides and ends are one moulding, the roof and glazing are another moulding. I had the roofs off several of the old Lima ones - almost always broke the droplight windows or chipped the edge of the roof as the clear plastic used for glazing is very brittle.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Hilux5972]

Yeah it's unfortunate they kept this design.

[sub39h]

The best way is to flick the gangway ends off, break the tab holding the clear bit of plastic and then (and I know it sounds extreme) use a mini drill and cutting disc and cut down the middle of the body on the end. The floor is still held together, so you can pry apart the top and remove the roof from that side. Then do what you need to do and glue the whole lot back together again.

 

http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/class-43nmt/index-coaches.htm

 

Someone else has done a run through of what to do about 1/3 of the way down using a Lima based TGS.

[surfsup]

Just discovered another problem last night with the latest batch of MK3s. . the Intercity Executive liveried TGS. Holding it up to the light I could see 'something' inside, obscuring two windows on one side only. On opening it up, the problem was rather obvious. . and made us laugh

 

IMG_3523.jpg

 

IMG_3528.jpg

 

So my TGS has a Lima/Hornby 4 window buffet interior, great! LOL

 

In all seriousness, this is getting daft. Someone at Margate or China needs firing, idiotic errors like this are indicative of people who have no idea what they're making or can't be bothered to do any research at all. Or simply no quality checks whatsoever on the tooling stage. Fair play, normal viewing doesn't give it away due to the tinted windows, but the coaches with lighting you'll definitely see it! Either way it's wrong and would annoy me. 

 

I've checked my MML TGS, which is as normal. But I'm guessing this will affect all executive TGS, and possible some of the newer blue/grey, Arriva, and weathered ex-Virgin models. So if anyone wants to report back on here if their model/s are affected maybe we could all approach Hornby with a list of required TGS interiors. 

 

As it happens I had a TGS interior lying around so I've swapped it, but I'm guessing I'm in the minority. Also the ex Lima Mk3s are quite difficult to crack open without causing damage, took me a good 10 minutes to open it up and get the seating out. Slide a knife/plasticard between the cantrail roof join and pull the bodyside away and outwards from the windows, the windows act as clips for the roof and come out as one. 

 

Not impressed, another pointless Homer Simpson style 'D'oh' moment from a company apparently trying to disappear up it's own behind with silly mistakes. I don't like saying that, because the products of 5 years ago were superb, such a shame.

Oh Dear, the Gaffs are back. Albeit another minor one as your not going to be seeing that much of the inside of a Sleeper but another one none the less.

 

Model Rail magazine

 

19 mins ·

.

 

I'm just opening up a Hornby Mk3 Night Riviera sleeping car in order to put some lights into it. It's a tricky job which I'll describe and illustrate in a future Model Rail. However, what has really surprised me is that Hornby's passengers are expected to sleep sitting up. The car has a 'standard class' seated interior fitted! It looks like I'll be doing more than just fitting lights! (CJL)

[brushman47544]

All these problems with the Mk3s, including buffet roof tooling lost, makes me wonder if Sanda Kan gave Hornby a skip (no not a 67!) full of tooling parts and said "you'll have to work out for yourselves which go together with which".

 

In view of the earlier errors, you really would think closer attention would be paid to quality control on later releases.

[JSpencer]

I see no point in buying excellent HST power cars until we have some decent mk3s to go with them.

[dibber25]

Recently opened up a MK3 sleeper (FGW dynamic lines version) and actually managed to do it without causing any damage. As Sub39h says, take the gangway ends off and lift the roof from the end, where any damage will be less visible. I found that the droplights then released OK, enough to get a small screwdriver between the side and the roof. Then its a case of gently levering the side outwards (the side is much more flexible than the roof) and slipping in pieces of card. I used about 8 pieces either side. Amusingly, (having thought that the dark glass meant there was no interior) I found when I opened it, the interior of a TSO.!! Presumably passengers sleep sitting up in non-reclining seats! I never realised......

CHRIS LEIGH

[jonathan452]

As I mentioned on several other threads some time back the 'Pretendolino' TSO's (as sold seperately) were incorrectly fitted with the FO seating unit.

 

Hoping that a 'silver lining' to the c**k up with the latest FGW sleeper coaches will be some spare TSO seating units coming on-to the market so that I can retrofit the errant vehicles.

 

In the meantime I just despair over this latest avoidable error/QC issue.

 

Which factory if you please?

Edited May 10, 2015 by jonathan452

[James90012]

It is totally unacceptable to have these really minor issues that Hornby have been doing recently - it just isn't professional in any sense.

[Removed a/c]

and we are paying top dollar for them too !!!

[royaloak]

Oh come on its quite funny, you buy a Hornby mark 3 and you have to guess what interior it has, you then open it up and see if you are right!

 

Seriously though, I am really not impressed that 'this company' can get every small detail right on the steamers, but make monumental errors on any/every modern model!

I guess it just shows the contempt for modern image modellers 'this company' has with their 'stuff it that's close enough' attitude.

 

Signed not a Hornby fan.

[Removed a/c]

The problems is a lot of people are buying them and using them as is. So why would Hornby even care or make any chnages.  I am by no means a rivet counter nor am I a perfectionist, but when the windows don't match a previous release or the interiors are wrong, sorry I am not buying them despite the fact that I do need a buffet and a TGS for my HST rake. 

[surfsup]

Completely agree with you royaloak, I finished my shift early yesterday so had the chance to head through the local Modelzone on my way back and spotted these two. Not only is the Dynamic Lines inconsistently printed - some have faded edges others sharp - all the latest batches look far too washed out compared to the near perfect 1st batch, but also the differing shades of Blue on what is supposed to make up the same HST rake (Buffet Car with no roof vents included).

[Cbpete]

Hi guys, just reading about all the comments about the MK3's, l have got a set of the Arriva one's and have to say they look good, all got the correct interiors and correct vents on the buffet car roof. But why have we not got the same standards as the pullman coaches and the same choice. There is so many different versions. All we get is 3 mk3's which are okay and 3 which are 1983 with a few updates and in my opinion should be re branded as railroad models. I am going to put some Kadee couplings on to the body of the coaches to try and get the gap closer between them, just got to find a way to do the DVT a great model let down by buffers on the rear that stick out too much and with no close coupling as a gap of over a cm. I am just waiting for Bachmann to bring them out, hopefully when the new mk2's are out, next up MK3's. I even thought Dapol may of produced them with them producing the N guage ones.

[Hilux5972]

Hi guys, just reading about all the comments about the MK3's, l have got a set of the Arriva one's and have to say they look good, all got the correct interiors and correct vents on the buffet car roof. But why have we not got the same standards as the pullman coaches and the same choice. There is so many different versions. All we get is 3 mk3's which are okay and 3 which are 1983 with a few updates and in my opinion should be re branded as railroad models. I am going to put some Kadee couplings on to the body of the coaches to try and get the gap closer between them, just got to find a way to do the DVT a great model let down by buffers on the rear that stick out too much and with no close coupling as a gap of over a cm. I am just waiting for Bachmann to bring them out, hopefully when the new mk2's are out, next up MK3's. I even thought Dapol may of produced them with them producing the N guage ones.

I completely agree CBPete. It doesn't seem that many people agree though. Every time I mention upgraded Mk3 coaches people always say 'oh these ones are alright for their age etc'. It is time we had some to match the power cars.

[Derekstuart]

I realise this might prove controversial, but I am not convinced the power cars are all that great either.

 

- livery is incorrect on all the BR variants

- The bogies feature incorrect detail for any type not infected with a MTU replacement power plant

- The grill- much lauded for its ability to see straight through (no Marston's behind to look at!) has the wrong number of grill slats

- Wrong numbers for guard/ non-guard variety (BR variants only of course)

- wind deflector below the wiper present when it shouldn't be

- Not great detail around the inner ends

- Worst of all: look at the nose, across the lip- it is far too flat. There should be a very subtle curvature across it- something that a bloke with a measuring stick got right 30 years ago but modern LASER measuring cannot.

 

They aren't bad, but for that price it is somewhat irritating that there's all this clever detailing and yet so many fundamental flaws with the basics.

 

I appreciate this won't sit well with everyone and I respect your viewpoint, so I ask that you respect mine.

PS I wouldn't touch any more Mazak built chassis until there is a cast iron (!) guarantee that the zinc issues are resolved.

[Hilux5972]

I realise this might prove controversial, but I am not convinced the power cars are all that great either.

 

- livery is incorrect on all the BR variants

- The bogies feature incorrect detail for any type not infected with a MTU replacement power plant

- The grill- much lauded for its ability to see straight through (no Marston's behind to look at!) has the wrong number of grill slats

- Wrong numbers for guard/ non-guard variety (BR variants only of course)

- wind deflector below the wiper present when it shouldn't be

- Not great detail around the inner ends

- Worst of all: look at the nose, across the lip- it is far too flat. There should be a very subtle curvature across it- something that a bloke with a measuring stick got right 30 years ago but modern LASER measuring cannot.

 

They aren't bad, but for that price it is somewhat irritating that there's all this clever detailing and yet so many fundamental flaws with the basics.

 

I appreciate this won't sit well with everyone and I respect your viewpoint, so I ask that you respect mine.

 

PS I wouldn't touch any more Mazak built chassis until there is a cast iron (!) guarantee that the zinc issues are resolved.

I do indeed respect your viewpoint and opinion. It's good to have healthy disagreements between modellers every now and then. Personally, I believe the cars are a huge step up from the previous ones. Yes there are detail faults, but I can personally live with them. Obviously those that can not will change them, as is their prerogative.

[Derekstuart]

Hilux5972, do you know how good that is to read?

So many people are wedded to their opinions and won't accept any other viewpoints. To converse with someone who disagrees but doesn't argue is such a pleasant change.

 

They ARE a step up in many ways. The space behind the leading bogie for the compressor (and originally a fuel tank- quickly removed) is far better than the Lima version and the grill had so much potential. For me the one really good thing about the Hornby one is the lighting units and grill- Hornby got that spot on. If I could transplant that onto a Lima version...

 

It is just a shame that they didn't get it all right. Releasing pre-production pictures on RMW would have given them the feedback to get it right (after all, it's hardly a commercial risk as the lead times mean that no one would try and copy them if their design was that far advanced and near ready for production).

I would make one last observation (and no it isn't about the raised moulding marks for lining up paint that I forgot to mention earlier) and that is in the days of Lima, their engineers used to consult with BR staff and would look at the loco/carriage/wagon with their own eyes and then show the sample to people who knew the item. I doubt the designers in China have any idea what our trains look like any more than I could correct errors on a model of a Chinese train.