Help with locos in Utah?

[highpeak]

It wasn't completely unknown for passenger units to enjoy a second lease on life (Bangor and Aroostook regeared their E7s to haul freight in the earlu 60s for a few years before, I believe, trading them in on GP38s) but it wasn't really very common and as Adrian Wintle and others note, pretty unlikely with something like a DL-109.

 

That said, the New Haven did use their DL-109s on freight service at night, and leased three of them to the Bangor and Aroostook in the winter of 1953-54 to haul potatoes, but by the 70s this would be pretty unlikely.

 

More likely fates for redundant but not quite worn out power plants was to serve as just that, a power plant. One of Maine Central's Hudsons ended up on the Portland Terminal roster in the 50s as a steam generator to help thaw out frozen up switches in Portland's Rigby yard (not many terminal railroads rostered Hudsons!), The power units from B&M's Talgo train ended up as generators for a car crushing plant in Leeds, ME in the early 70s. The last NH DL-109 generated electricity for a test third rail track in Boston. They all ended up being scrapped eventually.

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Lloyd (GWR),

 

Ah, an NW2, a smart choice for a switching/shortline layout, from both proto and modelling points-of-view ;-)

 

Not as popular as an SW in terms of sheer numbers sold on the prototype,
but certainly a logical cost-effective choice for a shortline,
and no-one but the EMD-educated will pick the difference from typical viewing distances...

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[GWR88]

cheers highpeak,

Typical! I was going to model Maine but instead i chose Utah...darn. 

Thanks prof,

An NW2 will soon be on the roster. I was looking at the union pacific liveried one to buy.

[Adrian Wintle]

Typical! I was going to model Maine but instead i chose Utah...darn. 

 

You need less trees for Utah...

[GWR88]

You need less trees for Utah...

Thats a very valid point

[dave1905]

By the way there are at least a half dozen other cities or towns in the US named St. George. (including Vermont).

 

St George, MO is a suburb of St. Louis and is on the Frsico/BN/BNSF.

 

St. George, KS is near Manhattan, KS and is on the UP Salina Sub, part of the old Kansas Pacific line.  Its a small community with no industries right there.  Even though its Kansas since its near a river there are trees along that stretc.  8-(

[GWR88]

Thanks dave i still need a name for the layout

[shortliner]

Thanks dave i still need a name for the layout

Utah confusion? 

[GWR88]

Hahhaaa the thing is shortliner, you dont know how relavent that name is!

[CVSNE]

First of all, Santa Fe never rostered any DL109s - they had one single DL107 A unit. (In fairness, only dedicated Santa Fe nuts like to point that out - the external differences between the 107 and the 109 are minor and virtualy invisible in N scale.)

That said, I think the DL109 on a shortline in Utah in the 1970s would definitely stick out as "odd" to me. There were only 74 of them built - 60 for one railroad - the New Haven - and most of them were scrapped in the 1950s and early 60s. The last one, a former NH unit, was scrapped in 1969.

I think you need to consider which of the following three elements are most important to you: 

Locale

Era

Equipment

 

Obviously, these are interrelated. Say the most important is Locale (Utah), followed by era and equipment in that order (this seems to be how this is shaping up). So in this case it may be Utah, in the 1970s. That tells you a DL107 (or 109) is really not legit - sorry. I'd say a former SP first generation SD, or a former UP GP7 or 9 - even a GP18 or GP20 would fit the bill and look far more appropriate than a shiny silver and red Alco cab unit.

 

But, it's your railroad.

 

My .02

[GWR88]

Thanks CVSNE,

Im trying my best to try and stay prototypical but apparently all my local library cant find any books about the US and its railroads only books about British rail in the 1980s  Also CVSNE, do you know anything about how freight yards were arranged as i need a few tips about them!

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Lloyd (GWR),

 

"Freight yards" are a big multi-faceted topic, and cover a lot of situations and permutations.
Esp on a smaller layout, one has to take even the most "pared back" example of "a yard", and look carefully at what they are trying to model.

 

Some reading to get you up to speed

 

https://www.x2011west.org/handouts/ldBootcamp-YardOps.pdf

 

http://www.nmra.org/member/sites/default/files/datasheets/Trackwrk/d3h1.PDF

 

http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[GWR88]

cheers prof, 

i was just gonna ask: in the 70s, would a rural yard just have lorries waiting to be loaded parked up on the excess ballast arounnd the unloading platform or would the area be paved/ concrete?

Edit: I just thought this info would help: The yard is used to deliver goods to the local town and therefore has an impartial boxcar service of about 4 cars per train

[dave1905]

You won't need much in St George.  Since at best it would be the end of a branch or a wide spot in the branch, it might have 2-3 yard tracks and what ever industry tracks you want to have.  1980's the traffic would be fairly thin.  Since its Utah you won't have a brewery or beer distributor.  Probably a grain elevator or feed store, a lumber yard  and fuel dealer (oil and propane).  An unloading dock/ramp for construction/farming machinery.  I haven't seen what other industry is around but there should be some companies that use plastics or chemicals.

 

I know they have a hospital there because ironically yesterday I found out that one of my former cardiologists relocated to St George last year.  If you are ever in the SW corner of Utah and need a cardiac ablation, look up Dr. Gleed.

[GWR88]

Thanks dave,

The yard is mainly going to be used to supply food, drinks, oil, tools and other necessities to the town and surrounding areas. 

[CVSNE]

cheers prof, 

i was just gonna ask: in the 70s, would a rural yard just have lorries waiting to be loaded parked up on the excess ballast arounnd the unloading platform or would the area be paved/ concrete?

Edit: I just thought this info would help: The yard is used to deliver goods to the local town and therefore has an impartial boxcar service of about 4 cars per train

If my "British-American" translator is working properly  "lorries" are road trucks?

Perhaps your using the term "freight yard" differently than we're interpreting it?

Trucks parked around on the excess ballast with an unloading platform sounds to me less like a 'freight yard' and more like a team track or freight house arrangement.

Both of these would be excellent themes for a small switching layout.

[GWR88]

CVSNE

Yeah lorries are trucks sorry! Would a team track just be an unloading ramp with ballast around it? Sorry if these questions are a bit stupid but British libraries and google arent exactly helping me!

[Talltim]

A team track is a common user loading/unloading siding in a yard (as opposed to private siding for one user) it would almost definately have paving in the period you are looking at, possibly on both sides of the track to allow forklifts to get to both sides of centerbeam flatcars.

It might have a loading dock to one side, but this is unlikely, an end loading ramp might be a better bet, especially is it was a location that could made use of it frequently. (E.g. there was a farm machinery dealer in town)

[GWR88]

Cheers Talltim,

Looks like i will have to break out the polyfilla

Edit: Where i was looking at a small petrol/oil terminal on a siding, i was going to have a budd unit run every so often to fill its tanks. The re-fueling point would be on the loco spur as literally a small pump box and a hose. Think it will suffice?

[Adrian Wintle]

Cheers Talltim,

Looks like i will have to break out the polyfilla

Edit: Where i was looking at a small petrol/oil terminal on a siding, i was going to have a budd unit run every so often to fill its tanks. The re-fueling point would be on the loco spur as literally a small pump box and a hose. Think it will suffice?

 

At that level of use they would probably just refuel direct from a smallish road tanker.

Something like: http://www.equipmentlocator.com/asp/eDetails/Chevrolet/KODIAK+70/Fuel+Truck/For+Sale/eqID/1282245/eID/320/loc/na-en/close/yes/

 

Adrian

[GWR88]

Cheers adrian,will leave the budd car for now then

[highpeak]

The main economic activity in St. George is related to tourism due to its relative proximity to Zion, Bryce Canyon and Grand Canyon National Parks as well as several state parks.

I stopped there in 1991 during a cross-country odyssey to replace the plug wires on my Jeep CJ7, all I remember of the place was a K-Mart and a sprawling mall more or less in the middle of nowhere. (The insulation had broken down causing cross-fire of adjacent cylinders). We enjoyed the store's AC for a while, I replaced the wires and away we went to Zion NP.

It has a relatively new municipal airport where a rather odd incident occurred in 2012 involving an airline pilot suspected of murder running a regional jet plane into the terminal building before committing suicide.

Historically the area was settled because the Mormon elders thought they could grow cotton and tobacco. It wasn't an economic proposition. Googling around suggests there are a fair number of dude ranches, and it's a popular retirement location. I think  I'd go with Dave1905's suggestions for traffic and rely on modeler's license.

With tourism being a major activity, your Budd car might play a role in some sort of tourist operation. But I doubt there'd be much traffic in Bud, Utah has strict alcohol laws, a bit more liberal after the Salt Lake Olympics, pretty dry in your time period. It's a control state, meaning the state runs alcohol wholesale and retail distribution for the most part, grocery stores are only allowed to sell beer with less than 3.2% ABV. Cheers!

[dave1905]

Thanks dave,

The yard is mainly going to be used to supply food, drinks, oil, tools and other necessities to the town and surrounding areas. 

 

I think you have different concept of a yard from the N American concept of a yard.  Generally a yard is place where railroads switch cars, make up and originate trains and terminate trains.  Generally cars are not loaded or unloaded at yards.  Generally cars are loaded or unloaded at industry tracks which are separate from the yards.

[autocoach]

I was in the Moab Utah brewery and brew pub last October. I understand it is either the best or the only brewery in Utah.  20 different brews and all 3.2%.  Tasted fine after a long hard drive from Ely Nevada and as I was continuing on to Durango Colorado that afternoon, a couple of pints of 3.2% was fine. In Durango there was a cowboy poetry festival going on and the whiskey was flowing.

 

Also about terminology, railroads use ballast on tracks not areas to drive trucks as ballast is rather large course chunks of rock about the size of a plum to an apple these days. It is expensive.  The unloading area as many streets and areas without heavy traffic are built with gravel which is much smaller stone and cheaper.  Unless there is a lot of business with heavy vehicles paving would not be worth it. 

 

By the 1970's there was no LCL(less than carload or mixed cargo) traffic to most of the country. Unless you were getting a full carload (50 foot car is 80-100 tons for freight depending on density} the railroads did not want to talk to you. All the traffic was in trucks.  For St George the distribution to truck carriage would be in Las Vegas. 

 

Except for a trees along creeks and planted trees that area of southern Utah is pretty treeless except in the higher mountains areas. 

[GWR88]

The main economic activity in St. George is related to tourism due to its relative proximity to Zion, Bryce Canyon and Grand Canyon National Parks as well as several state parks.

I stopped there in 1991 during a cross-country odyssey to replace the plug wires on my Jeep CJ7, all I remember of the place was a K-Mart and a sprawling mall more or less in the middle of nowhere. (The insulation had broken down causing cross-fire of adjacent cylinders). We enjoyed the store's AC for a while, I replaced the wires and away we went to Zion NP.

It has a relatively new municipal airport where a rather odd incident occurred in 2012 involving an airline pilot suspected of murder running a regional jet plane into the terminal building before committing suicide.

Historically the area was settled because the Mormon elders thought they could grow cotton and tobacco. It wasn't an economic proposition. Googling around suggests there are a fair number of dude ranches, and it's a popular retirement location. I think  I'd go with Dave1905's suggestions for traffic and rely on modeler's license.

With tourism being a major activity, your Budd car might play a role in some sort of tourist operation. But I doubt there'd be much traffic in Bud, Utah has strict alcohol laws, a bit more liberal after the Salt Lake Olympics, pretty dry in your time period. It's a control state, meaning the state runs alcohol wholesale and retail distribution for the most part, grocery stores are only allowed to sell beer with less than 3.2% ABV. Cheers!

Thanks highpeak.

Yes the yard is completely made up but im trying to make it seem as realistic as possible. Even if i must apply some modellers license!