Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 The little local loco would stay on your layout for quite a while before being tripped back to base for a service. Â I've noticed UP send out maintenance crews with a truck (3rd pic, post 101) to do all but the most comprehensive work on site, rather than tow switchers back to base. Â Makes a nice little cameo for a layout too. Â Â Â There's a chap inside the long hood of the GP40 whose ride is the pick up. Â the truck with the crane is carrying replacement wheel-sets, which is also a job done out in the boonies where ever possible. Â Which reminds me, another feature I seldom see modelled is the vehicle access that runs along side most US railroads for MoW and others... Â Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Actually access roads are pretty rare in the US, mostly a western road, out in the prairies/desert thing or someplace a main track was abandoned and the former main becomes a road. The barrier to them in other places is all the bridges that would be required and that the terrain doesn't lend itself to creating a road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I'm just a south-western boy, y'see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH-UK Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 No worries with access roads for me, the rail line in my prototype is sandwiched between two local roads for most of its length Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 That would be interesting to model, big train pulls up on your layout, switches out a loco and some cars and carries on. Loco switches then big train comes back and takes the loco and the swapped out cars away again.Big trains do of course require big layouts, but as I see it, capturing at least parts of this sort of operation (& the 'crossover' ops between Hauling & Switching) is what the whole point of the Blog entry was, & my intention in starting a thread about it here.At last we seem to be on topic.... Â ...& thanks for the pics Dr G-F.; great stuff!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I subscribe to an Indiana Railroad sighting thread on another forum, and whilst these aren't switching, they do end up with little consists with big power from time to time! Their big power generally handles unit coal trains but also some pretty chunky manifests and recently containers, but due I guess to variations in traffic or the need to move power around some interesting results pop up... Â (Key for the following - 90xx series and CEFX1xx series are SD9043MAC, 38xx series are GP38-2...) Â 13th Mar 10.09pm - 9004/9013 Northbound with 13 cars 8th Mar 7.43pm - 9025/9001/CEFX118 Northbound with 8 cars 2nd Feb 11.33pm - 9013/9025/3805 Northbound 12 cars 16th Jan - Â 90??/CEFX130 Northbound 3 cars (a 3-pack double stack car, a loaded centerbeam, and a covered hopper!) - love that consist, it would have looked like a train set! Â Okay, they are the exception, that manifest/intermodal train normally loads 30 to 50 cars, and occasionally over 100... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Big trains do of course require big layouts, but as I see it, capturing at least parts of this sort of operation (& the 'crossover' ops between Hauling & Switching) is what the whole point of the Blog entry was, & my intention in starting a thread about it here. At last we seem to be on topic.... Â ...& thanks for the pics Dr G-F.; great stuff!! I've been thinking about how to do the big train. If you can't see both ends of the train at the same time, you can partially fool the viewer into thinking it is longer than it is. I think you need a certain amount of cars to pull the trick off, but I don't know how many that is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Where in the train do the haulers have the switchers? Are they always behind the train power or are they with the freight cars for each switching location? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Tim, Â Usually in with the power. Â Talking to the crew of the #570 which was leading the consist that day, they usually try to get the train blocked in Tucson yard, but on this occasion they hadn't been able to, and were doing the blocking in Casa Grande's tiny yard. Â The engineer said the motive power people try to assign comfort cabs to the lead unit, if possible and the switchers in behind, but (as in my pics) sometime the good old spartan cabs lead. Â Car blocking, in case you didn't know, is the pre-industry switching process of getting cars into order for further switching. Â In the case of the #570 crew, they were re-ordering the hauler's consist so that the switcher crew could peel off cuts of cars and deal them straight into the industry spots. Â Â This is something else I seldom see modelled, but my planned pike has provision for it. Â Â I've only seen the hauler changing out the switchers this once, never been lucky since! Â It was around 6.30 on a Tuesday morning, no idea if its always the same day, time of day etc. Â Interestingly, I recall it was already in the high 90s F that day. Â It reached 124F later, down at Shawmut.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Where in the train do the haulers have the switchers? Are they always behind the train power or are they with the freight cars for each switching location?  On the UP it would be against the rules to put engines scattered through the consist. All engines would be on the head end,  unless they are distributed power (not in this case) or set up as dead engines (brake gear set up to operate like a car and not an engine).  I am not certain the "setting out a switcher" then picking it back up again scenario is what is done. So far I haven't found any evidence of it. A switcher might be swapped out by a through freight to carry an engine due repairs or inspection, but I haven't found an example where switchers are set out and then the returning train picks them back up again. Not saying its never happened, but I haven't found a locomotive T-plan that was set up that way or train that has set out an engine short of destination in the last 3-4 days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I got the impression that the switchers weren't moved around in this fashion that frequently, but modellers selective compression could allow you to do it more frequently than in real life. After all, if you model somewhere that gets switched once a week, chances are you are going to compress several weeks worth into one operating session Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 That would be interesting to model, big train pulls up on your layout, switches out a loco and some cars and carries on. Loco switches then big train comes back and takes the loco and the swapped out cars away again. Dear Tim,  ...which I believe was the underlying operational capability Carl A was shooting for when he did a series of "switchers with bolt-on-loops" in the Small-Layout Scrapbook... http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page98/#shelfoval  Read thru and get down to the "switcher masterclass" section, and read thru the options with the concept firmly in mind that: - each of these will "switch nicely" as a standalone shelf, - but add dead-end staging off either end OR - add "the rest of the loop with some staging" and they can quite effectively model a "mid route switching area" with a passing parade of larger trains in action, and even open the door to "mainline train <> switchcrew/shortline interchange" operations...  Happy Modellong, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I've been thinking about how to do the big train. If you can't see both ends of the train at the same time, you can partially fool the viewer into thinking it is longer than it is. I think you need a certain amount of cars to pull the trick off, but I don't know how many that is Dear Tim,  The answer, esp if the visual foil is a typical 1-lane-each-way midwest roadway between a pair of grain elevators, is: - 1x loco (DPU?) - + 2x 90' worth of rollingstock - and around 4' of linear track  (and it helps if the cars are of typical drag-freight or unit-train style, where each car doesn't draw attention to itself from it's neighbors)  Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Â Car blocking, in case you didn't know, is the pre-industry switching process of getting cars into order for further switching. Â In the case of the #570 crew, they were re-ordering the hauler's consist so that the switcher crew could peel off cuts of cars and deal them straight into the industry spots. Â Â This is something else I seldom see modelled, but my planned pike has provision for it. Â Â Dear Dr G-F, Â Maybe another offshoot topic for another thread, but if we assume that the warehouse/dock manager doesn't even know where he wants each car spotted on his multi-carspot dock until the train gets to the warehouse, how is it that the originating classification yard can "block the cars correctly" for a given industry? Â Or, are we interpretting "block the cars" differently? IE "Block all cars for a given industry together, without respect to actual carspot order" OR "Block all cars for a given industry together, where the cars for a given industry "block" are futhur pre-marshalled to be in "pre-determined carspot order" Â Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 It occurs to me that 'car blocking' as an operation in itself might be seldom modelled because - thinking purely in "UK Exhibition" terms, it might look pretty aimless - just "reshuffling" cars - to onlookers, who may not stay around long enough to see the point of the excercise (if the destination industry is also modelled). Of course, in UK Exhibition terms, even if it was blindingly obvious what is happening (as certain members here contend it is) the fact it was happening on a "Foreign" layout would cause many punters to simply pass it by.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Dear F-unit,  Aye, "...if it's not <insert given personally-preferred prototype/outline/geographical location/gauge/motive-power-format here>, I'm not interested..." (but then again, such where-one-chooses-to-spend-their-time "selective vision" is everywhere in life, it's part of being human... ;-) ).  Imagine if you were presenting a very well done modelgenic GWR branch (pannier tanks ahoy!) somewhere at a US "exhibition"?(I'm sure Paul (SignalMaintainer) and Ian Holmes would have response to this... ;-) ).  Just more supporting rationale to the idea:If you are going to present at an exhibition, - put your best-foot modelling forward(good appropriate presentation, of the models, the layout, and the operators, pays!)- get "can you find?" and "punter education" boards out the front,(an educated and theme-aware punter is an astute and appreciative punter,and info boards allow them to get "up to speed" without forcing them into uncomfy conversation or situations)- and preferrably get a "front-person" out in the crowd who is not operating the layout,who is right on-the-spot to field those "I've read the Info board, I wanna know more" questions, and "work the crowd"(Again, if the punters feel engaged and educated, they are in a far better position to appreciate the effort and fine-details of the layout being viewed...)  Happy Modellimg,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Interesting ideas Prof, but your person at the front would only be subjected to questions such as "is this 009...?" (no, it's HO, the most popular scale in the world), "Where can I buy an American car?", "can you explain DCC to me please", and my own personal favourites, "do the overhead wires work...?" and "do they have electric trains in America...?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Dear 298,  Must be the couple of hundred years away from the Old Country,our average exhibition punter down here tends to ask more inventive questions than that...(or maybe the "Can You Find?" and "Info" boards weed out such basics before they get to the actual human... ;-) )  Happy Modeling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr  PS I give each of my show-layout operators a crash-course in the "top 5 details" of the layout before the general-public doors-open. With that, and their general level of model RRing nous, they tend to be able to handle most questions "on the fly"... ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmporiaSub Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Often the person out the front gets ignored completely, and they still insist on asking the person actually operating the layout..... (Unless you're the person out the front AND operating the layout!).  Back on topic, using road power to switch an industrial spur does mean an excuse for all those heritage liveried units....!!  Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 It occurs to me that 'car blocking' as an operation in itself might be seldom modelled because - thinking purely in "UK Exhibition" terms, it might look pretty aimless - just "reshuffling" cars - to onlookers, who may not stay around long enough to see the point of the excercise (if the destination industry is also modelled). Of course, in UK Exhibition terms, even if it was blindingly obvious what is happening (as certain members here contend it is) the fact it was happening on a "Foreign" layout would cause many punters to simply pass it by.... Â Oddly enough it came up at the weekend, as our setup had a classification yard which played host to 3 locals, plus the "staging" transfer freight - in an exhibition scenario what you wanted was for the local to get a hustle on and get out of the yard onto the layout, so there was something going on "over there" whilst clearing up some space for other moves in the yard... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Interesting ideas Prof, but your person at the front would only be subjected to questions such as "is this 009...?" (no, it's HO, the most popular scale in the world), "Where can I buy an American car?", "can you explain DCC to me please", and my own personal favourites, "do the overhead wires work...?" and "do they have electric trains in America...?" Â Our favourite is "wow, never seen anyone model Australian railways before...." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I wonder what made them think it was Aussie? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 It was from somebody stood in front of the giant US flag we'd put on the fascia... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2014 I have had 'that must be the Canary Islands with all those palm trees' whilst standing next to the Stars and Stripes flag hanging on the layout!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 >swerve<  Back on topic, more six axle switcher goodness, this time the West Colton locals, circa 2005.     only four axles, but a deservedly famous LA switcher, in 2005 sitting at the Colton Crossing wye   a four set of SD60s making up either a trip to Trona, or to Creal, 2006   current (2012) Colton switchers, SD38+SD40-2+SD40-2, being driven by the engineer standing on the footboards of the SD38 with a r/c chestpack   Colton Hauler power (2012) SD60Ms   Colton r/c switcher set - the guy on the footboard is the engineer, operating the consist remotely. Can you get HO scale engineers with r/c to stick on your model foot boards?        Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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