The Bigbee Line Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 You can....but if someone takes your researched and authenticated rare occurrence as verbatim and tries to build a layout around such a scenario (especially when their only inspiration comes from layouts on the UK circuit), they're doing themselves an injustice. It reminds me of my 8' long GWR branchline I built as a teenager, and tried to run a King on. It's a big step to realise that some locos in a collection had better stay in the display cabinet. Agree...! But I still think Lance's concept should be operated by 4 axle power, something that is seen as the darling of the fleet. There no hope of me running my SAL Centipede then........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2014 There no hope of me running my SAL Centipede then........ I know some one who would love to run a Centipede on ROUNDHOUSE if you are ever around when we have that layoit out. Might not fit on the turntable though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Taking this to the extreme would be to model JUST the engine terminal and service tracks. two or three ready tracks, a couple inbound tracks and a service track for fuel, water and sand. Have a line up of engines coming inbound on certain trains and a line up of trains due out in the next shift with there hp and special equipment needs. The layout operator plays roundhouse foreman and plans which inbound power protects which outbound trains. The inbound power is on a line up (schedule) inbound, arriving at various times. When a set of power comes in, its serviced and engines are added or subtracted from the consist as required by the outbound line up. For a little spice, when its time to bring in a consist, roll a die, if its even the scheduled power arrives, if its odd the scheduled inbound train is late and the next set of power comes in, and the late set falls back to the next slot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Boucher Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Maybe, but there is always an exception. SD26's were around in the 1990s! http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2672342 cheers, Mal Not just 26's, also a few 45's in the early 90s... http://www.flickr.com/photos/50387839@N03/9007892066 http://www.flickr.com/photos/50387839@N03/9006710415 http://www.flickr.com/photos/50387839@N03/9006710321 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Maybe, but there is always an exception. SD26's were around in the 1990s! http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2672342 cheers, Mal Got to love that ratty SD26 - superb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 20, 2014 Building a modern diesel depot has crossed my mind a few times. However when we do shows most of our operators will only do the switching bit on the layout and refuse to do the roundhouse as they find it boring to operate. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Got to love that ratty SD26 - superb. I see your ratty and raise you rattier http://photos.nerail.org/s/?p=129144 Edit: a better pic http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2653509 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouser Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I just like big loco's, probably something freudian there! Centipedes.... love em! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Taking this to the extreme would be to model JUST the engine terminal and service tracks. two or three ready tracks, a couple inbound tracks and a service track for fuel, water and sand. Have a line up of engines coming inbound on certain trains and a line up of trains due out in the next shift with there hp and special equipment needs. The layout operator plays roundhouse foreman and plans which inbound power protects which outbound trains. The inbound power is on a line up (schedule) inbound, arriving at various times. When a set of power comes in, its serviced and engines are added or subtracted from the consist as required by the outbound line up. For a little spice, when its time to bring in a consist, roll a die, if its even the scheduled power arrives, if its odd the scheduled inbound train is late and the next set of power comes in, and the late set falls back to the next slot. Dear Dave, See earlier comments RE Carl A's "Big Boy on a Micro" (and the popularity of "MPD"/"TMD" layouts, where "MPD" is UK diesel-era speak for "diesel locomotive service area") :-) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Building a modern diesel depot has crossed my mind a few times. However when we do shows most of our operators will only do the switching bit on the layout and refuse to do the roundhouse as they find it boring to operate. Ian Dear Roundhouse, Instinctive thoughts: 1 - The difference between "engaging" and "boring" is frequently only the stones-throw factor of context. If the moves have a backstory or context the operators can buy-into, then they tend to be more willing, or even enjoy performing the tasks. 2 - Said operators need to be very clear about their role in an exhibition/show. They are there first and foremost to keep the display moving for the benefit and enjoyment of a paying general public crowd. Believe it or not, anecdotal evidence suggests GP crowds do actually enjoy the sight of locos being turned/traversed in a "MPD". Whether the operator "likes running the turntable" or not is a secondary issue. Related example. On one of my previous On30 logging layouts, I had an animated logging winch/highlead system. During the build stage, I pondered whether to built it as a "fully manual drive" or "semi-auto" animated unit. On asking my regular show crew, the overwhelming response was "as a manual drive, it will be too complex for us to operate, and therefore we won't". Taking this onboard, I opted to build it as a "semi-auto" animation, with manual "E-stop" slap-buttons should anything go amiss. With this compromise made, my operators agreed to keep this eye-catching, crowd-engaging, layout-story-critical piece of model animation running, even if I as the layout builder was not "on stand" to personally shepherd the highlead operation. Possibly, if the turntable/MPD area is not actually needed to maintain fluid motion of the layout show-op-sequence, (IE the "layout story" and physical op sequence does not rely on the road locos being swapped on/off-train via the roundhouse), deployment of a NCE MiniPanel or similar (to allow on-the-fly switching between "programmed auto animated op sequence" and "full-manual" ops), and dedicated roster of "MPD locos" for the "auto animated mode", (avoids "runaway locos" when the Minipanel sends a command to loco XYZ, which is no longer within the confines of the "animated MPD area") might be a way to have the eye-catching continuous movement of locos around/thru the MPD/turntable area, while not subjecting the show-crew to the terribly onerous task of having to run it manually??? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I always get the feeling from Mickey's posts that he has "discovered" how to wind everyone up etc., etc., etc. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2014 Dear Roundhouse, Instinctive thoughts: 1 - The difference between "engaging" and "boring" is frequently only the stones-throw factor of context. If the moves have a backstory or context the operators can buy-into, then they tend to be more willing, or even enjoy performing the tasks. 2 - Said operators need to be very clear about their role in an exhibition/show. They are there first and foremost to keep the display moving for the benefit and enjoyment of a paying general public crowd. Believe it or not, anecdotal evidence suggests GP crowds do actually enjoy the sight of locos being turned/traversed in a "MPD". Whether the operator "likes running the turntable" or not is a secondary issue. Related example. On one of my previous On30 logging layouts, I had an animated logging winch/highlead system. During the build stage, I pondered whether to built it as a "fully manual drive" or "semi-auto" animated unit. On asking my regular show crew, the overwhelming response was "as a manual drive, it will be too complex for us to operate, and therefore we won't". Taking this onboard, I opted to build it as a "semi-auto" animation, with manual "E-stop" slap-buttons should anything go amiss. With this compromise made, my operators agreed to keep this eye-catching, crowd-engaging, layout-story-critical piece of model animation running, even if I as the layout builder was not "on stand" to personally shepherd the highlead operation. Possibly, if the turntable/MPD area is not actually needed to maintain fluid motion of the layout show-op-sequence, (IE the "layout story" and physical op sequence does not rely on the road locos being swapped on/off-train via the roundhouse), deployment of a NCE MiniPanel or similar (to allow on-the-fly switching between "programmed auto animated op sequence" and "full-manual" ops), and dedicated roster of "MPD locos" for the "auto animated mode", (avoids "runaway locos" when the Minipanel sends a command to loco XYZ, which is no longer within the confines of the "animated MPD area") might be a way to have the eye-catching continuous movement of locos around/thru the MPD/turntable area, while not subjecting the show-crew to the terribly onerous task of having to run it manually??? Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr we have some who thoroughly enjoy operating the MPD section so we let those who prefer switching, switch but we cant always have the right balance of operators at a show. the turntable is the one thing that attracts crowds. that was evident at the St Neots show a few weekends ago despite the layout now being seven years old. Would be nice to automate but that would require a huge amount of alteration especially to the turntable. ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Dear Ian, I dunno,- a TVD "Train shuttle" with the turntable wired thru a reversing unit as the "intermediate station stop" position. http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/products/trainshuttle.html - and the mid-station delay set sooooo long that making a track <> track rotation change+alignment is easily accomplished = job done... ;-)(If you don't want something more complex, like the aforementioned NCE MiniPanel style system...) Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 21, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2014 I am sure it's possible. We use Digitrax. I would have to add block detection etc and connect up to some software but the Walthers turntable control would need a lot of changing. It's the older non DCC control verdion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairb Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Not just 26's, also a few 45's in the early 90s... The SD45s ran a lot longer than tthat. I was lucky enough to see one of the (perhaps the ..) last Guilford SD45s at East Deerfield in Oct 2007. A few weeks later its' engine blew and it was withdrawn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I always get the feeling from Lance that he had "discovered" how railways actually work and tells it like he is being really kind in letting us all know....... His "views" are only really valid in the US and that is obviously his target audience. It was pointed out to him ages ago that us Brits are already way ahead in seeing an achievable dream on 6 sq foot instead of 600... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmporiaSub Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 His "views" are only really valid in the US and that is obviously his target audience. It was pointed out to him ages ago that us Brits are already way ahead in seeing an achievable dream on 6 sq foot instead of 600... I agree, but he also puts across what is involved in modern switching layouts, which is different between the US and Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielB Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Lance creates some truly beautiful models. No matter what peoples personal opinions of him are, no one can deny that, and anyone who does is probably deluded! That said, I find his articles on replicating real railroad practice interesting as a Brit as I have no idea how the Americans do it. I just don't get why people find him so polarizing? He's trying to help people achieve a high standard of modelling and is trying to be helpful regarding other aspects of the hobby as well. This is why people never go out of their way to help each other - because those that do get ridicule and hate for no real reason. It's actually pretty depressing. At any rate, lets keep the discussion of road switchers and such going as it's actually quite fascinating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Just as a little side-line on the thoughts of big engines versus little engines, in purely length terms the modern gen-sets that Atlas does are pretty much the same length as an SD45, surprised me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Quite. not realy, i just happen to think Lance doesnt tell anything that isnt pretty obvious - discuss the post not the poster Actually as others have pointed out above he's is very good at outlining the small operations of a switching line that are not immediately obvious to people, particularly those 2,000 miles away. As for the models themselves he has certainly got me thinking that filling every available space with track is not necessarily the way to go. I like his spacious feel to many urban environments. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Y'all may be underestimating the switching available in a service track. I'm not talking about just turning engines and putting them in a roundhouse or shop. My concept wouldn't need a shop or a turntable. It might be that you don't run that many multi unit consists. I have 2 GP, 1 C44 and 2 SD70 on hand. I have 4 sets of power coming in. 1 set of 2 GP, 1 set of 3 SD70, a set of 3 SD70 and 1 GP and a set of 2 C44. The inbound set of 2 GP's needs the lead GP cut off and a replacement added to the set. The 3 SD70- 1 GP set has the middle SD and the GP bad order that neet to be cut off. You need to build outbound: 2 GP double ended set 3 C44 facing West 3 SD70 facing west built with the first 2 units facing forward. 3 SD70 with the leader facing east and the 2 GP and 1 SD70 bad orders on the west end. As general foreman you have to pick which units from which trains you want on which outbound cuts. It can get even more complicated if you have to return foreign units home, make sure trains have a cab signal leaders, mix up the direction the trains come in from and depart, put specific types of engines on specific services, add excess going to outlying points, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Gilbert Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 he is very good at making models, of that ther is no doubt, but part from that he is only telling people how railways work, which is obvious to anyone that actually looks at things So what is wrong with " telling people how railways work" we can all still learn To me, DCC is the most obvious way to control a layout but while at exhibitions I spend at least 25% of my time explaining to people how it works, because its been bigged up by others and its put them off or they are scared of it. I'm always amazed at the number of keyboard modellers out there who think they know it all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 he is very good at making models, of that ther is no doubt, but part from that he is only telling people how railways work, which is obvious to anyone that actually looks at things It isn't always obvious to those 2000 miles or more away on the other side of the Atlantic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Do keyboard modellers make really small keyboards? like about a inch or less long? Sorry if I think Lance isnt as good as some people seem to do...there are plenty of well informed people on here about railway ops who dont seem to feel the need to write blog post after blog post about it, jsut saying like You make a pejorative assumption with reference to having a '.....need to write blog posts after blog post'. Because someone writes a regular blog, it does not necessarily follow that they have a 'need' to do so as though compensating for some personal inadequacy, or alternatively, doing so because they have an unshakeable belief that there is only their way of doing things. It is quite plausible for someone to have altruistic reasons and to write a blog because they are enthusiastic and want to share that enthusiasm. I enjoy reading Lance's blog in the same way that I enjoy following certain threads on here. The fact that I may not subscribe to every point of view, or would do things in the same way as others, or have a particular interest in some esoteric aspect of railways, does not justify me criticising the author. If someone doesn't like a blog, no-one is forcing them to read it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 things like its not the number of sidings, its the number of "spots" where wagons go should be obvious to anyone slightly sentient regardless of where they are.... This i tthe same Lance who mentioned in his blog that kids should work at "fast food restaurants" for their possible future connections.....aint coal mines good enough these days I fear you are erecting 'straw men' in order to knock them down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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