Hornby's Best Ever Models

[SRman]

I have only just caught up with this thread, even though it goes back a couple of years.

I have to say I agree with a good many of the choices here. Hornby have produced many fine models in the last decade or more, and even made subtle improvements on some after the initial releases (the Merchant Navy comes to mind here).

There have been a couple of "failures" - by that I mean less successful models or those dogged with errors, not necessarily sales failures - such as the 4 VEP, which did not quite capture the real 'face' of the units and had a few running problems reported as well. The 2 BIL seems to have been very successful (I have quite a few of them myself), although I don't think they quite make the "best models" category. The moulded roof vents are fairly obvious, in spite of what Hornby's press releases tried to make us believe, although I have to say the moulded on door handles and grab rails are entirely successful, IMHO. The 2 HAL also falls into this category.

So what are the best models? I have quite a few Merchant Navy locos and West Country / Battle of Britain and N15 variations, and multiples of the Q1. Together with the Schools, T9, 700 and S15, all look and run superbly. The Black 5 hasn't quite kept up with the looks of the newer models but is still a good looker and runner.

For the diesels and electrics, I like the class 50s but the front end was never quite right around the windscreens, so that drops a few points. Likewise the newer class 30 / 31 models aren't quite there. I cannot fault the class 56 and 60, though (apart from the recessed fan grilles on the 56), and, of course the 08 / 09 shunters. I have a bit of a weakness for the latter, from both Hornby and Bachmann, but the Hornby model has the edge on fine detail. Again, all of these types run silently and with superb smoothness. The Brighton Belle is also very good.

For coaches, the Pullmans in various guises and styles are excellent models, as are the Maunsell coaches.

Of the types I don't own, I do admire their Britannia and Standard 4MT models. I like the look of the Stanier 4MT tanks too, even though I have no use for them, and the same applies to the LNER O1 and A1/A3 models. I own a P2 but that used the 'design clever' technology so loses a few points here and there.

In short, how does one choose any one model over any of the others from that lot (and I have probably missed a few good 'uns, too). I think Hornby have generally been on the right track (no pun intended) but occasionally strayed from the path of excellence. There are plenty of very, very good models to choose from there.

 

[MatthewCarty]

I have only just caught up with this thread, even though it goes back a couple of years.

 

I have to say I agree with a good many of the choices here. Hornby have produced many fine models in the last decade or more, and even made subtle improvements on some after the initial releases (the Merchant Navy comes to mind here).

 

There have been a couple of "failures" - by that I mean less successful models or those dogged with errors, not necessarily sales failures - such as the 4 VEP, which did not quite capture the real 'face' of the units and had a few running problems reported as well. The 2 BIL seems to have been very successful (I have quite a few of them myself), although I don't think they quite make the "best models" category. The moulded roof vents are fairly obvious, in spite of what Hornby's press releases tried to make us believe, although I have to say the moulded on door handles and grab rails are entirely successful, IMHO. The 2 HAL also falls into this category.

 

So what are the best models? I have quite a few Merchant Navy locos and West Country / Battle of Britain and N15 variations, and multiples of the Q1. Together with the Schools, T9, 700 and S15, all look and run superbly. The Black 5 hasn't quite kept up with the looks of the newer models but is still a good looker and runner.

 

For the diesels and electrics, I like the class 50s but the front end was never quite right around the windscreens, so that drops a few points. Likewise the newer class 30 / 31 models aren't quite there. I cannot fault the class 56 and 60, though (apart from the recessed fan grilles on the 56), and, of course the 08 / 09 shunters. I have a bit of a weakness for the latter, from both Hornby and Bachmann, but the Hornby model has the edge on fine detail. Again, all of these types run silently and with superb smoothness. The Brighton Belle is also very good.

 

For coaches, the Pullmans in various guises and styles are excellent models, as are the Maunsell coaches.

 

Of the types I don't own, I do admire their Britannia and Standard 4MT models. I like the look of the Stanier 4MT tanks too, even though I have no use for them, and the same applies to the LNER O1 and A1/A3 models. I own a P2 but that used the 'design clever' technology so loses a few points here and there.

 

In short, how does one choose any one model over any of the others from that lot (and I have probably missed a few good 'uns, too). I think Hornby have generally been on the right track (no pun intended) but occasionally strayed from the path of excellence. There are plenty of very, very good models to choose from there.

 

 

I would agree with you that Hornby have many good models, but it is the lack of clear information of which brand some models fall under which is where they lose points. At the moment there 2.5 categories for models with the following features:

 

Main range: high level of detail, sprung metal buffers, separately fitted parts, brass axle bearings, high level of livery application, cab window glazing etc.

(Design Clever: shape of model correct, plastic buffers, no brass axle bearings, lower quality livery application, no cab glazing)

Railroad: general shape of the loco, little detailing

 

I put design clever in brackets, as there are really only a few locos which fit into this category, and even then do not always have the same specification. I think the list is: Peppercorn A1, Duke of Gloucester, Hall, P2, Croisti Boiler 9F. These are above most railroad models, but far off the main range models. However there are still over locos which hover in-between the main range and the design clever locos. These are the Star (no brass axle bearings), and the heavy tanks (no sprung buffers).

 

If Hornby made the specification of the two main ranges clear on their website, as well as giving the specification of the Design Clever era locos separately, they would please a lot of people. As they have already fitted brass axle bearings to the heavy tanks, why can't they finish off the job of getting rid of the floaters by fitting brass axle bearings to the Star, and sprung buffers to the heavy tanks. Then if they kept to the two different ranges, they would make a lot of people happy, and start to get rid of the doubt that surrounds what you are actually getting when you let go of around £150 for a main range model.

[toboldlygo]

Wire handrails and separately fitted smoke-box dart - surely this can't a be a Hornby Hall?

 

[robmcg]

Lovely piece of work, toboldlygo.

 

I have gone against all principles and actually bought a Hall, as well as my Hornby RR version with small Great Western tender (a lovely model in my opinion) , one in a blue box... 7904, which although weathered by the factory I suspect does not hold a candle to your model of 4955.

 

At least it's not a Black 5.... !  

 

The blue-box medicine has side-effects, I have also bought two G2a 0-8-0s....

Edited April 3, 2016 by robmcg

[robmcg]

Actually comparing the photos of Hornby's main range Hall as done by toboldlygo and the modified Hall by Bachmann reminds me of the comparisons some years ago between Standard 4-6-0 4MTs   ...  something in the quality of fine small detail which the Hornby for better or worse got more precisely. 

[toboldlygo]

Lovely piece of work, toboldlygo.

 

I have gone against all principles and actually bought a Hall, as well as my Hornby RR version with small Great Western tender (a lovely model in my opinion) , one in a blue box... 7904, which although weathered by the factory I suspect does not hold a candle to your model of 4955.

 

At least it's not a Black 5.... !  

 

The blue-box medicine has side-effects, I have also bought two G2a 0-8-0s....

I have a Blue A4 problem... they keep multiplying

[robmcg]

I have a Blue A4 problem... they keep multiplying

 

Something like this?   I too have bought a second blue version, the sound one 60018, which was being almost given away the other day, without sound. Well, you've got to be kind, don't you...?

 

[robmcg]

A blue box companion to Hornby Kings and Castles...  notwithstanding the excellent Hornby Hall... which I must dig out for a side-by-side comparison.  I have little knowledge of the Hall class... much to learn,  7904 'Fountains Hall' looks good in lined BR black though.

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

A blue box companion to Hornby Kings and Castles...  notwithstanding the excellent Hornby Hall... which I must dig out for a side-by-side comparison.  I have little knowledge of the Hall class... much to learn,  7904 'Fountains Hall' looks good in lined BR black though.

 

7904_hall_GWR_portrait1_2abcde_crop1_r1200a.jpg

 

A pity then about the inaccurate representation of the front end of the loco.....Bachmann's howler in spades.They produced a Hybrid Hall not a Modified Hall.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...In short, how does one choose any one model over any of the others from that lot ...

 

 One way is to generate a reasonably objective rating, using a scheme designed to discriminate. Having devised such things for commercial purposes, I operate one for my own amusement on RTR and it 'shakes out' the best from the rest pretty neatly. With an LNER and BR/ER steam habit, the best UK RTR steam loco I own is Hornby's B1, by a fairly short head over a group containing their K1, L1, O1, M7, 28xx, Britannia, and the Bachmann C1 and 9F. (Plenty of models from both ranges I haven't looked at; let alone evaluated, which requires ownership to enable the full rating scheme to be applied.)

[robmcg]

A pity then about the inaccurate representation of the front end of the loco.....Bachmann's howler in spades.They produced a Hybrid Hall not a Modified Hall.

 

Could you describe the main errors please? Suddenly the Hornby Hall is looking better....  

Edited April 4, 2016 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

Could you describe the main errors please? Suddenly the Hornby Hall is looking better....

Front running plate should be squared off not sloped . Lacks baffle plate between leading bogie.

 

Any photo/image you can Google will demonstrate the point.One Bachmann model I will not purchase because the inaccuracy is all too obvious. You could always spot the difference between a 49XX etc. and 6959-7929 a long way off because of the front end 'face' of the latter.......and in my spotting days I saw every single Hall and its Modified sisters.

 

Yes,I have a soft spot for the Hornby version,despite its Railroad crudities.It runs better than Bachmann's version for starters.The definitive Modified ( 6959 series) Hall is some way off it appears.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Ian Hargrave

[bigherb]

Could you describe the main errors please? Suddenly the Hornby Hall is looking better....  

This the thread on the modified hall there is also a problem with the boiler band over the firebox.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53622-Bachmann-retooled-modified-hall-2012-what-can-we-expect/page-12

[robmcg]

This the thread on the modified hall there is also a problem with the boiler band over the firebox.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53622-Bachmann-retooled-modified-hall-2012-what-can-we-expect/page-12

 

Thankyou bigherb, I hadn't really studied the later versions.

 

In the meantime, since this is about Hornby, here is my Adderley Hall again....  gasp horror choke with Bachmann Colletts..

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

Thankyou bigherb, I hadn't really studied the later versions.

 

In the meantime, since this is about Hornby, here is my Adderley Hall again....  gasp horror choke with Bachmann Colletts..

 

4091_GWR_Hall_portrait3_1930s_4a_r1200.jpg

Rob....those look uncomfortably like Hornby Hawksworths...

[robmcg]

A pity then about the inaccurate representation of the front end of the loco.....Bachmann's howler in spades.They produced a Hybrid Hall not a Modified Hall.

 

When you look at it from any angle around the front it certainly stands out, the lack of front bogie baffle plate in particular, and with the dramas around over-priced R3205 Rood Ashton Hall, I'm thinking a pair scissors and black photo album paper might be the answer for my Bachmann 7904..

 

The carriages are in fact Bachmanns, I took the pic over a year ago and even I cannot get new models that quickly!

[Ian Hargrave]

When you look at it from any angle around the front it certainly stands out, the lack of front bogie baffle plate in particular, and with the dramas around over-priced R3205 Rood Ashton Hall, I'm thinking a pair scissors and black photo album paper might be the answer for my Bachmann 7904..

 

The carriages are in fact Bachmanns, I took the pic over a year ago and even I cannot get new models that quickly![/quote

 

Adderley Hall is an excellent bargain....great with the new Colletts.A rake of six behind the tender makes a great Paddington-Weymouth via Westbury express in the late 1930's.

[robmcg]

Adderley Hall is an excellent bargain....great with the new Colletts.A rake of six behind the tender makes a great Paddington-Weymouth via Westbury express in the late 1930's.

 

Indeed we have never had it so good. I have bought 4 each of the Hornby GWR/BR bow-end carriages, my diorama won't take more, I have to imagine 6. It does have a nice symmetry LH brake-3rd, 3rd, LH-compo, RH-compo, 3rd, RH brake-3rd...    though I was under the impression that the sets were quite often subject to additions and subtractions particularly in later years?

 

Would a Paddington-Weymouth via Westbury train be a Castle job or a Hall?  Or King?  With extra carriages in summer? or two sets of 6? 

[Ian Hargrave]

Indeed we have never had it so good. I have bought 4 each of the Hornby GWR/BR bow-end carriages, my diorama won't take more, I have to imagine 6. It does have a nice symmetry LH brake-3rd, 3rd, LH-compo, RH-compo, 3rd, RH brake-3rd...    though I was under the impression that the sets were quite often subject to additions and subtractions particularly in later years?

 

Would a Paddington-Weymouth via Westbury train be a Castle job or a Hall?  Or King?  With extra carriages in summer? or two sets of 6? 

A Westbury Hall turn with dining car portion as far as Westbury,six the normal load from there to Weymouth.Strengtheners added at weekends.Castles did work down from Westbury to Weymouth  but Kings did not as they did not have clearance.So six is sufficient.

[robmcg]

A Westbury Hall turn with dining car portion as far as Westbury,six the normal load from there to Weymouth.Strengtheners added at weekends.Castles did work down from Westbury to Weymouth  but Kings did not as they did not have clearance.So six is sufficient.

 

I faintly remember a pic on one of the GWR coastal resort towns a single line with a King class...   certainly it wasn't Weymouth.

Ah yes, Paignton to Kingswear.   'Branch Line Album' by P B Whitehouse 1962 Ian Allan  A pic of 6016 in June 1960   the book doesn't have page numbers beyond p33 it's about p40-something...

[toboldlygo]

Before something North Eastern in Blue looking rather grubby makes it's presence felt, something Southern this way comes.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Before something North Eastern in Blue looking rather grubby makes it's presence felt, something Southern this way comes.

 

30841_lhfan.jpg

 

May the filth be with you!

[Hroth]

Before something North Eastern in Blue looking rather grubby makes it's presence felt, something Southern this way comes.

 

30841_lhfan.jpg

Ohhh - a poor-six-oh!

 

(dons dirty loco and vanishes)

[No Decorum]

Could you describe the main errors please? Suddenly the Hornby Hall is looking better....  

Quite apart from the detail errors, I would expect a newly-tooled steam locomotive these days to have tender pick-ups and provision for a speaker in the tender. Had I known at purchase time what I know now, I would not have bought a Bachmann Modified Hall and I have never been tempted by the Hornby Hall either. I would have been content with my ancient models.

[Ian Hargrave]

Quite apart from the detail errors, I would expect a newly-tooled steam locomotive these days to have tender pick-ups and provision for a speaker in the tender. Had I known at purchase time what I know now, I would not have bought a Bachmann Modified Hall and I have never been tempted by the Hornby Hall either. I would have been content with my ancient models.

Well it depends upon whose version of 'newly tooled' is correct.My personal judgement is 'newly-tweaked'.....by someone/some persons who took a collective eye off the ball a year previous to its eventual release and rather than completely re-tool decided to rush a replacement to market in the form of this emasculation with inevitable consequences.

Tender pickups...not a Barwell 'thing'.Some models are better than others....the Hall not being one of them.The present chassis and configuration are now 12 years old. Frankly,I am content with 'none of the above' which includes the ancient split chassis version. The Hornby varietal is miles from perfect I know but in my experience the two I have run better than my Bachmann examples. Sad that a classic steam loco does not yet have its proper representation in OO gauge form.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Ian Hargrave