Mixed Livery DMUs

[hmrspaul]

While EMU sets are likely to be seen coupled together in different liveries (tripple unit Blue/Grey - Jaffa cake - NSE class 309 pictures exist for example) I cannot recall ever seeing a mixed set.

 

Mixed DMUs still exist in recent times. 2-car 'Anglia' 170 with a 'One' liveried centre car added is a nice prototype one to model since there is no ready to run 'Anglia' liveried centre car.

I certainly agree that when the lovely SR green EMUs were repainted in the appalling blue I don't recollect seeing a mix within a set. I'm no expert on SR EMUs but did see and travel on a lot of them in the mid and later 1960s and have the impression that set control and maintenance was very vigorous. The ABC's of the time were able to provide set numbers with all of the coach numbers year in and year out with minimal alteration apart from when accident damage occured.

 

Paul

Sorry, I thought then, and still do, that the plain blue on a suburban coach was dreadful. It was a pity that the chromatic blue used on the BRCW type 3 and Peaks did not become the standard livery.

[Gwiwer]

Many EMU types are (or were) semi-permanently coupled within the units.  Older SR types such as Bil, Hal, Sub, Lav and Nol by three-links while more recently a bar coupler has been used.  That makes the units a little more difficult and time-consuming to split and re-join which in turn has meant that most were repainted as a whole unit rather than piecemeal.  Thus it follows that you would not normally have seen mixed liveries within one EMU set.

 

DMU sets were mostly screw coupled IIRC making them easier to split and in many cases were not assigned permanent formations anyway as EMU classes are.  Some depots were in the habit of simply assembling as many cars as were required for service into appropriate formations on a daily or weekly basis.

 

Mixed-livery EMU sets have however appeared as a result of temporary re-formations (some of which were intended to be or became permanent in the event) caused by accidents and when one good unit could be made from two.

 

8Vab 8001 (itself a hybrid of three 4Vep units and a loose-coupled buffet car) began life with seven blue coaches and a blue-grey buffet before its mid-life b/g repaint.   And of course on the SR there were the 6Pul and later the short-lived 4Pul units which included a Pullman car among the green vehicles.

 

On London Underground the changeover from red to unpainted aluminium bodies resulted in some trains on the District Line being formed of a mix of red and "silver" stock.  Some of the "silver" units were in fact repainted from red as the majority of the R-stock (cars from R38 to R47 which were all delivered painted red) was eventually repainted from red to an off-white shade approximating to the unpainted cars of the later R59 delivery in an attempt to match them.  Strictly speaking each unit was in the same livery but the appearance of two "silver" cars between the red ones gave a different impression.

 

No other types ran in both red and "silver" other than the prototype 1960 Cravens cars with converted Standard stock trailers used on the Woodford - Hainault shuttles but as they ran singly as 4-car (later 3-car with a 1938 stock trailer) sets no mixed-livery train occurred.  All other stocks remained red or were delivered unpainted.  Only in more recent years with the renewed application of paint and the half-life refurbishment of many types have trains (but not individual units) of mixed livery again been seen on the Underground.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Gwiwer

[jonny777]

I thought that this photo was worth a link - a three car dmu with each car in a different livery,

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5922963161/in/set-72157627038739375

 

 

Would look good as a model.

[robertcwp]

 

On London Underground the changeover from red to unpainted aluminium bodies resulted in some trains on the District Line being formed of a mix of red and "silver" stock.  Some of the "silver" units were in fact repainted from red as the majority of the R-stock (cars from R38 to R47 which were all delivered painted red) was eventually repainted from red to an off-white shade approximating to the unpainted cars of the later R59 delivery in an attempt to match them.  Strictly speaking each unit was in the same livery but the appearance of two "silver" cars between the red ones gave a different impression.

 

No other types ran in both red and "silver" other than the prototype 1960 Cravens cars with converted Standard stock trailers used on the Woodford - Hainault shuttles but as they ran singly as 4-car (later 3-car with a 1938 stock trailer) sets no mixed-livery train occurred.  All other stocks remained red or were delivered unpainted.  Only in more recent years with the renewed application of paint and the half-life refurbishment of many types have trains (but not individual units) of mixed livery again been seen on the Underground.

1935 flat-ended units ran in red then later in painted silver livery although not in mixed sets.

1935-Stock_Ongar_22-5-65 by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

The shade of red changed too as 1938 Stock that received an extra-heavy overhaul ran in bus red rather than the more traditional train red, the latter being a bit darker.

 

I recall a 4 EPB running in the 1980s with three in blue/grey and one in blue (a trailer).

 

See also this photo on Flickr: https://flic.kr/p/ooEGBy

 

Mixed livery DMUs were common and there were also mixed livery DEMUs, and even mixed livery Blue Pullmans.

 

3R_1202_DorkingTown_6-78 by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

Blue Pullman Paddington 5.69 by George of Dufton, on Flickr

Edited February 14, 2015 by robertcwp

[jonny777]

I've never seen a CIG with a 4-VEP driving vehicle before. Presumably it must have been a very temporary emergency fix by the depot.

[robertcwp]

And this one:

 

4-PEP_HamptonCourt_Jun-76 by robertcwp, on Flickr

[robertcwp]

I've never seen a CIG with a 4-VEP driving vehicle before. Presumably it must have been a very temporary emergency fix by the depot.

Mixed formations happened from time to time.  I think there might have been a unit that was half-CIG and half-Vep at one time, possibly numbered 7700.

[robertcwp]

On the Underground, R Stock liveries were complex.  The vast majority of cars, including most of the R49 aluminium ones, were red to start with.  One car was turned out experimentally in unpainted aluminium finish and the cars it ran with were painted silver to match.  The original unpainted car is second in this set, all others being painted steel cars:

 

R_Silver_SouthKen_2-9-58 by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

Some R49 stock was turned out to form a complete set in unpainted aluminium.  The later R59 cars were also unpainted and ran with silver-painted R38 driving cars (which were steel and were converted from Q stock trailers).

 

When silver was standardised as the livery, the painted cars were initially painted in an aluminium colour but it was either too expensive or did not wear well, hence the shift to a very pale grey which looked off-white, although the unpainted cars remained thus, including the R49 driving motor which is preserved at the LT Museum Depot in Acton.  Thus, the final painted livery was an off-white/light grey colour.  Here is a mixed set:

 

R38_21144_StamfordBrook_25-7-74 by robertcwp, on Flickr

 

The odd car is there because of the reformation of R stock in 1971 whereby some west end four car units were increased to five by using a car moved across from another set that was reduced to three.  This was when 8-car trains were abandoned and 7-car became standard. 

[Gwiwer]

I've never seen a CIG with a 4-VEP driving vehicle before. Presumably it must have been a very temporary emergency fix by the depot.

 

It did happen (as evidenced by the photo) on at least this occasion and as the result of accident damage to the replaced vehicle.  I can't immediately find any reference to any incident other than 7437 having struck icicles in Balcombe Tunnel during 1985 and sustaining broken windows.   

 

Balcombe Tunnel is always wet and was notorious for icicles but now has interior structures fitted to the roof to eliminate the icicle risk.

 

The date of 1974 means this was well before the Balcombe Tunnel event and headcode is a mystery.  The photo is captioned "Wimbledon August 1974" and 7437 was indeed a SWD unit delivered b/g (and at the time the SWD Vep units were blue) but 44 was not in use in the SWD other than for specials assigned the reporting number 1Z44.  On the CD it meant Victoria - Redhill - Brighton semi-fast which wasn't a common stopping pattern / route either.  The Six Bells Junction website does not list a 4Cig charter running in August 1974.  

 

Was one of the spare cars from 7739/41/42 pressed into service to replace a damaged DTCSoL on 7437?

[chrisf]

The change of dmu livery in mid 1959 led to some piebald sets.  When the 3 Hawksworth CKs 7254, 7804 and 7813 were wired up to work with dmus in 1961 they each received a coat of darker green paint.  The Cross-Country sets in which they were marshalled, at least at first, were in the lighter almostbutnotquitemalachite green. 

 

Chris

[robertcwp]

Railway Observer for February 1974 has the answer concerning 7437 as it notes that the unit was running with blue-liveried S76730 on cab signalling tests.

[roythebus]

A pal once asked why the 2EPB sets out of Waterloo couldn't be shunted to make them look more uniform, instead of blue/blue grey/blue/blue. When I told him just how long it took to add a 2 car set to a 6 car, imagine how long it would take to shunt them at Waterloo just to get the colours matching! This was in the early 1980s before the introduction on NSE.

 

Re the R stock, what annoyed me was the fact that some of the first cars to be scrapped under the 1971 re-formations were the 1959 cars! I wrote a letter to the Evening standard about this apparent waste of resources and LT money, scrapping cars that were barely 12 years old and they published a bit about it.

[Xerces Fobe2]

I've never seen a CIG with a 4-VEP driving vehicle before. Presumably it must have been a very temporary emergency fix by the depot.

There was 4VEP on the reading line with, if I recall correctly CIG driving car that ran around for a few years!

[newbryford]

A more modern variation.

 Some 150's had been formed as three car units by Centro/West Mids, by splitting some 150/2's and putting the cars in between 150/1 twins and renumbering into 150/0 series. The 150/0's carried two different liveries.

 

When they moved to Northern Rail in 2011, the two car units were reformed and 150226, comprising 52226 and 57226, which had carried different colours, ran for a couple of months until acquiring Northern purple.

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mick

Edited February 15, 2015 by newbryford

[Gwiwer]

There was 4VEP on the reading line with, if I recall correctly CIG driving car that ran around for a few years!

 

Yes there was.  The SR normally retained the unit number applicable to the motor coach of a unit thus 7437 with a Vep DTCSoL remained 7437 and the Vep observed on the Reading line (which also ran other SWD services) retained its Vep number.  When units had two motor coaches the unit number was usually that which applied to the greater number of vehicles in the unit; when 4Cor DMBS cars were exchanged for example the unit number remained that of the three coaches of the original unit.  When we examine the temporary formations used on the Bournemouth line as 4Reps were taken out of traffic to donate their traction motors to 5Wes (aka 5Pig units / class 442) some rules went out of the window as extempore formations appeared frequently and "official" reformations and renumberings sometimes only lasted a few weeks to have enough rolling stock for traffic requirements.

[darrel]

There was a class 303 in the late 80s that was temporarily reformed with a driving coach from a class 311 from memory two coaches were blue grey the other was Strathclyde Orange. Or it may have been the opposite way around. I don't have a photo of it. But it did make an appearance in an old episode of taggart at exhibition centre station

[russ p]

A couple of times in the central trains era 156s were damaged in accidents and the damaged 156 cars were replaced with a 153. The 153 was coupled small cab outwards as apparently you can't couple the inner end of a 156 to the big cab on a 153,something to do with the jumper socket. The 153 even had its number changed to a 156,402 was one of them. This caused a few problems as not all drivers signed 153s

[TheSignalEngineer]

Deleted, put in here by error

Edited January 30, 2018 by TheSignalEngineer

[w124bob]

But can anyone find a Strathclyde/blue gray hybrid, I'm sure Newton Heath or Longsight had one.

Edited February 1, 2018 by w124bob

[muddys-blues]

But can anyone find a Strathclyde/blue gray hybrid, I'm sure Newton Heath or Longsight had one.

 

Courtesy of our Friend's at www.railcar.co.uk 

[rodent279]

Don't think any preserved dmu's are in white/blue are they? About time there was one I think.

[keefer]

But can anyone find a Strathclyde/blue gray hybrid, I'm sure Newton Heath or Longsight had one.

how about Strathclyde, blue & grey and plain blue?

 

https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/18/149/

[Waverley West]

A couple of examples of mixed livery DMUs from Kinghorn, Fife in the late 70s/early 80s...

 

Blue/grey plus white/blue stripe centre car

 

 

Blue/grey plus blue centre car

 

 

 

...and my representation of the rag-bag of DMU liveries around at that time...

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Waverley West

[keefer]

another ScR dolly mixture: https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/18/149/

 

EDIT: seem to have linked the same pic twice! Meant to post in a different thread oops

Edited February 2, 2018 by keefer

[Classsix T]

A couple of examples of mixed livery DMUs from Kinghorn, Fife in the late 70s/early 80s...

 

Blue/grey plus white/blue stripe centre car

 

Cravens.jpg

 

Hold the 'phone! That is a Cravens Cl.105 vehicle in blue AND grey? I'd've bet the farm none of them ever received anything past all over blue, but then I was under the impression anything that didn't have asbestos removal wouldn't have been approached with a grey laden paintbrush.

 

C6T.