Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[ChrisN]

A wonderful example of how the simplest of photos can have so much atmosphere

 

More please!

 

Mike

 

Mike,

Wow! Thank you.

 

I wanted to do the whole station, staff and passengers photo so beloved of the late Victorians.  (So called because after all the time to take photos of the train........)  However although I have a very old platform I could not lay my hands on it so it was just the loco and staff and a bit of help from Photoshop.  I will try and see what I can do as the project progresses but I do not really have an artistic bent.

[Anotheran]

Just a little fun before I talk about timetables.  An engine turned up and so did a photographer so they all rushed outside and stood around it, even though they are not fully painted.  Oh well never mind.

 

Really like them Chris. It's amazing how much the figures can add to the scene even though there's nothing else there but a bit of track and a loco. They really make a good picture.

 

Kind regards, Neil

[ChrisN]

I want to thank those of you who have supplied WTTs.  I have been looking at the arrivals and departures through Barmouth and have found it very interesting, in fact fascinating.  (I have told my wife this and she has given me an amused look.)  It is very obvious very quickly that the Cambrian Railways in 1904 had progressed considerably from when I am modelling in early 1895.

 

The first thing that I noticed was that the Dolgelley trains arrived and left usually very quickly so I first thought that they would not have changed platforms, i.e. if they came in on the down platform they would have left on the down platform, not the up or the bay. This was at a time when Volunteer Class tender engines were being used and I thought they would have been turned for the return journey so there was little time to transfer the coaches.  However, Barmouth is signalled for only one way running on each line so probably they did change platforms.   There is also a picture from the early 1880s of a Volunteer running tender first to Dolgelley so they probably did not bother to turn them.  The shortest time available was when the Dolgelley train arrived at approximately the same time as a train from Pwllheli and this was five minutes, although the average was ten.  I assume this is long enough to change platforms.  I also assume that the engines would have taken on water at Dolgelley as they had longer there.  I had not realised that they were Dolgelley based trains.

 

 Also the two platforms were not used at the same time as often as I had thought, probably only three times a day which is also interesting considering the size of Barmouth, but of course this is the winter timetable.

 

The people who did the timetabling had interesting ideas as to how it should work.  There was a goods and passenger train from Machynlleth which was due to arrive at exactly the same time as a train from Dolgelley.  I wondered in a previous post if they joined the two together.  No nothing as clever as that.  The instruction in a previous WTT was that one Coast line Station Master was to telegraph through if there were any passengers for beyond Barmouth so if it was slow and there were none, then the Dolgelley train was to go from Barmouth Junction first.

 

This leads to another interesting question.  The Machynlleth train stops at Barmouth but does it leave its coaches there or at Barmouth Junction?  On the return journey it is stated that it should carry passengers from Barmouth Junction, but that is not stated on the outward journey but the instruction from the previous WTT would seem to indicate this.  However, Bradshaw's from December 1895 shows this train carrying passengers to Barmouth whereas the return journey it only indicates passengers from Barmouth Junction.  If so does it take empty stock from Barmouth to Barmouth Junction even though this is not indicated?

 

The last anomaly I can see is that there are more down trains from Dolgelley than up.  The 17:10 ex Dolgelley does not have a return journey.  There is a Goods and Passenger train from Barmouth Junction that is not matched but this leaves Barmouth Junction at the same time as the unmatched Dolgelley train arrives at Barmouth.  Also, although this is classed as a Mail Train it has no through connection with trains beyond Dolgelley.

 

I have decided that these two anomalies are connected.  The only way I can see it working is if the engine on the Ex Machynlleth train takes the coaches it has brought in to Barmouth Junction and waits there to form the goods and passenger train from the Junction to Dolgelley.  The unmatched train from Dolgelley is then used for the return Goods and Passenger to Machynlleth.

 

Finally, the last down train from Dolgelley brings the through coach from the 10:00 from Paddington.  The train from Machynlleth, or rather  Glandovey Junction as it only takes empty carriages for the first stop, waits for 50 minutes for the privilege of doing so.  It was nearly sorted by the end of 1895 and the wait by then was only 20 minutes.  However, this train when it started would have connected with the train that took the through carriage from the 9:50 Paddington train to Aberystwyth.   So why were not both through coaches sent via Machynlleth?  I assume that it was advantageous to the GWR and they could charge more for the pleasure of taking the coach on the longer route.

 

In the next post I will be looking at which trains took what through coaches.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited February 19, 2015 by ChrisN

[Donw]

Chris

the GWR was not very helpful to the Cambrian at Dolgelley and refused to allow the Cambrian 4-4-0s to use the turntable. I have the impression the Cambrian never bothered to turn anything there so it was not that helpful to turn them at Barmouth.

There was pressure from the GWR around the turn of the century to increase the number of trains to and from Dolgelley to meet the GWR trains with the implicit threat of the GWR invoking Running rights.

 

There was some making and breaking of trains in 1912 one down GWR train was split at Dolgelly  some coaches worked through on the next Cambrian train and more worked through an hour later but they came back as one train in the morning. The through coaches too varied Through coaches from Paddinton worked via Dolgelley to Barmouth and Pwllheli on the 9:30 but came back in different trains.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Chris

the GWR was not very helpful to the Cambrian at Dolgelley and refused to allow the Cambrian 4-4-0s to use the turntable. I have the impression the Cambrian never bothered to turn anything there so it was not that helpful to turn them at Barmouth.

There was pressure from the GWR around the turn of the century to increase the number of trains to and from Dolgelley to meet the GWR trains with the implicit threat of the GWR invoking Running rights.

 

There was some making and breaking of trains in 1912 one down GWR train was split at Dolgelly  some coaches worked through on the next Cambrian train and more worked through an hour later but they came back as one train in the morning. The through coaches too varied Through coaches from Paddinton worked via Dolgelley to Barmouth and Pwllheli on the 9:30 but came back in different trains.

 

Don

 

Thanks Don,

I probably knew once about the turntable at Dolgelley but had forgotten it, like a lot of things.

 

My impression is that once Denniss became General Manager they began to work on what we would now call 'customer service', that is, speeding up trains, having proper connecting services etc.  It would have made sense to run trains from Ruabon all the way to Barmouth or further but I can imagine unless there was a clamour from the paying public neither company would have wanted to do it as they would be charged on the other companies lines.

[Donw]

I cannot be sure but I think quite a lot of the coaches from Rhuabon worked through although not shown as 'Through' coaches in the timetable. However they always changed engines at Dolgelley. I don't think there would have been an enormous delay at Dolgelley so the passengers probably raised no objections. After all in those days the GWR often changed engines at Netwon Abbot. The LSWR did so at Salisbury or Exeter. Similarly there were engine changes on the West and East coast main lines. The through coach system made it easier for many passengers once you and your luggage were settled that was it.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

I cannot be sure but I think quite a lot of the coaches from Rhuabon worked through although not shown as 'Through' coaches in the timetable. However they always changed engines at Dolgelley. I don't think there would have been an enormous delay at Dolgelley so the passengers probably raised no objections. After all in those days the GWR often changed engines at Netwon Abbot. The LSWR did so at Salisbury or Exeter. Similarly there were engine changes on the West and East coast main lines. The through coach system made it easier for many passengers once you and your luggage were settled that was it.

 

Don

 

Don,

I would have hoped that more coaches went through than shown but I have seen no photographic evidence before the 1900s.  However that does mean very little as there is not much evidence of anything.  The other main problem I see. although it may not be, is that in the winter of 1894/95 trains from Dolgelley that had a connection with a Ruabon did not have a connection when they returned except for the very last one in the evening.  I would have thought that they would have put a couple of coaches on the back, run it down to Barmouth, run them straight back and off again to Ruabon but without a connection then they would either have to wait at Barmouth or Dolgelley for the connection.

 

I suppose in future we may unearth some photographic evidence of a GWR coach leaving Dolgelley on a Cambrian train or even a GWR coach arriving at Traeth Mawr on an ex Dolgelley Cambrian train.

[Anotheran]

I suppose in future we may unearth some photographic evidence of a GWR coach leaving Dolgelley on a Cambrian train or even a GWR coach arriving at Traeth Mawr on an ex Dolgelley Cambrian train.

I think in the future it will be amazing how much photographic evidence of the going on at Traeth Mawr will be "unearthed"

[ChrisN]

Through coach workings is again an interesting subject.  Using the information that has been sent to me I have put on my timetable what coaches arrive when.  I have attached a timetable which is in an unusual format but for me clarifies what is happening.

 

 

Edited timetable to make it more readable.  Please say if it is not, or too big.

The top line is the number of the train on the WTT; the next line is the type of train, both from the Coast Line Timetable.  The number and type in brackets is from the Dolgelley Branch timetable.  You will notice that some trains are described differently which I assume is because the Station Masters on the branch need to know the importance of certain trains, although why the other Station Masters do not is a puzzle.  The thick black line above or below Dolgelley shows that there is no immediate through connection.  Now the interesting stuff.

 

The first train from Pwllheli has a through coach for Euston.  Simple enough.  This train is shown in Bradshaws to be able to get you to Paddington by 17:45, thirty minutes after the through coach gets to Euston.  However, the Dolgelley train that leaves immediately after it the  GWR connecting service only has times to Birmingham.  If you want to get to Paddington then you either have to go via Machynlleth and change somewhere or you have to wait for the through coach which does not leave Barmouth until 9:50.

 

The Paddington through coaches are interesting.  The 1904 timetable shows two coaches into Wales and three in the opposite direction.  There is no indication of where these extra coaches come from.  It is made even more interesting in that one of the trains due to bring a coach cannot have one in 1895 as there are no through trains to bring it.

 

The 10:40 train from Pwllheli in the 1904 timetable is shown to have a through carriage to Paddington but the train to Dolgelley immediately after it does not have a connecting service so either it is not attached, or it is and is not used, or it is used as a through coach but is not taken forward until the 14:25, which is a wait of over two hours at Barmouth.  I know there was a catering franchise but stopping trains for this length of time to increase its custom is a little excessive. 

 

The 9:50 Dolgelley train also had a Manchester Exchange through coach attached so it would have been longer than usual on the way back.

 

The 10:40 train from Pwllheli as well as having the Paddington through coach, which would have been detached at Barmouth, also had attached at Barmouth the through coaches for Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester London Road.  Quite a lot of messing about to do in ten minutes.

 

The arriving through coaches all happen together.  The 16:35 from Machynlleth arrives at Barmouth at 18:15 with the through coach for Pwllheli plus two coaches for Barmouth from Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester London Road.  There is plenty of time for them to be detached as it is not due to leave until 18:55 after the Dolgelley train arrives at 18:50 with the through coach for Pwllheli from Paddington, plus two more, one from Birkenhead, the other Manchester Exchange.  It is quite interesting that if you look at Bradshaws it states that the train from Machynlleth is connected to by the 9:50 from Paddington, but the Dolgelley train is connected to by the 10:00am.  Therefore to get to Pwllheli by the 9:50 you would have to change trains and come along the coast, having looked in vain for the through coach which was due to leave ten minutes later on another train.

 

It is also interesting that in getting to Wales it is of no benefit to go from Euston or Paddington past Barmouth, whereas on the way back if you wish to leave early then go to Euston, but if you wish to have a leisurely breakfast in the tea rooms on Barmouth station then go to Paddington.  The two hour delay at Barmouth translates into arriving half an hour later by the time you reach London.

 

I think this summary is fairly correct.  My next post will be how this affects Traeth Mawr.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited February 25, 2015 by ChrisN

[Quarryscapes]

I thought I would post some pictures.  No not of the plastic I have been cutting but some things I had at Christmas.

 

2-4-0 Shapeways.jpg

 

This is a Shapeways kit of a Cambrian 2-4-0, a Seaham Tank if my memory serves me correctly.  As you can see it is in translucent plastic and it is SMOOTH.  Shapeways must have very expensive printers as the quality is as good as any moulded kit.  It gives me the basics but I will not glue it together, it is just push fitted at the moment, until I have sorted the chassis and seen how it will fit with the gearing and motor.

 

The ladies watching are from Model Railway Developments and each has a twin.  They will be used inside carriages.  I think they are fairly reasonable but are not of the quality of A C Stadden and so will be used accordingly.

 

I also got this at the same time.

 

2-4-0 Chassis.jpg

 

This is the chassis kit for the above?  It was originally meant for the Gem kit which is the GWR version of the same loco.

 

Now this is going to be fun as I have limited experience in brass and none in soldering kits.  I may well buy something else to practise on.  However, I had a dark thought, perhaps I could glue it, a two part glue or superglue?  Comments please.

 

Also, is there an R-T-R chassis that would go under it.  Obviously not the Hornby 14xx but perhaps one of the Fleischman or Arnold 2-4-0s.  Again comments welcome.  I am willing to try but considering how slow things go anyway a method that does not involve weeks of learning a new technique would be helpful.

 

Finally, with no picture, I got the Middleton Press, Barmouth to Pwllheli.  Most of it I knew would be to late for my period but I thought it would be useful.  The first picture is of a loco and station staff at Barmouth.  In the background is a footbridge.  I thought I had extensively searched for a pre 1895 footbridge on the Cambrian Coast and had not found one so I thought I was going to be spared making one.  This picture is obviously pre 1890 as not only is it an older loco but the ballast covers the sleepers.  It just goes to show that no reference book is wasted.  It also has some pictures which I think I have already seen of Barmouth Station buildings which just confirms how boring the Coast Line architecture was.

 

More modelling soon. If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

You'll have to chop the boiler up to get the motor and gearbox in, I added the whole lot so you can chop the minimum amount necessary off to clear the workings.  I suggest a comet chassis jig for frame assembly, despite being tab and slot there's still enough slop to make a hash of it! 

[ChrisN]

You'll have to chop the boiler up to get the motor and gearbox in, I added the whole lot so you can chop the minimum amount necessary off to clear the workings.  I suggest a comet chassis jig for frame assembly, despite being tab and slot there's still enough slop to make a hash of it! 

 

Thank you,

This is all new to me and I am not sure when I will actually do it as there is a lot of other stuff to do first.

 

The Aston Goods, which I will buy when I have some money.  Had you thought of a chassis for that or will it go on the J15?  Early days yet as I have no drawing for the Aston Goods.

[ChrisN]

Well, well, well.  I have not been modelling as the dining table has been full of wedding cake, marzipan and icing.  I think there must be a wedding soon.  I have also not been well for a couple of days but am recovering.  So, while I am sitting wondering what to do and is it too early to go to bed, I Googled 'Cambrian six wheel coaches' just in case there were any new pages.  First up was this.

 

I am not sure how I missed this as it has been around for over a year but it answers my question about what were the through coaches before the bogie ones.  It states that it was a first/second luggage composite although this was the period that the Cambrian had abolished second so I will need to find another source to confirm.  I now need to go and see it.

 

I then Googled 'Cambrian Coach' as I am sure there is a six wheeler acting as a tea room on a local line somewhere and came up with this. I have seen it before but have only just realised its significance.  It is just too late for me but it does beg the question if all through coaches to Manchester were Cambrian.  I am going to say 'No' as the ones to Barmouth or Traeth Mawr, only travel over a short section of Cambrian Lines meaning that the GWR does not have to pay very much for the privilege.  The same is nearly true for the LNWR and it would be nice to have some different colour coaches.

 

The other six wheeled coach I was actually looking for is on the Chinnor & Princess Risborough Railway., although if I did not know it was there I would not have found it.  I believe this one was built in 1895 so too late and if I remember rightly not a through coach.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Edit:  Looking again I have found the one I was looking for is actually at the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway  I will have to investigate the other one further.

Edited March 1, 2015 by ChrisN

[Quarryscapes]

Well, well, well.  I have not been modelling as the dining table has been full of wedding cake, marzipan and icing.  I think there must be a wedding soon.  I have also not been well for a couple of days but am recovering.  So, while I am sitting wondering what to do and is it too early to go to bed, I Googled 'Cambrian six wheel coaches' just in case there were any new pages.  First up was this.

 

I am not sure how I missed this as it has been around for over a year but it answers my question about what were the through coaches before the bogie ones.  It states that it was a first/second luggage composite although this was the period that the Cambrian had abolished second so I will need to find another source to confirm.  I now need to go and see it.

 

I then Googled 'Cambrian Coach' as I am sure there is a six wheeler acting as a tea room on a local line somewhere and came up with this. I have seen it before but have only just realised its significance.  It is just too late for me but it does beg the question if all through coaches to Manchester were Cambrian.  I am going to say 'No' as the ones to Barmouth or Traeth Mawr, only travel over a short section of Cambrian Lines meaning that the GWR does not have to pay very much for the privilege.  The same is nearly true for the LNWR and it would be nice to have some different colour coaches.

 

The other six wheeled coach I was actually looking for is on the Chinnor & Princess Risborough Railway., although if I did not know it was there I would not have found it.  I believe this one was built in 1895 so too late and if I remember rightly not a through coach.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Edit:  Looking again I have found the one I was looking for is actually at the Cholsey and Wallingford Railway  I will have to investigate the other one further.

 

Cambrian through carriages were not the majority, though they were rather smart. The LNWR insisted on certain standards or they wouldn't include them in their trains, and naturally they kept raising the bar. An awful lot of through trains used no Cambrian stock at all. I've got a couple of D&S Cambrian bogie coaches in the drawer awaiting some more courage to tackle them! 

 

How was your little 2-4-0 when it arrived by the way? Mine suffered from bent cab steps, so I beefed them up but haven't actually printed it in that condition. Actually if you send me your address I have some etched overlays for the tanks and smokebox wrapper you might like. 

 

The Aston goods I haven't finished, I am in two minds whether 3D printing will be suitable for it, and I'm having trouble making compromises for 00 with it! It has an awkward small wheelbase which so far I have not come across on any RTR loco. One may yet turn up! 

[ChrisN]

Cambrian through carriages were not the majority, though they were rather smart. The LNWR insisted on certain standards or they wouldn't include them in their trains, and naturally they kept raising the bar. An awful lot of through trains used no Cambrian stock at all. I've got a couple of D&S Cambrian bogie coaches in the drawer awaiting some more courage to tackle them! 

 

How was your little 2-4-0 when it arrived by the way? Mine suffered from bent cab steps, so I beefed them up but haven't actually printed it in that condition. Actually if you send me your address I have some etched overlays for the tanks and smokebox wrapper you might like. 

 

The Aston goods I haven't finished, I am in two minds whether 3D printing will be suitable for it, and I'm having trouble making compromises for 00 with it! It has an awkward small wheelbase which so far I have not come across on any RTR loco. One may yet turn up! 

 

Alan,

The note on through trains does encourage me to have other companies coaches.  When questioned about the cost of through coaches Denniss told the board that it was good advertising to have its coaches in far away places so I shall definitely have Cambrian ones for the London trains.

 

The 2-4-0 was lovely when it arrived.  I have been reading how you need to burnish 3D models to make the surface flat but this did not seem to need that.  I will PM you later with my address, thank you.

 

I will hold fire on the Aston Goods.  It may go on the J15 if there is nothing else but not get photographed below the running plate!  That is still a way off yet though.  Hopefully next week I may have more time on the baseboards so I can get one stage nearer laying track.

[Quarryscapes]

I think whatever happens a Jones Goods will be next to make it to reality, shares it's wheelbase with lots of GWR locos (57xx, Dean Goods, Collett Goods - wheels same diameter as the latter two as well) so will definitely be easier to create. Again I'm just not sure 3D printing is the right material, I will have to get round to drawing one!

[ChrisN]

I think whatever happens a Jones Goods will be next to make it to reality, shares it's wheelbase with lots of GWR locos (57xx, Dean Goods, Collett Goods - wheels same diameter as the latter two as well) so will definitely be easier to create. Again I'm just not sure 3D printing is the right material, I will have to get round to drawing one!

 

Alan,

I did think of hacking a Dean Goods around to make a Jones Goods but then realised it was too late for when I was modelling.  If the Aston is a no goer then I will have to think some more.

[ChrisN]

I have not now done any modelling for over a week and will not now do any until next so I will post my final thoughts on through coaches now.

 

I have intended that although Traeth Mawr is not supposed to be Barmouth the trains that stopped at Barmouth would run as far as Traeth Mawr.  Now how does the information about timetables and through coaches affect the layout?  Well, the first thing is that I had wanted the bay platform for the branch trains but it appears that most of the time it is not essential to use it as the turn round time is usually quite short and the main line is never obstructed when a through train comes.

 

The through coaches make the biggest impact.  In my innocence I had assumed that all through coaches would have gone to Pwllheli but it appears not.  This means that at the end of the day there will be four coaches parked at Traeth Mawr and there does not appear to be enough siding space to store them.  I am considering my options as to how to increase this but any suggestions will be helpful.  My first thought is to slightly move the position of the bay and add a second siding to it.  It will help if the through coaches are six wheelers but I ought to leave space for an extra couple for the summer service.

 

The other question is which companies used the through coaches and what type of coach were they?  The coaches from Euston and Paddington I assume are Cambrian coaches as the only picture that I know of a through coach is the new tri-composite bogie coach at Euston.  The information I found and posted yesterday is very helpful.

 

Then there are those from Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester London Road.  I am assuming that these are LNWR coaches rather than Cambrian.  This is because in the early 1900s Dennis the General Manager had to explain why the through coaches were costing the Cambrian money.  His reply was that in winter the Cambrian had more through coaches onto other companies lines than vice versa so were being charged more than they could charge.  These two through coaches stop at Barmouth so it would seem logical that they were other companies coaches and were saving money not sending them all the way to Pwllheli, especially as there were connections for past Barmouth.

 

Those from Birkenhead and Manchester Exchange I assume are GWR.  The GWR and LNWR jointly ran the Birkenhead Railway and I know very little about it apart from that.  However, as the coaches came down the GWR route and stopped as soon as they reached the Coast Line it would seem that they were GWR coaches.

 

Now what coaches were used?  Did they use tri-composite?  Were they bogie coaches?  Where should I look to find out?  The only pictures I have seen and they may be later are GWR bogie clerestory coaches so I would assume short ones of these would fit.  I have a copy of LNWR 30ft 1" six-wheeled carriages' which I could put to good use if it could be proved that the LNWR did not use bogie coaches by this time.

 

It makes for an interesting assortment of coaches.  I had assumed when I was planning this a while back when it was no more than a feeder for a narrow gauge railway that I would only need five coaches.  Well, I need at least two sets for Dollgelley, 8 through coaches, and one or two sets for the coast line.  It will certainly keep me busy for a long while to come.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[corneliuslundie]

Of course you could assume that some of the through coaches were detached at Barmouth and therefore didn't make it to Traeth Mawr. Or you could send them back to Barmouth for overnight storage attached to a later train and return them to Traeth Mawr in the morning in time for their scheduled draparture..

 

Do I gather that the Great Central coaches all ended up at Aberystwyth?

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

Of course you could assume that some of the through coaches were detached at Barmouth and therefore didn't make it to Traeth Mawr. Or you could send them back to Barmouth for overnight storage attached to a later train and return them to Traeth Mawr in the morning in time for their scheduled draparture..

 

Do I gather that the Great Central coaches all ended up at Aberystwyth?

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Good thinking, although if I can get all four coaches on the winter timetable parked then it makes for some interesting shunting.

 

This is what comes of having limited knowledge of pre-grouping railway companies.  My reading said Manchester London Road was an LNWR Station, so I assumed that I would need LNWR coaches but I may well be wrong.  I shall go back and have another look.

 

There were carriages from Manchester Central in the summer so the Midland was sending them then.

[Donw]

There were through GC coaches from Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield to Aberystwyth could be the same ones of course and would they have run via Manchester Central then to Wrexham?  Info from the 1904 Time tables

Don

[ChrisN]

There were through GC coaches from Leicester, Nottingham and Sheffield to Aberystwyth could be the same ones of course and would they have run via Manchester Central then to Wrexham?  Info from the 1904 Time tables

Don

 

Don,

Thank you.  According to the Through Working page all the coaches from those stations went to Aberystwyth.  The Manchester Central coaches were on the same train so probably it was one coach that went to all these stations.  It was only in the summer that there was a Manchester Central Barmouth coach.

[Quarryscapes]

Alan,

I did think of hacking a Dean Goods around to make a Jones Goods but then realised it was too late for when I was modelling.  If the Aston is a no goer then I will have to think some more.

 

Oh it will happen, just not sure when! Bull ant in the tender and 3D printed loco chassis perhaps? I've ordered a copy of the GA from HMRS, rather than trying to work from the GW Weight diagrams. 

[Donw]

Somethjing I missed earlier Chris. quite often Through coaches worked on a 50:50 basis so possible two coaches from each railway were used  one set doing the up journey the other the down next day it would be reversed. There were some extra workings done by Cambrian coaches in the winter because they didn't have enough for the summer trains and it was a means of balancing wear and tear. So at Traeth mawr you might see a Cambrian pair one day and a GWR pair the next. The date of building the bogie coaches differs a little from what I read. The building of Bogie coaches started in 1895 and I think the building of six wheelers ceased in 1899. However the Cambrian would not have had enough bogie coaches straight away. If I remember the date I read was just after the turn of the century when the use of six wheeled through coaches ceased but I cannot find the reference and may be wrong.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Somethjing I missed earlier Chris. quite often Through coaches worked on a 50:50 basis so possible two coaches from each railway were used  one set doing the up journey the other the down next day it would be reversed. There were some extra workings done by Cambrian coaches in the winter because they didn't have enough for the summer trains and it was a means of balancing wear and tear. So at Traeth mawr you might see a Cambrian pair one day and a GWR pair the next. The date of building the bogie coaches differs a little from what I read. The building of Bogie coaches started in 1895 and I think the building of six wheelers ceased in 1899. However the Cambrian would not have had enough bogie coaches straight away. If I remember the date I read was just after the turn of the century when the use of six wheeled through coaches ceased but I cannot find the reference and may be wrong.

 

Don

 

Don,

Thank you that is most interesting.  I know that the only picture I have seen of a through coach is in 1895 when it was a brand new tri-composite bogie at Euston on the Aberystwyth run.  I assume that the Cambrian was really keen to publicise its new level of service.  I have seen adverts of how they have new comfortable lavatory coaches on the through service. 

 

As I am modelling early 1895 I am safe with six wheelers.  It is interesting that they swapped and swapped about.  I had realised that I would need a pair of coaches for each trip as the one going back would be passed by the one coming the other way, but the fact that it could be turn and turn about with different companies coaches is another interesting feature.  I don't think I will need any different amount of coaches, just different name boards on them.

 

Just to clarify, did you mean two coaches per train, so four altogether, or two coaches swapping over?

Edited March 6, 2015 by ChrisN

[Donw]

I was just taking two as an example. Certainly I think two 6 wheelers would look more likely than a signle one. I would suggest a compo and a brake third. Was there a 6 wheel brake compo? a bit tight I think. The number of coaches could vary say one or two in May and June increasing in July and August. They can also vary in composition in that there was a through coach(es) on two down trains but there would only be one return working with both sets together.

You could also have a van or siphon worked through these are not shown on the timetables. You could have one of those 4 wheel siphons working down first thing and returning with milk curns ( I assume or other perishables) in the evening.

Don