Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[Penlan]

corneliuslundie, on 13 Feb 2015 - 11:51, said:

 

cambrian wagon aberdovey.jpg

I missed this one when Jonathan first posted it.  The tie-bars between the W irons caught my eye.  A variation I haven't seen before.

Guess what the next kit I build is going to have!

I can't find the original post, but there's a reference to a Cambrian Rlys Plate, where's the photo of the plate / Cambrian Rlys ownership, please

[ChrisN]

 

corneliuslundie, on 13 Feb 2015 - 11:51, said:

I can't find the original post, but there's a reference to a Cambrian Rlys Plate, where's the photo of the plate / Cambrian Rlys ownership, please

 

 

Penlan,

The original post is here.  There is not a photo of the plate on this thread, perhaps Jonathan can answer that one.  I can see the plate on the photo but it is a bit small to read.

[corneliuslundie]

It is some time ago now but I think the photo was sent to me by tanatvalley, who said that it was a Cambrian wagon.- though I would have guessed that anyway. The comment about the plate is partly supposition since there is no lettering on the wagon. Cambrian plates had the company name on (in the singular!) according to Great Western Way. That section was prepared by Andy McMillan and John Lewis so I would expect it to be reliable - or as reliable as the scant evidence allows.

 

Jonathan

[tanatvalley]

I did send the original to corneliuslundie. It was taken from a glass plate negative, date unknown but before 1877.

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by tanatvalley

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris, I'm sorry to hear about your eye trouble, if only life would go according to plan more often.

 

That dresser is wonderful, it adds a lot of character to the room even before painting. The girls sound a bit balmy, are you sure the cricket is good for them!

[Simond]

"Balmy" conjures visions of hula skirts and the South seas

 

Not exactly the Cambrian coast!!!

 

Horrid language, English

 

(And before anyone asks, no, I don't speak Danish!)

 

Best

Simon

[Penlan]

Ah, yes, by adding 120% brilliance to the photo I've found it.....

 

I don't think it is, but, is that a paint date on the LH end of the Solebar.

 

Edited February 28, 2016 by Penlan

[Penlan]

I did send the original to corneliuslundie. It was taken from a glass plate negative, date unknown but before 1877.

I think, I'm sure, I've seen this before, a terrific, just my sort of photo. Many thanks TanatValley.

I don't recall may Railway Co's, putting the numbers on the ends, ,OK, yes the LNWR....

 

That must a new division on land boundaries in the background, new post and wire fencing, I would have expected stone walling for older, pre-Victorian boundaries

Edited February 28, 2016 by Penlan

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris, I'm sorry to hear about your eye trouble, if only life would go according to plan more often.

 

That dresser is wonderful, it adds a lot of character to the room even before painting. The girls sound a bit balmy, are you sure the cricket is good for them!

Mikkel,

Thank you for your kind comments.  I wonder if the dresser is in fact to fancy for the cottage and if I should put it in one of the houses opposite the station and do a simpler one instead.  I had intended to put it in the kitchen but perhaps it should go in the dinning area.  Decisions, decisions, if only all life was this serious! 

 

The girls are being brought up in the great British tradition of 'stiff upper lip', which is now, for better or worse mostly consigned to history, which is why they have to play cricket.  If you are really concerned then you could have a chat with their Headmistress but she may just listen politely and nod, and then ignore what you say.

[Penlan]

The girls are being brought up in the great British tradition of 'stiff upper lip', which is now, for better or worse mostly consigned to history, which is why they have to play cricket.  If you are really concerned then you could have a chat with their Headmistress but she may just listen politely and nod, and then ignore what you say.

So, not a liberal School with Miss J Brodie then....

[ChrisN]

So, not a liberal School with Miss J Brodie then....

 

This was of course about 30 years or more earlier, when some thought that educating young ladies was a waste of time.

[corneliuslundie]

I had forgotten about numbers on the ends of Cambrian wagons until the end of the 19th century - I should have known as it is one of the issues when trying to identify them and has come up before. I'd better stick to the Rhymney. And the GWR did it too, until the 1920s or so. It eats up the transfers.

 

But having now seen that whole photo, it is a scene just crying out to be modelled.

 

I tend to agree that the dresser would probably be more appropriate in a more "upper class" house, but my preference would be to put it where it is possible to see it. I have to admit that I put net curtains etc in windows to avoid doing interiors, as I could never do them to the standard Chris manages. It's just as well chapels tend not to have clear windows as I have two to build for Nantcwmddu, albeit fairly fairly low relief. I can't see myself spending the rest of my modelling life making pews.

 

Jonathan

[steveNCB7754]

 

... That must a new division on land boundaries in the background, new post and wire fencing, I would have expected stone walling for older, pre-Victorian boundaries

 

Funny, I was thinking just the same thing when I looked at that photo.  Also, do those fence stake spacings seem a bit closer than we use today (I've put up a few and will, no doubt, be doing some more this year at my friend's farm near Llanidloes).

 

Have also  just looked at Averdovey on the Merionethshire XLVIII.NW 6-inch map of 1887 (http://maps.nls.uk/view/102185248 on the Nat. Library of Scotland website) to see what the railway facilities on the quayside/jetty were like.  Quite complex and includes what looks like several wagon turntables, to allow individual wagons to be sent off onto tracks set at right-angles.

 

Stimulating thread as always.

 

Steve N

[ChrisN]

I had forgotten about numbers on the ends of Cambrian wagons until the end of the 19th century - I should have known as it is one of the issues when trying to identify them and has come up before. I'd better stick to the Rhymney. And the GWR did it too, until the 1920s or so. It eats up the transfers.

 

But having now seen that whole photo, it is a scene just crying out to be modelled.

 

I tend to agree that the dresser would probably be more appropriate in a more "upper class" house, but my preference would be to put it where it is possible to see it. I have to admit that I put net curtains etc in windows to avoid doing interiors, as I could never do them to the standard Chris manages. It's just as well chapels tend not to have clear windows as I have two to build for Nantcwmddu, albeit fairly fairly low relief. I can't see myself spending the rest of my modelling life making pews.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you for your kind comments.  I am still thinking about whether to have all the structures 'demountable', i.e. the roof and first floor comes off so that you can see inside.  My youngest son who is into wargamming said that is what I should do as we could then use them as firing platforms for troops.  He is safely married now, and although he has computer time I doubt whether he would be allowed to come over and spend the day, oh yes they take all day, to have a battle.  I do not think that the structures will be permanent and will need to be removed before the layout is taken down so it should not be a problem if they come apart.

 

I have a chapel to build sometime so I will have pews to do.  They ought to be quite simple.  I could say send me the dimensions, but as they will not be seen anyway........

[ChrisN]

Funny, I was thinking just the same thing when I looked at that photo.  Also, do those fence stake spacings seem a bit closer than we use today (I've put up a few and will, no doubt, be doing some more this year at my friend's farm near Llanidloes).

 

Have also  just looked at Averdovey on the Merionethshire XLVIII.NW 6-inch map of 1887 (http://maps.nls.uk/view/102185248 on the Nat. Library of Scotland website) to see what the railway facilities on the quayside/jetty were like.  Quite complex and includes what looks like several wagon turntables, to allow individual wagons to be sent off onto tracks set at right-angles.

 

Stimulating thread as always.

 

Steve N

 

Steve,

There are a number of pictures of Aberdovey Harbour which show the facilities, including the turntables.  I think in C. C. Green's book but if not there are not many to trawl through anyway.

Edited February 28, 2016 by ChrisN

[Quarryscapes]

Ah, yes, by adding 120% brilliance to the photo I've found it.....

 

I don't think it is, but, is that a paint date on the LH end of the Solebar.

 

Cam Rlys Wagon #2.jpg

 

No it's the tare weight, and is what I'm trying to find out. as I have no sample tare weights for any of the 7 Ton 2 planks. I know we've all seen it before, but here is my model:

 

[MikeOxon]

No it's the tare weight, and is what I'm trying to find out. as I have no sample tare weights for any of the 7 Ton 2 planks. I know we've all seen it before, but here is my model:

 

SLIDEDSXT0570.jpg

Sorry, my earlier post got garbled - the Tare looks as though it could be 4 10 2 (tons, hundredweight, quarters), though that is far from certain!

[southern42]

Hi Chris,

 

I noted your interest in the Welsh dresser and remembered the one in Bangor Museum. 

http://www.snowdoniaheritage.info/en/location/523/gwynedd-museum/

 

The type of dresser people had seems to have depended on their local tradition but also the height of the room or alcove, some cottages having very low ceilings. Apart from some one-upmanship that I suspect went on to have a 'better' dresser than next doors, kitchen dressers were given to offspring as wedding presents so they may reflect a higher standard of living than is reflected in the houses they came to stand in.  Some were simply passed down through the generations.   I've seen some really large ones and quite ornate ones in ordinary farmhouses and in local quarryman's cottages.  Just a few thoughts - I'm no expert, we just happened to buy one made in Spain (and on sale!) because Welsh ones were so expensive when we got married and, probably, still are.  So, unless your dresser is really over the top, I don't see why it shouldn't go where you want to place it.  (Hope I'm not talking out of turn.)

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris,

 

I noted your interest in the Welsh dresser and remembered the one in Bangor Museum. 

http://www.snowdoniaheritage.info/en/location/523/gwynedd-museum/

 

The type of dresser people had seems to have depended on their local tradition but also the height of the room or alcove, some cottages having very low ceilings. Apart from some one-upmanship that I suspect went on to have a 'better' dresser than next doors, kitchen dressers were given to offspring as wedding presents so they may reflect a higher standard of living than is reflected in the houses they came to stand in.  Some were simply passed down through the generations.   I've seen some really large ones and quite ornate ones in ordinary farmhouses and in local quarryman's cottages.  Just a few thoughts - I'm no expert, we just happened to buy one made in Spain (and on sale!) because Welsh ones were so expensive when we got married and, probably, still are.  So, unless your dresser is really over the top, I don't see why it shouldn't go where you want to place it.  (Hope I'm not talking out of turn.)

 

Polly,

Of course you are not talking out of turn.  Your post is very interesting.  I had, as I said assumed that poorer houses would have simpler Welsh dressers.  I can see why they command such a place in the house; I would love one but we do not have the room and I am not sure my wife feels the same way.  My daughter-in-law has one which is simpler apart from a shaped piece across the top and I was going to use that one but perhaps I will use the one I have made.  I had also intended to put it in the kitchen and paint it white but I am not sure whether to put it there now or show it off in the dining room and move the side board into the other room. 

 

What to put in the kitchen then?  I probably need a larder but the end where it would go is near the fireplace and cooker so not ideal.  I need to look in my Welsh housing books.  Any ideas would be helpful.

[steveNCB7754]

Polly,

Of course you are not talking out of turn.  Your post is very interesting.  I had, as I said assumed that poorer houses would have simpler Welsh dressers.  I can see why they command such a place in the house; I would love one but we do not have the room and I am not sure my wife feels the same way.  My daughter-in-law has one which is simpler apart from a shaped piece across the top and I was going to use that one but perhaps I will use the one I have made.  I had also intended to put it in the kitchen and paint it white but I am not sure whether to put it there now or show it off in the dining room and move the side board into the other room. 

 

What to put in the kitchen then?  I probably need a larder but the end where it would go is near the fireplace and cooker so not ideal.  I need to look in my Welsh housing books.  Any ideas would be helpful.

 

Hi Chris,

 

Regarding Welsh dressers -  just because a family was poor, does not mean they necessarily had a simpler example.  They might have hung onto a grander one, if it was inherited for instance (a reminder of better times for the family, or a generous forebear).

 

I also have a few books on Welsh housing (I did a building conservation degree, back in the 1990's), but not many have details of period interiors.  Problem, is that (being National Museum of Wales publictions) some are often museum recreations of interiors, rather than actual photos of real rooms.

 

The other thing that is not helping me visualise the situation, is (as we are now at thread post #1970) where now (in the thread) are the basic details of the house/rooms in question at Traeth Mawr?  There are an awful lot of pages to sift through (LOL).

 

 

Steve

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris,

 

Regarding Welsh dressers -  just because a family was poor, does not mean they necessarily had a simpler example.  They might have hung onto a grander one, if it was inherited for instance (a reminder of better times for the family, or a generous forebear).

 

I also have a few books on Welsh housing (I did a building conservation degree, back in the 1990's), but not many have details of period interiors.  Problem, is that (being National Museum of Wales publictions) some are often museum recreations of interiors, rather than actual photos of real rooms.

 

The other thing that is not helping me visualise the situation, is (as we are now at thread post #1970) where now (in the thread) are the basic details of the house/rooms in question at Traeth Mawr?  There are an awful lot of pages to sift through (LOL).

 

 

Steve

 

Steve,

Thank you, I think I have enough encouragement to keep this one in.  Getting it to be a nice rich mahogany colour may be a trifle difficult though.  I have started to put an index in the first post so that people can find their way around as those who have contributed have put such good stuff in that it should really be able to be found.  I have not got very far but the cottage has posts on five pages, 3, 15, 22, 25 and 31.  If you look at these you will still not understand the layout as the progress has been slow and it has been put to one side.  There must be another post as I have put the stairs in.  There is a picture of the outside of the cottage on one of the posts and you will probably say it is not old enough.  My excuse for building it is, is that it was where my wife and I spent our honeymoon; it was owned by the dad of a friend of hers at the time. 

 

There is a room on the left as you face the cottage that runs the whole way back, a kitchen across the back and a small room at the front on the right.  There are two bedrooms upstairs with a landing that reached the front window.  (When we were there the one on the right had been turned into a bathroom at the back and a boiler at the front.)  I will try and take some photos this week but it may not be before Friday.  It is a project that has rumbled on for years but it may not have a place on this layout; if it does not it will go on the narrow gauge one, if it ever gets built.

 

We have also have had discussions about cottage interiors, and there are photos of St Fagins.  (Search cottage o this thread.)  I have both Welsh Rural/ and Industrial Housing 1775 to 1875 bought at the exorbitant price of 1p each and P&P of £2.50 which at least shows layouts of other types of cottage.

 

The cottage is not the poorest but it is not one of the nice new three storey houses that will be opposite the station.

 

I hope that all helps.  The thread may seem chaotic, and it seems that way because in some way it is as I am posting what I am modelling and I am easily distracted although I will continue to build the shelter and the station.

[ChrisN]

I had a little time today to take  and found some old ones so here we go.

 

 

The wall and the doors attached on the room side.

 

 

This is from the hall side.

 

 

The wall in place.

 

I made the stairs from L shaped plastistrut, not sure which size but about the right height for stairs. I felt the stairs should be left wood and have no carpet.

 

 

Finally the last wall in place with the Welsh dresser in the kitchen.  It may go in the large room where the sideboard is. 

 

 

A side view.  The stove is at the end where the chimney will be.  I am not sure where, or if I can put a larder

 

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

That's actually quite a big house for this part of the world in the 19th century. Many were two up/two down with an outshot for the scullery and necessary arrangements, and only one window wide at the front. So no problem about a Welsh dresser as it must be the house of a manager or a well-to-do shop owner.- or maybe a ship's captain?

 

On larders, I am not sure how common they were. There are none in the plans in the Industrial housing book though I think all the examples there are rather more down market than yours. Mind you, my grandparents' house in Exeter had a larder big enough to fit a dining room table in. But that was quite a large house with dark wood plate rails around the walls of the very large main room. But even there the kitchen was a later addition.

 

And the stained wood finish is looking good.

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

That's actually quite a big house for this part of the world in the 19th century. Many were two up/two down with an outshot for the scullery and necessary arrangements, and only one window wide at the front. So no problem about a Welsh dresser as it must be the house of a manager or a well-to-do shop owner.- or maybe a ship's captain?

 

On larders, I am not sure how common they were. There are none in the plans in the Industrial housing book though I think all the examples there are rather more down market than yours. Mind you, my grandparents' house in Exeter had a larder big enough to fit a dining room table in. But that was quite a large house with dark wood plate rails around the walls of the very large main room. But even there the kitchen was a later addition.

 

And the stained wood finish is looking good.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you for your kind comments.  It is interesting that the 'front' end of Barmouth, that is the newly built parts near the station, had relatively larger buildings, three storey town houses, hotels etc, than the back end, those older parts which were older and had smaller cottages.  It may become the house that the Headmistress lives in if it makes it onto this layout.  The original is in a village at the end of 'Sportsman's Row' and this is 'Sportsman's Cottage'.  It is probably twice the size of the other cottages so was probably a manager's or foreman's house.

 

Larders:  I thought I saw one, and perhaps only one in the two books I bought.  To be honest the only larders I have seen were in my parents council house built in 1953 and one I owned built in the 30s.  They were both like a large cupboard, big enough to stand in to get to the shelves at the back, but not enormous.  I will try and look through again but to be honest I am sure the original did not have one.

[JCL]

Hi Chris, that's a great looking interior. With regards to larders, I may be off kilter here, but my family home during my teenager years in the '80s was a knock through of two houses. Those two houses still only created an unassuming 2 1/2 up 2 1/2 down (my bedroom was the boxed in landing), except that it did have a small larder. That is, it did until my mum attacked it with a sledgehammer. The house itself was bought from the signalman at Havenhouse station.