Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[ChrisN]

I thought it was about time I gave an update.  I have been wiring the layout, so point motors now on two boards, plus the wiring switches, and one board has nearly all the wire in place but not soldered.  When it is all attached I will check it with a meter to make sure I have put it all in the right place and then I will solder it.

 

No pictures with wires in but more on the shelter.  I left you with Mr Price showing off what had been done so far.

 

 

"Mostyn", I said, "you do not have to watch me all the time.  He stared at me.  "Mr Price to you, and yes I do.  I want it done properly."

Well, that put me in my place.  I always thought the senior person could use the more junior persons Christian name, but he obviously feels his new position very much and assumes I am just the contractor.  Oh well, never mind.

 

 

Here is the front wall and the side wall.  The upright 'planks' are 1.5mm by 1mm thick.  The end braces are 2mm square.  The frame inside the window is 0.75mm square and the sill is 1.5mm by 1mm.  The side was roughly measured using the card side that was left over with no attempt to make it straight at the start.  The door space was half left open with short pieces so it could be marked out properly later.

 

 

This is how it is held together at the back.  The bracing is all 1mm square and is prototypical in that I have tried to place it as it is in the original.

 

 

Another shot showing that I had made the door too narrow so had to move the bracing.  I realised that the top of the door was a semicircle so I undid several pens until I found one that was the right size to draw around.  I marked it up and cut it out roughly and began to file it to shape.  I then measured the height of the doorway and to my horror it was a scale 6ft 6" and I had not got anywhere near the line.  I was confused as I was sure the top brace was only 6ft 9" but I must have measured it incorrectly.  It would mean that I would have to not file the door all the way and it would look wrong.  I went out for the evening.

 

When I came back wishing to get it finished I measured it again and found that the gap was 24mm, a scale 6ft!  I proceeded to file to the line and it is now a scale 6ft 3", 3" shorter than I meant at first but at least it was not too big.

 

I mention this as this is a regular occurrence for me.  I am not sure how it happens unless I slip between multiple universes.  If this happens to you, do not despair, although not everytime I leave things have they worked out by the time I get back.

 

 

This is all three parts.  You will notice I have straightened the roof of the side portion.  I am going to have to cover that kink, but I think there is a side panel so that is ok.  I noticed once I had made these that on the picture of this end that the front support does not go all the way up.  I decided it would be easier to leave it as it is.  There are obvious gaps in the one at Newtown which might make fixing it together difficult.

 

You will also notice that the strips on the left over the window are lower.  This is because despite having carefully measured all the parts when put together the window of the second one was noticeably larger than the first.  I cut the frames out and moved it down.  It might have been easier just the cut plastic and score it, but not so much fun. 

 

I have been having even more fun with the windows, but more of that later.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

[Edwardian]

Looking good- keep up the momentum!

[corneliuslundie]

It is looking very promising. I think you were right to use individual strips rather than scoring. The only problem tends to be finding the right size strip as those who built the original structures we model were very inconsiderate and didn't always think in terms of multiples of 3/8 inch (5 thou).

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

It is looking very promising. I think you were right to use individual strips rather than scoring. The only problem tends to be finding the right size strip as those who built the original structures we model were very inconsiderate and didn't always think in terms of multiples of 3/8 inch (5 thou).

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  Yes using individual strips for this adds to its character.  The original is not ramshackle by any means but the platform is quite uneven so it gives it a 'not very polished finish' look.  As for strips, when I first started  modifying kits I did not realise you could buy ready cut strips so they got cut individually.  Fortunately I know better now.  The other issue is the thickness.  You need the plasticard to be robust enough so it has to be thicker than the original by scale, which means to use strips that 'feel' right, i.e., wider than thicker then you cannot go too narrow.

[ChrisN]

This past week I have been trying to fit window frames, and I have started to paint the bricks.  Both are partway through and without a photo of the latest stage so it really needs to be later this week before I report on either.  However, I realised with the frames that I would have to paint the wooden parts before I put the frames in.  Well I suppose I could put the frames in and then put the 'glass' in after, but I think it will be easier this way.

 

I therefore had to decide on what the colour scheme of the shelter was.  The Cambrian of course had set colours but from the photographs each station seemed to differently interpret how things should be painted, except I thinks window frames were white, I assume because no one had white frames at the time, and the rest of the windows and doors were British Road Services Green.  Well that is what the nice man on the station colours web site told me anyway.    I have looked in the books for the shelters and some were white, and some appeared dark, hopefully green.  I then came across a postcard of Newtown Station in 'A New History of the Cambrian Railway'.  Yes an actual Victorian postcard of the station on page 35 showing a white valance, umm, yes, a grubby white valance.  I had found a picture earlier of Dyffryn  Ardudwy station building which had a porch over what I think is the door to the station master's house, and it has a dark lower half and a white top half.  This of course proves nothing.

 

I then went back to the image of Newtown Station in the 60s. This has the same upper light, lower dark as on the porch.  Also the split has been carried on by Arriva Trains Wales on the present shelter, although from the bottom of the window except that the split is higher on the wall side of the door opening at the side, probably at the original level.  I am therefore going to assume, that the shelter has been painted in exactly the same way since it was built, with a lighter top and darker lower half, although the colours changed depending on which company owned it at the time.

 

This is how I will paint it unless anyone has more and better information, documents, pictures, trips in a time machine, that sort of thing.  Comments always welcome.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Penlan]

.... This is how I will paint it unless anyone has more and better information, documents, pictures, trips in a time machine, that sort of thing.  Comments always welcome.

ChrisN - It's your train-set layout, you can do what ever gives you the most satisfaction,

.... you have to live with it, we are mere, virtual, passers by. 

[Simond]

The annoying thing is that someone will find/present incontrovertible evidence of the historically accurate colour scheme (down to the direction & size of the laying-off brush strokes) approximately 15 minutes after your "best possible approximation give all available data" paint job has dried...

 

Given that this is an immutable truth of the modelling universe, you're probably as well ploughing on regardless.

 

Enjoy!

Simon

[ChrisN]

ChrisN - It's your train-set layout, you can do what ever gives you the most satisfaction,

.... you have to live with it, we are mere, virtual, passers by. 

 

Penlan,

This may be true, but you may have a photo of the original hidden away somewhere.

[ChrisN]

The annoying thing is that someone will find/present incontrovertible evidence of the historically accurate colour scheme (down to the direction & size of the laying-off brush strokes) approximately 15 minutes after your "best possible approximation give all available data" paint job has dried...

 

Given that this is an immutable truth of the modelling universe, you're probably as well ploughing on regardless.

 

Enjoy!

Simon

 

Simon,

The shelter at Newtown was a 'one off' and there are no pictures.  The Cambrian went out of existence in 1922 so unless there is someone living in Newtown of nearly 100, they would have had to be old enough to remember it well, then I think I am safe.  I probably have a picture of the structure at Traeth Mawr just after it was built in 1894 but I will have to see if I can find it.  It may take a while. 

[Simond]

Just over 100? That'll be old Mr Evans, you know, him with the photographic memory...

 

[ChrisN]

Just over 100? That'll be old Mr Evans, you know, him with the photographic memory...

 

 

Well somebody go and get him before I paint anymore plastic!!!!! 

[corneliuslundie]

I love the levity, but to inject a brief serious note, Brian Poole who lives in Newtown has for many years been interviewing former railway employees in this area - hence the Caersws book. I wouldn't put it past him to have the information, but I'm not going to ask him. After all it is Traeth Mawr we are interested in, not Newtown which just happened to have a rather similar shelter. And a lady in church was brought up in Montgomery station house.

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

I love the levity, but to inject a brief serious note, Brian Poole who lives in Newtown has for many years been interviewing former railway employees in this area - hence the Caersws book. I wouldn't put it past him to have the information, but I'm not going to ask him. After all it is Traeth Mawr we are interested in, not Newtown which just happened to have a rather similar shelter. And a lady in church was brought up in Montgomery station house.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

In a way as I am not modelling Newtown, and the one at Traeth Mawr was built before the Newtown one I think, what I am after is the flavour of the Cambrian, which is why I have not just sloshed green paint all over it except for the windows.  Any further information gleaned would add to the knowledge of how the Cambrian improved the finish of the shelter for Newtown.

[CKPR]

"corneliuslundie" posted It is looking very promising. I think you were right to use individual strips rather than scoring. The only problem tends to be finding the right size strip as those who built the original structures we model were very inconsiderate and didn't always think in terms of multiples of 3/8 inch (5 thou).

 
It's worth having a look in the "American" section of the Evergreen range [i.e. the stuff that's obviously aimed at US modellers] as there's quite of bit of stuff that's in yer actual Imperial sizes rather than being metric. 

Edited November 26, 2015 by CKPR

[ChrisN]

I have been progressing, albeit slowly, on several fronts.  The wiring is, er, going.  I have more or less finished two boards, although I have spent a lot of time this week finding the short on the first one.  Wires had been connected but not soldered, so less of a problem.

 

I have also been getting on with painting the brickwork.  I realised that although I have read other threads of people doing it I still had no idea what to do.  I checked some threads and decided that I would try the wash with mortar colour, dry brush wall colour.  I was also going to try the other way round but after the first paint I just went with the first. 

 

 

I started with a wash at the right hand side, let it dry, and then dry brushed with Humbrol 70 brick red.  I also painted the unpainted plastic next o it with a view to testing doing it the other way.  I decided that I should continue the first way but had not let the paint dry enough, hence the mush in the middle.

 

 

Here I have dry brushed the rest of it.  I used a Citadel Miniatures small dry brushing brush which has short hard bristles, and is very good, I think. 

 

 

Here is the other side.  I used Vallejo Pale Sand, mixed with water in an old Revell Colour Mix jar, not for once a little Tiptree Jam pot.  The mix was, add a bit of paint, drop of water paint it on, does it go well, no?, add more paint/ water until it goes on the way I want it.  Very scientific.

 

I started by brushing it on and then wiping it off with a paper towel, the idea being that the paint between the bricks would stay behind.  It didn't.  I painted again, and dabbed it off.  More stayed behind.  By accident I found that if I left it a couple of minutes to dry a little it was better but left a pale yellow smear on the bricks.  I then decided to rub the bricks with my thumb, and the above was the result.

 

 

These last two are both sides having been dry brushed first with brick read and the with Humbrol 160, German Camouflage Red Brown.  The outside has less of the second colour.

 

 

I am not sure that it is better.  I want to give another dry brushing with a light brown and then pick out some bricks/ part bricks in black.  I hope this will give the right colour of bricks that I have seen in Newtown, but I doubt it.  I quickly checked Barmouth........ and most buildings are of stone.

 

Finally.

 

 

This is not showing off the fact I have started to paint the woodwork but next to that are the uprights and struts to support the roof.  If anyone has any ideas how I might reproduce something that looks like the intricate detailing on the bracket supports on what is basically a 3, 4, 5mm right angled triangle I would be interested to hear.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited November 27, 2015 by ChrisN

[Argos]

Chris, for me the third one down looks the most convincing.

 

Of course it's always hard to tell with colour on a screen, there are so many variables (lighting, camera, file type, resolution, my screen etc.) that they may look different to the naked eye.

 

Thanks for posting this, I have some brickwork to do shortly and have been pondering the best method. If you ask 10 modellers you'll get 12 answers. You just have trial and find what works for you!

[ChrisN]

Chris, for me the third one down looks the most convincing.

 

Of course it's always hard to tell with colour on a screen, there are so many variables (lighting, camera, file type, resolution, my screen etc.) that they may look different to the naked eye.

 

Thanks for posting this, I have some brickwork to do shortly and have been pondering the best method. If you ask 10 modellers you'll get 12 answers. You just have trial and find what works for you!

 

Argos,

Thanks.  The third one down is just the mortar on the unpainted brickwork.  Maybe once I have put the third colour on and the individual bricks I will have to redo the pale sand on just the inside wall and see what it looks like.  If it gives better definition then I will continue to the other sides.  The structure will be fairly new when modelled so the mortar will be clean and visible.

 

Bricks are interesting and difficult.  I have been out today and all, no most er, no, start again.  Some houses are reddish, some are yellow with brown and some are brownish.  In Colchester the houses are grey.  The third picture down looks like the hose I grew up in.  This will probably be the only brick structure as the others will be stone so I will  have to see how transferrable the technique is.

[Argos]

Ah! Apologies Chris I should have read more carefully.

 

As you say bricks come in all colours, I my professional life in the construction industry I have occasionally had to match bricks for a refurb project, always a pain!

The range of colours, texture, and sizes is incredible. Even the colour of the mortar can affect the perception of the brick colour.

We would always select two or three close matches and build a small sample panel for the final selection.

[ChrisN]

Ah! Apologies Chris I should have read more carefully.

 

As you say bricks come in all colours, I my professional life in the construction industry I have occasionally had to match bricks for a refurb project, always a pain!

The range of colours, texture, and sizes is incredible. Even the colour of the mortar can affect the perception of the brick colour.

We would always select two or three close matches and build a small sample panel for the final selection.

 

Argos,

So is the third one down still looking the best?  I may well redo the mortar.  I was looking at a wall today and thinking that the bricks were incredibly uniform, yet other walls I have seen are very varied.  I did think as I looked at it the best method would be to do the mortar first and then paint it brick by brick.  I gave myself a good slapping and then went and had a lie down and I am fine now.  It does mean that you need to look at the building you are trying to duplicate, or for a fictional area the types of brickwork you think should be in that area.

 

Umm, matching bricks.  The builders who did our extension said they would need to match the bricks, and allow for weathering, and that they had some for the job.  Of course not being around all the time once it was up it was obvious they were completely different. 

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris, I'm a little confused which one is third down, but I like the look of this one: 

 

 

 

It is a little bright, perhaps, but it has a very regular look and I think that's important. Yes we can add subtle shades here and there with good effect, but they easily become overpowering, I think. Looking at a wall from a distance it looks very uniform, I think?

 

I use a similar technique to yours and recognize some of the trouble points. In my own case I've found it helps is tro draw the mortar wash diagonally (with a broad flat brush), which doesn't seem quite logical! Don't know if it works for others though.

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris, I'm a little confused which one is third down, but I like the look of this one: 

 

 

 

It is a little bright, perhaps, but it has a very regular look and I think that's important. Yes we can add subtle shades here and there with good effect, but they easily become overpowering, I think. Looking at a wall from a distance it looks very uniform, I think?

 

I use a similar technique to yours and recognize some of the trouble points. In my own case I've found it helps is tro draw the mortar wash diagonally (with a broad flat brush), which doesn't seem quite logical! Don't know if it works for others though.

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  This one is the plain mortar on the unpainted plastic.  I can see that I will have to redo the mortar.  I am after a multi-coloured effect.  Unhelpfully, they have painted the shelter red on most of the brickwork, except for two front courses next to the woodwork.  I have not achieved anything like that.  I added another couple of colours last night, both quite sparingly but I forgot to look at it in the daylight today so I will have to eave doing anything now until the middle of the week.  I am afraid that I will leave a pale yellow film over everything but despite care I have lost a fair bit of the mortar when adding the colour, fine for a building 150 years old but not a new one.

[Argos]

Hi Chris, as I in my previous post I agree with Mikkel, the mortar looks more regular and the brick more muted (even if it is not painted).

We don't have a photo of your reference building for comparison though so one of the others might be a more accurate colour.

Also as I stated previously the various media transfers will have affected the original colour.

 

Looking forward to seeing the building!

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris, as I in my previous post I agree with Mikkel, the mortar looks more regular and the brick more muted (even if it is not painted).

We don't have a photo of your reference building for comparison though so one of the others might be a more accurate colour.

Also as I stated previously the various media transfers will have affected the original colour.

 

Looking forward to seeing the building!

 

I will put up the picture I am working from.  Jonathan, (Corneliuslundie), took the images of the shelter and I felt I should be careful about posting pictures that he had not posted himself.  This was after I thought about it so I may have posted ones he has not.  However this one was one of his original set, which can be found in post 1441.

 

 

If you notice on the right is some brickwork.  It is not a lot but enough as having seen lots of brick walls I can imagine the rest.  To misquote something I have managed to make it almost completely, but not quite, unlike the original.  However, if at the end it looks like a brick wall, any brick wall then I shall be happy.

[Alister_G]

Chris, I hope you don't think this impertinent, as you are far better than I at painting, but you seem to have applied your washes and staining by brushing along the wall horizontally, whereas in reality whatever staining and so on are present will be affected by gravity, and should go vertically.

 

I wonder if dry brushing using vertical strokes would better give you the effect you are looking for.

 

Al.

[ChrisN]

Chris, I hope you don't think this impertinent, as you are far better than I at painting, but you seem to have applied your washes and staining by brushing along the wall horizontally, whereas in reality whatever staining and so on are present will be affected by gravity, and should go vertically.

 

I wonder if dry brushing using vertical strokes would better give you the effect you are looking for.

 

Al.

 

Al,

I will not argue as to who is the better painter except to say that I was glad just now when I saw that you had posted as I knew the advice would be good.

 

You are right that I have painted horizontally but this is because I have been trying just to give the bricks colour rather than weather them.  In reality a structure that had only been up a while on the Welsh Coast, even if next to a railway would not have got that dirty but you are right, the rain would have drawn the colour downwards.  I will think on this, but my next job I think is to redo the mortar, then we will see.