RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2015 Fair enough, I shouldn't get all Blackadder about Morris Men. I confess I quite enjoy seeing it, having gone to the Straw Bear festival in Whittlesey a number of times. But the Molly dancing has a certain dark power to it that is certainly different from Cotswold men in white. And don't forget the clog dancing. I once shared the right to march through Chester with bands playing and flags flying. This was also a privilege of limited utility, but rather splendid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted July 25, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2015 Moving on from Morris men. Picture 43 in the Francis Firth collection Penlan put up shows a train on Barmouth Bridge. It is not a Dolgelley train as it is 1896 and they would have had a tank engine on them. The front and last coaches are full brakes and are green and white, the second to fifth are six wheelers, then there is a clerestory, then a four wheeler. Apart from the two brakes they appear to be only one colour, and I thought the Cambrian did not have an all over colour until later, The coaches also appear to have oil lamps, not gas so it is most likely the picture is not mis-dated. The second coach seems to have a luggage compartment in the middle. So, which company does the clerestory belong to? The choice is, GWR, umm unlikely as going down the coast, LNWR, is the livery right, Midland, or Great Central, again would these two companies be going down the Coast? Something to discuss as I may not be around for a bit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) My twopenneth: I think they are all two-colour, with light upper panels. I think that the ones that might appear one colour are just dirtier. I spend a lot of time looking at Grouping era pictures of chocolate and cream coaches and, to me, the darker upper panels are just how I would expect cream panels to look if dirty. To my eyes they are still a little lighter than the lower portion of the sides. As to company, I would guess a mix of GW and Cambrian (that may yet prove to be a GW clerestory on closer inspection), but without a much larger print with a good resolution and some reference books to hand, I couldn't venture more. They don't look like LNWR coaches, as the panelling style of these is quite distinctive and I suspect would be obvious even at that distance. It is a wonderful photograph and shows a train well worth modelling. Edited July 25, 2015 by Edwardian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted July 25, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2015 My twopenneth: I think they are all two-colour, with light upper panels. I think that the ones that might appear one colour are just dirtier. I spend a lot of time looking at Grouping era pictures of chocolate and cream coaches and, to me, the darker upper panels are just how I would expect cream panels to look if dirty. To my eyes they are still a little lighter than the lower portion of the sides. As to company, I would guess a mix of GW and Cambrian (that may yet prove to be a GW clerestory on closer inspection), but without a much larger print with a good resolution and some reference books to hand, I couldn't venture more. They don't look like LNWR coaches, as the panelling style of these is quite distinctive and I suspect would be obvious even at that distance. It is a wonderful photograph and shows a train well worth modelling. I think all but the clerestory are Cambrian, unless the one in front of the clerestory is another company. The reason I did not think the clerestory was GWR was that it is not a Dolgelley train. I suppose I could always buy the picture. Yes well worth modelling and hopefully will be able to at some point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2015 Chris, I suspect that will prove to be the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I seem to recall I promised to post a photo of my herring bone Computer Chad paving...I've now found the piece I did, some 30+ years ago for a friends layout - Devynock (Sennybridge).This paving was due to go under the station awning, but the layouts owner (The Icon) changed his mind.Everything seems to have dulled a bit and the colours merged, for all the effort there's really nothing to show.However, I have applied some talc at one end to show the gaps (?), and in view of this topic, obviously a relevant coin for scale. I'm not sure how they were glued on as the backing piece is 40 thou Plastikard.I think I can see the tiny pin holes where I stabbed the individual Chads to pick up and put in place, I think.Of course I had a full time job then and editing a Society magazine too, plus a young family etc., so I had time to do things like this, now I'm retired, there's no chance of getting on with a job like it, even if I had the Chads. Edited July 25, 2015 by Penlan 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) A collection I've not heard of before >> http://www.albertkahn.co.uk/europe.html But date of photo is circa 1900, I believe. Location, not known, though I expect if one really wanted to plod through their records, Neg. No. A.2356 would tell us something. Edited July 25, 2015 by Penlan 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2015 Chris I am fairly sure there were through coaches via buttington and Welshpool from the GWR up to Barmouth and possible Pwllheli as well aound the turn of the century. Also although the Naysmith 0-4-4 tanks were used to Dolgelley not evry train was so hauled. I will check the 1904 timetable. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2015 Chris in 1904 there were through coaches to Barmouth and Pwllheli via both Dolgelley and Welshpool, Liverpool lime st to BArmouth via Whitchurch, London Euston to Barmouth, Criccieth, Portmadoc and Pwllheli via Welshpool, also Pwllheli and Portmadoc via Afon Wen, there were also some Manchester ones. So the train on the bridge could well include a GWR or LNWR coaches maybe both. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Talking with my friend 'The Icon', about Gambo's (Welsh carts)*, we got onto Donkey carts, and he stated that they were mainly used around the coastal areas for deliveries, groceries, milk, etc., though I'm sure we could be inundated with inland views of donkeys pulling carts, soon.ChrisN, I can see a BIG congestion on the roads at Traeth Mawr, and not just due to the Parade, Military attending a local Camp etc., * We have an extensive exchange by snail mail and telephone re, pantechnicans at present - The Icon doesn't do 'The Internet', as I'm sure John Miles on this Forum will confirm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 Did The Icon offer any explanation as to why donkey carts were only found around the coast? As my layout is set in the uplands and the only road-going transport featured is donkey-powered this could be significant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 26, 2015 How about Donkey's with panniers quite common I believe in steep hills Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Did The Icon offer any explanation as to why donkey carts were only found around the coast? As my layout is set in the uplands and the only road-going transport featured is donkey-powered this could be significant. No, He's always right, even when he's not....... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) The Icon is a legend and not to be questioned. Edited July 27, 2015 by John_Miles 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaingoat Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The Icon is a legend and not to be questioned. If The Icon is ever wrong.....the world will cease to have meaning................................ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) ChrisN, Period costume ?Well it would make for a interesting cameo.. PS - I see in the papers there's mention of Newport (South Wales) having a legal area near Pill ....... for the use of Ladies that perhaps John Sewel is familiar with............So far removed from Barmouth and Chapel values. Edited July 28, 2015 by Penlan 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 It would make for an interesting cameo, or, indeed, a very interesting afternoon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted July 28, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 28, 2015 Too modern for Traeth Mawr, alas. But backdate the costumes and replace the motorbike by something appropriate to the period - and of course a bathing machine - the possibilities are endless. A pity Chris is not modelling the beach. Jonathan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted July 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 28, 2015 A pity Chris is not modelling the beach. He's not?! I feel very let down by the title then! Chris, you're just going to have to rename it Ger y Traeth Mawr! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2015 I can recommend 'The Photographer in Rural Wales' by W.T.R.Pryce, a photographic archive of Llanfair Caereinion and its region, c.1865-1986, published by The Powysland Club 1991. Although not of the Barmouth area it has several street views. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2015 Inland donkey cart congestion in Llanfair Caereinion! The book I mentioned in my previous post shows 2 such carts. The first is dated c1890 and shows a small cart hauled by 3 donkeys, the second is dated c1900 with a single donkey hauling a butcher's cart. This proves Penlan's theory that 'The Icon' is always right even when wrong! Alan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) I'm sure some on this Welsh related thread will know the Icon, a founder member of the Welsh Railways Research Circle, and a lively leader of Heritage walks, Welsh is first language and the Neath & Brecon Rly is his life blood. Why 'The Icon', well one morning (when we where exhibiting my layout) he was up early and in the shower, the other person asleep in the room was assumed to be asleep, but he overheard the Icon (who was looking in a mirror) say "I see before me an Icon"......I think that spread around the B&B breakfast table quicker than a scolded cat.I know him well, must be 40+ years now, and he's been 'Best Man' at 2 of my weddings.... So, there is 'The Icon'. Edited July 29, 2015 by Penlan 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 I have probably met the Icon then although I don't get to attend WRRC AGM's these days. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 The Icon is a Welsh secret service agent acting under cover in the English Midlands, posing as a retired headmaster and living with his handler who pretends to be from Rotherham. One must never reveal his identity. His mission is to bring all things Welsh to the uneducated Sais. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) If he operates in the English Midlands, presumably his mission is, somehow, to get the entire water supply of the West Midlands to flow backward, back to Wales where it belongs! His code number is 00evan, and he is Licensed to Sing. Ever read Aberystwyth Mon Armour? Patagonia - the Welsh Vietnam PS, Where is our kind host? Is it time he lead us kindly, but firmly, back on topic? Edited July 30, 2015 by Edwardian 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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