Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[corneliuslundie]

You can't say this thread is boring! All human life - and some others.

[ChrisN]

Thank you all for your comments.

 

My understanding is that the long school holidays were so that children could help with the harvest, but it begs the question how much arable harvest was there is some parts of the country, or am I being a townie/ having an understanding of farming from a Hertfordshire/East Anglian point of view where it is firstly arable and secondly cattle.  I know in Essex DEFRA have trouble finding enough sheep to test, (SATS?) as they have to do a certain number not a percentage.

 

Having said that one of my sons spent a while on a Herefordshire farm helping with lambing.  He took the day shift and the farmer the night shift so I can imagine that if that was going to be your life it probably was more important than schooling provided you could read, write and count.  This being before the days when DEFRA had rules about everything.

 

I walked to school and in my senior school lads from the age of 11 came on the train to White Hart Lane in Tottenham from Enfield, but I think the perceived risks were different and the number of cars on the road were less.  When I started work in 1975 my boss then said that traffic was lighter in the school holidays as there were no school runs so things had obviously changed in a few years.

 

I case you are wondering I have been away for a while, and away from the internet but I will return tomorrow and begin to do some modelling so we can comment on that.  The kits I brought with me are untouched, but I have looked at the internal plan for the station, and thought about the little scene from the hiring fair.

[Mikkel]

A bit of Googling suggests it is no longer available, but at one time the records from the village school at Cwm Belan (immediately south of Llanidloes) were available on line and a regular complaint was the way a high percentage of the pupils did not attend school during harvest time.  The records covered several decades and several headmasters and the latters attitude varied from resignation to annoyance.

 

Edit

Found it!  http://history.powys.org.uk/history/llani/belan1.html

I'm a bit of a dunce with links, so if it doesn't work, Google "cwmbelan school". The mistake I was making was turning Cwmbelan into two words.

The records cover the period 1872 to 1945.

 

Thanks for that interesting read. The extracts indicate how important the weather and changing seasons was in people's everyday lives back then.

 

I noted that the extratcs do not seem to  question that pupils are absent for farm work, and calls the potato harvest "indispensable work". In today's Denmark, schools have the same approach when pupils are absent due to a skiing holiday. Times change... 

[Edwardian]

A recent find for me, and I have enjoyed catching up.  Very much my sort of thing, I find, and I look forward to the updates.

[ChrisN]

A recent find for me, and I have enjoyed catching up.  Very much my sort of thing, I find, and I look forward to the updates.

 

Edwardian,

Thank you.  I think what actually makes the thread is the contributions from others, who firstly give advice but also join in the discussions as we try and piece together what life was like over a century ago.  It will be a slow burn as I think the scenery will come together more quickly than the stock which will be a challenge

[Edwardian]

Well, Chris, I feel I am a similar place.  I have very little time for modelling, so must creep forward, but you are right that one must first piece together the every day scene.  I am aiming for around the turn of the century and constantly face the challenge of establishing how things looked then, as opposed to now or in the relatively familiar '50s and '60s.  Just something as simple as a garden path requires a degree of thought; no concrete patio slabs in 1900s gardens!

[ChrisN]

I am going back to the Carlisle Hiring Fair as this is what is taking most of my time, well painting ladies and making chairs are the others.

 

The reason I am doing this is that there will be a little cameo at the market end of Station Road, which may move into the market if I ever build my 009 layout.  The expressions in the picture are very interesting.  The mother of the girl, her face is set and there is no telling if she is relieved to get her daughter a job so there is one less mouth to feed at home or sad to see her go, or both.  The daughter looks most miserable as she knows now that her future holds hours of endless drudgery.  I am assuming it is a bigger type of house where she would not be the only servant.  (She probably is also not happy that she is attached to the lamp post behind her by her cap so that she cannot run away!   )

 

The lady hiring her, who I had assumed to be her new Mistress but if it is a big house could be I suppose the housekeeper, looks very business like and just a little humourless, I am not sure I would like to work for her.

 

I have noticed that the mother and the daughter both wear clogs with wooden soles and leather straps over the top, or that is what they look like.  The mother appears to have holes in her stockings where her big toes poke through.  Did they wear clogs in Wales, or was it just a Northern tradition?  No idea.  (If you remember Harold Wilson got into trouble when her said that it was common in his school for children not to go to school in shoes, meaning that they wore clogs, and he was accused of saying children in his school were barefoot.)

 

I have found another image of the same picture with the information that it was 1904, so the mothers clothes I would think are at least 8 or 9 years old, and the lady's possibly 4 or 5.  Umm, maybe she is a housekeeper?

 

I have a figure for the mother, well one of three from Andy Stadden.  I looked at the Dart Castings 'Edwardian Lady' as her dress was shorter, but she is a little stout.  Not over scale but heavier than the 'Lady' which I do not think is appropriate.  I am modifying a figure for the lady.  I have cut her arm off but do not want to glue it back on until I know which figure I am going to use for the girl.  (I did offer her pain killers but she said she was a women and had had three children so just get on with it.  At the end to my surprise her skirt had blood on it.  Whitemetal figures do not usually bleed, but then I realised I had cut myself with the scalpel.)

 

I have yet to decide on a figure for the girl.  None of the Preiser Edwardian figures are appropriate or modifiable.  I am still looking at there more modern stuff as well.  As I write I realise there maybe a boy I could modify but it is cut both arms off and tie his legs together job, plus of course a Milliput skirt.  Dapol figures, no.  Langley?  I have looked through once and I have some schoolgirls but their heads are too big.  Nice figures but would not fit.  There is a girl in the Langley Posh Victorians that may do.  I am sure I bought those once but the girl was not in the set then.  The others are reasonable so I may try that.  Thoughts welcome.

 

Track is progressing, station plan is ready to be discussed.  Gosh, so much excitement.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[ChrisN]

Well, Chris, I feel I am a similar place.  I have very little time for modelling, so must creep forward, but you are right that one must first piece together the every day scene.  I am aiming for around the turn of the century and constantly face the challenge of establishing how things looked then, as opposed to now or in the relatively familiar '50s and '60s.  Just something as simple as a garden path requires a degree of thought; no concrete patio slabs in 1900s gardens!

 

I never thought about paths.  There were granite paving slabs, on the pavement.  In terraces there could be sand a cement paths.  Probably nothing in the back.  I saw a photo once, not in my possession so no scan of it, of a large family in the garden of a new house, all lined up for the photo.  The garden was bare earth so they were all standing on a carpet!  Now there is a cameo!

[Edwardian]

Interesting, Chris.  Paths, their materials and arrangement. I tell you, it's a subject all in itself.  There are references to cinder paths near railways (I believe there is even a Catherine - "will ye still love me with me wooden leg" - Cookson novel named for one), and I have tried to represent similar with very fine sandpaper. I've seen pictures of what are essentially brick setts in garden paths. I believe these were often yellow, hence the Road to Oz, I suppose, or blue. Now, there is something for Scalescenes et al to tackle.

 

Seemingly terraces were often built with no apparent divisions between gardens; the fencing being, apparently, left to the occupiers to erect. In the Yorkshire of my youth I recall paths made of flagstones that led directly across the backs of terraced houses, dividing them from the gardens, with all the stone-built privies forming a terrace of their own, often at the end of a row.  These terraces often had communal 'drying grounds'. Possibly due to my own lack of observational skills, I don't recall an example of such arrangements in model form, though I remember seeing them as clearly as I can hear the brass bands playing "From the New World" whilst going to buy a loaf of bread.  But, then, in them days, we were grateful to live in a hole in the ground...  

[ChrisN]

Interesting, Chris.  Paths, their materials and arrangement. I tell you, it's a subject all in itself.  There are references to cinder paths near railways (I believe there is even a Catherine - "will ye still love me with me wooden leg" - Cookson novel named for one), and I have tried to represent similar with very fine sandpaper. I've seen pictures of what are essentially brick setts in garden paths. I believe these were often yellow, hence the Road to Oz, I suppose, or blue. Now, there is something for Scalescenes et al to tackle.

 

Seemingly terraces were often built with no apparent divisions between gardens; the fencing being, apparently, left to the occupiers to erect. In the Yorkshire of my youth I recall paths made of flagstones that led directly across the backs of terraced houses, dividing them from the gardens, with all the stone-built privies forming a terrace of their own, often at the end of a row.  These terraces often had communal 'drying grounds'. Possibly due to my own lack of observational skills, I don't recall an example of such arrangements in model form, though I remember seeing them as clearly as I can hear the brass bands playing "From the New World" whilst going to buy a loaf of bread.  But, then, in them days, we were grateful to live in a hole in the ground...  

 

I shall have to go on a picture hunt.  It obviously depends on where and exactly when the houses in question were built.  The Victorian houses I lived in and visited in Tottenham had cement paths which I had not even considered were not original, I shall look again.  I tend only to see one thing at a time when looking at photos so next time it will be paths.

[Edwardian]

My recollections were of stone-built terraces in the West Riding (I persist in the belief that Yorkshire is divisible by 3, not 4). 

 

Often hard to capture such details with confidence from old monochrome photographs.

[aberdare]

Hi Chris

 

I managed to purchase a couple of books on the Histories of Hemyock and Willand which are the villages closest to my stations, they have been extrememly useful in identifying details such as paths, as far as I can make out they are just a mix of earth, ashes and stone (probably). Certainly no pavers anywhere or concrete.

However down in Somerset at my Grans old cottage the paths were huge uneven stones much the sam,e as were laid in the kitchen, my dad said they were just as deep but I can't verify that, he was born there in 1922 though so he knew the history of the old house from my grandad born there in the 1890s.

 

I also obtained some photographs of an old farmhouse I lived in when near Epworth, N Lincs and that showed dirt/stone paths annd also the yard where they did the threshing.

 

Keep up the good work

 

Jim

Edited July 18, 2015 by aberdare

[corneliuslundie]

Access across the rear of houses seems to have been common north of Watford. We have a house in Chesterfield which has rear access across the next door garden. And when we were looking at houses there were several with a rear access path dividing the houses from their gardens. The same here in Newtown. We have a right of access over three back gardens to an archway under the terrace. We use it to take the bins out, rather than through the house.

 

But more relevant, there is an old communal washhouse in the back garden of the house next door but one which I believe once served all six houses in this block. When the houses were built in the 1830s this was the only source of water and I don't know if there was any mains drainage.

 

And I don't know anything about original materials for the paths as they have all been changed over the years and most are now concrete or stone slabs.

 

Fascinating about the hiring fair.

 

I have just been reading a book on the history of the Dylife lead mines. They were in the hills between Machynlleth and Llanindloes and closed down a century ago. A lot about the old houses and lost of photos though many are now ruins. But a fascinating glimpse of a completely lost way of life. One thing which is relevant to Traeth Mawr is the very large numbers of people, including lodgers working at the mines, who lived in very small cottages.

 

Jonathan

[Penlan]

....... I've seen pictures of what are essentially brick setts in garden paths. I believe these were often yellow, hence the Road to Oz, I suppose, or blue. ......

This was one of the uses for computer chads (card punches), I did a couple of station platform areas in front of the building with these, herringbone fashion, they looked very good (I thought). I don't know if I still have a sample somewhere, I will have to look it out.

These where for a friends layout(s) not mine.

I certainly don't have any chads now, though in the 70's - 80's I seemed to have had bags of them.

[Penlan]

......When the houses were built in the 1830s this was the only source of water and I don't know if there was any mains drainage.......

I'm sure I mentioned it in an earlier posting, but in Inverkeilor (Angus, Scotland), we had a vast improvement in water supply, instead of going down a couple of hundred yards to the church and pumping water into buckets, they put a standpipe at the end of our close in about 1953, though it may have been later, I do recall carrying a small bucket of water up from the church when I was at school there in 1952 - 53.

It was called The Close, then in the 70's posh people bought some the houses and it became 'Teapot Lane'.  It had been Redcoats army housing at one stage.  Before the name change, the toilets were at the top of the garden.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Penlan

[ChrisN]

Access across the rear of houses seems to have been common north of Watford. We have a house in Chesterfield which has rear access across the next door garden. And when we were looking at houses there were several with a rear access path dividing the houses from their gardens. The same here in Newtown. We have a right of access over three back gardens to an archway under the terrace. We use it to take the bins out, rather than through the house.

 

But more relevant, there is an old communal washhouse in the back garden of the house next door but one which I believe once served all six houses in this block. When the houses were built in the 1830s this was the only source of water and I don't know if there was any mains drainage.

 

And I don't know anything about original materials for the paths as they have all been changed over the years and most are now concrete or stone slabs.

 

Fascinating about the hiring fair.

 

I have just been reading a book on the history of the Dylife lead mines. They were in the hills between Machynlleth and Llanindloes and closed down a century ago. A lot about the old houses and lost of photos though many are now ruins. But a fascinating glimpse of a completely lost way of life. One thing which is relevant to Traeth Mawr is the very large numbers of people, including lodgers working at the mines, who lived in very small cottages.

 

Jonathan

 

Traeth Mawr Town Council instituted a policy of new building when the railway came so as to attract tourists, I mean you do not want the hoi polloi around when you are trying to attract people with money.  The market square was mostly rebuilt, (off scene on this layout), and Station Road, (the main road running through the layout), and the Promenade, (Off scene on the other side) are both new builds.  The Station Road houses are based on actual buildings from around that time and have all modern conveniences, water to the house, gas and the privy attached even if the door is still outside, and maybe a coal cellar.

 

However, the railway side of Station Road may have some older cottages.  Whether these would have been put on main drainage when it was put in across the road I am not sure.  I will need to check the Town Planner's archives some more, but the structure of the outside privies did not change, or the wash house.  It all depends on space and did the railway split the cottages from the beach or are they still on that side, (i.e., off scene).  Station Road is just a line of houses with gardens, and on the other side there is a chapel and maybe, much to the Head Teachers annoyance as the path leads to the Girl's School entrance, some more older cottages.  Once I finish the track and work out actual sizes I will know better.

 

The slate quarry is at the other end of the valley so there are lodging houses there but the family homes are further down the valley, including Traeth Mawr. The narrow gauge has a workman's train first thing Monday morning and late Friday night, although it may have to be Saturday lunchtime now I have done further research.

 

 It is interesting the number of 'boarders' in the Barmouth Census as well as 'visitors'.  Visitors seem to be just that, but boarders seems more difficult to define.  Some could be on holiday and some could be permanently working in the town but who is who is not clear, except the Englishman Hamer who is a butcher and the Hamer Butcher's Shop is advertised in the 1896 Bradshaws.

[ChrisN]

I'm sure I mentioned it in an earlier posting, but in Inverkeilor (Angus, Scotland), we had a vast improvement in water supply, instead of going down a couple of hundred yards to the church and pumping water into buckets, they put a standpipe at the end of our close in about 1953, though it may have been later, I do recall carrying a small bucket of water up from the church when I was at school there in 1952 - 53.

It was called The Close, then in the 70's posh people bought some the houses and it became 'Teapot Lane'.  It had been Redcoats army housing at one stage.  Before the name change, the toilets were at the top of the garden.

 

Penlan,

Further to my post above, maybe I should have a standpipe situated a little way away from the cottages.

 

As for the chads, I have some cards with holes, but not the chads.

[Penlan]

Further to my post above, maybe I should have a standpipe situated a little way away from the cottages.

In this village - Mousehole - there are still plenty of (non-functioning) concrete standpipe supports around with the remains of the lead supply piping still visible.. The pipe came up through the concrete, so I assume the concrete was cast around the pipe within some form of timber framing.  I believe these became disused in the early 60's. 

 

I suspect the distance to the church pump was to enable penance to be paid..   

Nothing to do with this topic.....

The parishioners used to have a token that allowed them into the church to take communion, I believe they received this token once they had proven they knew the bible etc., etc.,

 

Edited July 17, 2015 by Penlan

[corneliuslundie]

Are you sure Mr Hamer was English? It is quite a common name in mid Wales.

 

In Welsh Railways Archive there have been references to a few Hamers, eg Lewis Hamer, GWR employee, E Hamer, John Hamer, signalman, Wallace Hamer, signalman. In Volume 2 there was actually an article entitled "Trefeinon station and the Hamer family" by W H Smith.

 

There are 63 Hamers in our local telephone directory.

 

In fact could your Mr Hamer have been a lodger working for the railway?

 

I rest my case, M'Lud.

 

Jonathan

 

Edited to add the question.

Edited July 17, 2015 by corneliuslundie

[ChrisN]

Are you sure Mr Hamer was English? It is quite a common name in mid Wales.

 

In Welsh Railways Archive there have been references to a few Hamers, eg Lewis Hamer, GWR employee, E Hamer, John Hamer, signalman, Wallace Hamer, signalman. In Volume 2 there was actually an article entitled "Trefeinon station and the Hamer family" by W H Smith.

 

There are 63 Hamers in our local telephone directory.

 

In fact could your Mr Hamer have been a lodger working for the railway?

 

I rest my case, M'Lud.

 

Jonathan

 

Edited to add the question.

 

Jonathan,

You are quite right, he was Welsh, well he only spoke Welsh.  He is down as a 'Butcher's Manager' although he is only 20.  I think his dad owned the business.  He was a lodger though and the only Hamer in Barmouth at the time although the business was well established and was advertised in the 1896 Bradshaw's as providing meat for the Prince of Wales.

 

Maybe I was getting confused with the 'Golf Professional', or the 'Wine Merchant'.

 

Looking again there were actually a couple of miners in lodgings but I am not sure where the mines were for them to mine; one is a 'Lead Miner'.  There are also Slate Quarry men.  Perhaps they worked at Twill Ddu?  The quarry and mines would have to be close or they would have lodged on site.

 

There are a number of 'General Labourers', a couple of English gardeners, a couple of sailors, an accountant, a few 'Living on their own means', a dressmaker, a builder, a contractor and a farmer.  The quarrymen were all lodging in 'Penlan Cottage' and the contractor was staying in 'Penlan'.

 

In the 'Visitors' there are some professions that could be people working in or around Barmouth, rather than proper visitors, such as 3 Quarrymen staying at a lodging house, the same one as a 'Railway Clerk' and is the 'Railway Signalman' who is down as a visitor with his wife and daughter, actually a visitor, visiting his family as he came from Barmouth?  His daughter who is 4 was born in Barmouth but there is plenty of time since then to be posted away, especially as there are two other signalmen living in Barmouth at the time.

 

I am sorry, I find thid fascinating for some reason.

[Penlan]

........ a few 'Living on their own means', ........ 

The quarrymen were all lodging in 'Penlan Cottage' and the contractor was staying in 'Penlan'.

 

The first owner of one of my 1934 Austin 7's was a local postman, and I often wondered how he could afford it..
It transpires he was 'living on his own means', but was bored, so took up being the local postman to occupy his mind.. 

PENLAN !!!!!! ---     

Edited July 17, 2015 by Penlan

[Joseph_Pestell]

 

 

  Did they wear clogs in Wales, or was it just a Northern tradition? 

 

Yes, I am sure that they did. I have seen photos of my grandmothers' Welsh relatives in them.

 

It might only have been for some though. I don't suppose that clogs would be appropriate down a mine.

[ChrisN]

........ a few 'Living on their own means', ........ 

The quarrymen were all lodging in 'Penlan Cottage' and the contractor was staying in 'Penlan'.

 

The first owner of one of my 1934 Austin 7's was a local postman, and I often wondered how he could afford it..

It transpires he was 'living on his own means', but was bored, so took up being the local postman to occupy his mind.. 

 

PENLAN !!!!!! ---     

 

These were the names of the houses, or cottages, as compared to 1 Cumberland Place.

 

The best was the girl who was honest, or perhaps her father filled it in, 'Living on her Father's means'  There were a lot of single ladies who were 'Living on their own means'.

[ChrisN]

Yes, I am sure that they did. I have seen photos of my grandmothers' Welsh relatives in them.

 

It might only have been for some though. I don't suppose that clogs would be appropriate down a mine.

 

Joseph,

Thank you.  It is just how you paint the feet.  Were your relatives east or west Wales?

 

I have just done the obvious thing and Googled clogs.  Jimbo Wales has this. 

[Penlan]

 Were your relatives east or west Wales?

Oh, I thought the divide was North South ? 

Edited July 18, 2015 by Penlan