Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[ChrisN]

Removing the cork is only really necessary if you are gluing pcb down or using short screws ( a half inch screw would only be halfway into ply) I tend to use 6 &4 mm ply myself for the baseboard surfaces.

Don

 

Don,

Thank you.  I am getting there.  I cut the cork out where one screw had sheared tonight and there was just enough screw showing to get a pair of pliers to it and get it out.  I re-drilled it and a new screw went in.  After the advice about holes and screws I will use them of the fiddleyard but not on the scenic side.

[ChrisN]

I took my DE boards outside and would strongly recommend it, though your boards are bigger and more difficult to manoeuvre. Even if you could cover the room up sufficiently there is so much to spray that the room will probably smell of paint for days afterwards.

 

As for cassettes... yes plenty of time to experiment once you're able to run trains!

 

Kind regards, Neil

 

Neil,

I really ought to try the experiment but I want to get on.  I will have to take down the front board and then take down the back board to get it out.  It is designed to be moved so should not be a problem and it will be interesting how it/we cope now something is on it.

 

My wife tends not to notice things except smells.  My sense of smell is quite bad but hers is quite good so there is no way I could cover it up.  Fortunately the weather seems set fair for a while so I will get on with it in a few days time.  Even if I do not trial Larry's method I do want to trial spraying so I have no choice really.

 

I am pleased about the cassette road as I can just leave it there till later and having the extra siding in the fiddleyard will now not slow me down.

[ChrisN]

Apologies to those who do not have the books on the Cambrian, but we do come to a conclusion so you will not need them. 

 

A page or so back Anotheran mentioned that he thought that the Lanarkshire Models GWR Long Leg Buffer Stop was actually a Cambrian one.  Mike Morley said that the only picture that he had seen of one was in Christiansen's book on page 101 but he was not sure that it was actually Cambrian.  I started a hunt through the books and found other pictures.  In C.C. Green's Cambrian Album Vol 1 on page 83 there is a buffer at the end of Dinas Mawddwy station after it had been rebuilt by he Cambrian.

 

Kinder has a similar design at the end but it was photographed in 1965 so my not be original.

 

In C.C. Green's Coast line 2 page 99 there are two buffers at the end of the sidings.  The photograph appears to be an early one.  There is another on page 130 but from 1965 which is similar.

 

In discussions with Mike we would agree that he Lanarkshire Models kit is typical Cambrian.  Mike thinks the picture in Christiansen is out of territory as it appears the engine is waiting for a goods train to arrive from another system as all it has with it is a guards van.  The buffer is different from the others.

 

Thoughts would be welcome.

 

There are other points of interest.  Why do some buffers have a wooden beam and others rail?

 

I am sure I have seen a picture which I did not note down of a buffer consisting only of a wooden cross beam at the end of an island platform.

 

The picture of Dovey Junction in Coast Lines Vol 1 shows a sleeper across the rails acting as the buffer.

 

I have found no pictures of buffer stops at Dolgelley I am afraid.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks for the info on buffer stops. I think I'll get a few for Sarn. It's not really something I had thought about. Regarding the sleeper as a stop, I think sometimes a sleeper with chairs still attached was inverted and used as a makeshift bufferstop. In recent years sleepers seem to have been more common, especially when sidings were shortened. If you want something different, at Machynlleth an old Iron Mink body had a buffer beam attached and was placed at the end of a siding - there may have been two, as I am writing this from memory.

 

I have also had problems with both brass and steel screws, either shearing or half the head coming away. I think that many screws are pretty poor quality these days but you don't seem to see Guest, Keen & Nettlefold ones any more (Guest was Sir Josiah John Guest of the Dowlais Iron Company and first chairman of the Taff Vale Railway of course).

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

Thanks for the info on buffer stops. I think I'll get a few for Sarn. It's not really something I had thought about. Regarding the sleeper as a stop, I think sometimes a sleeper with chairs still attached was inverted and used as a makeshift bufferstop. In recent years sleepers seem to have been more common, especially when sidings were shortened. If you want something different, at Machynlleth an old Iron Mink body had a buffer beam attached and was placed at the end of a siding - there may have been two, as I am writing this from memory.

 

I have also had problems with both brass and steel screws, either shearing or half the head coming away. I think that many screws are pretty poor quality these days but you don't seem to see Guest, Keen & Nettlefold ones any more (Guest was Sir Josiah John Guest of the Dowlais Iron Company and first chairman of the Taff Vale Railway of course).

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

It was not something I had thought of either until it was mentioned.  I will look out for the Machynlleth picture although I will probably need as much space as possible. 

 

Screws.  I think 'Homebase Finest' are pretty poor.  Having had a discussion about sleepers I looked at the scenic side today and found I had already put screws in there.  There isa screw loose somewhere and I am not sure it is in the board.  I may take them out though.

[Budgie]

Screws.  I think 'Homebase Finest' are pretty poor.

I would never buy screws from a DIY supermarket. I get mine from Screwfix, and I've had no trouble with them.

 

Incidentally, for very small woodscrews (sizes 0, 1 and 2) I go to Modelfixings (usual disclaimer).

[ChrisN]

I would never buy screws from a DIY supermarket. I get mine from Screwfix, and I've had no trouble with them.

 

Incidentally, for very small woodscrews (sizes 0, 1 and 2) I go to Modelfixings (usual disclaimer).

 

Jane,

Thank you.  I will have to try Screwfix although I tend to go to one shop and bu everything.

 

I have bookmarked the above link and will look through it when I have time.

[Simond]

I too use Screwfix, but do be aware that they are part of B&Q

 

best

Simon

[ChrisN]

Just a little bit of fun.

When I get chance in the evenings to do some modelling I tend to have several things on the go at once, the house, chairs, a desk, a wagon but fir some reason I got distracted and decided that as my figures were Edwardian and I am modelling 1895 I really ought to try and adapt some of my lady figures to the distinctive fashion of that year.  The sleeves were at their largest and although I could argue that a lot of the ladies in Traeth Mawr were not up to date in their clothing or could not afford new ones the visitors certainly should be. 

 

I took four sitting ladies who will be on the station and doctored them.  The first one, on the right below I use DAS to get the effect I wanted.  The trouble with my DAS is hat it is drying out and really past the stage of fine moulding.  The next two I used FIMO which is a modelling clay that should be baked in the oven.  It moulds much better than the DAS.  The last lady I added what was a fashion accessory of that era for ladies, a tie. 

 

The pack says that FIMO should be cured by heating at 110⁰ C for 30 minutes.  Not wishing to do this on my figures I sat them on a bench in the window and left them for a couple of weeks.  (So^ome of the FIMO had gone off since my wife used it two years ago so there was a little hope.)  It did not work.  I googled the melting point of pewter and thought.  I then emailed Andrew Stadden and asked his advice.  He said that the specified melting point for his figures was 205⁰ C but his figures would distort long before that so not to go above 100⁰ C.  This is what I decided to do.  Below is a picture of all four of them, they seem a little nervous.  (I was as well.)

 

 

I heated our electric fan oven as I wanted to be certain of the temperature, placed the ladies on a baking tray and put them in.  There is a light and the door is clean, (hardly used you see), so I could see them.  I kept on checking them but they seemed fine.  After half an hour as they were alright I extended the time for another 10 minutes.  I turned the oven off and left it to cool.  I then opened the door slightly, and after about 15 minutes got them out and left them to cool on the side.  I did not want them to cool down too quickly.  I think I was not the only one wondering how it would turn out.

 

 

After a couple of hours I put them back on their seat and took a photo.  they seem much happier now, and I am quite pleased as well.

 

 

I will leave the lady with DAS sleeves as she is because if you look at the pictures on the link some sleeves are quite ruffled, there are others that are quite smooth.  I will now have to paint them as Andrew Stadden asked me to show him the results of my efforts.  I have shown him the before and after pictures so he could see they did not melt, but he would probably like to see the final result.  No pressure then.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[BG John]

I hope it had gone out of fashion by 1905, so I don't have to do it eventually in 4mm, and even worse in 7mm if it was still in in 1910!

[Anotheran]

I hope it had gone out of fashion by 1905, so I don't have to do it eventually in 4mm, and even worse in 7mm if it was still in in 1910!

 

I thought exactly the same... if you follow the link that Chris posted and change the end of the url from 1895 to 1900 it appears to have gone out of fashion by 1900. So apparently good news. Unfortunately the site seems to stop at 1900, so there's no guarantee it didn't come back for the one year in 1905 or 1910.

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris, thanks for that useful and entertaining post! It's so nice to see figures being taken seriously. Death to the stick people! 

 

I sometimes wonder whether we (including myself I hasten to add) are misrepresenting the Victorian/Edwardian scene a bit with all these well-dressed women. How did the ordinary farmer's or labourers wife dress when travelling by train? Did they put on their best clothes, and if so how did it look?

 

There don't seem to be many photos of the common lady Third class passenger during this period. Or did they really all look so smart?

 

Assuming of course that they did travel by train, but I suppose at the turn of the century Third class travel was affordable enough for it to happen. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Mikkel

[ChrisN]

I hope it had gone out of fashion by 1905, so I don't have to do it eventually in 4mm, and even worse in 7mm if it was still in in 1910!

 

 

I thought exactly the same... if you follow the link that Chris posted and change the end of the url from 1895 to 1900 it appears to have gone out of fashion by 1900. So apparently good news. Unfortunately the site seems to stop at 1900, so there's no guarantee it didn't come back for the one year in 1905 or 1910.

 

John and Neil,

You are lucky for two reasons, firstly it did not come back, and secondly Stadden's figures are Edwardian.  He has some 0 gauge figures but not as many.  If you look here or  for the American equivalent, here you will see Stadden's figures are spot on.  Of course not everyone wore fashionable clothing in everyday life, and clothes lasted a lot longer than now, but the richer you were the more you would get the latest fashion to keep up appearances.

 

Actually, thinking about it, doing this in 7mm would be a doddle as you would have something larger to deal with, but again thinking as I type, I suppose you would need to put in more detail so it would be worse.

Edited July 13, 2015 by ChrisN

[Donw]

Seeing as Chris is modelling a Welsh place I suspect the local population was somewhat poor. The Cambrian and the local businesses aimed a lot of advertising at the better off English Hotels would mention suitable fishing etc. I think the tourist trade was vital to both. Obviously someone used the trains but I find it hard to believe that local working class women used them very much in those days except perhaps on market days. The slightly better of women the doctor's, bank manager's and vicar's wives would all probably use the trains and maybe some of the better off farmers would take there wives along on market day. So my view is that the better dressed women would have been a fair proportion of the lady passengers. 

Don

[Donw]

Chris in remote rural areas fashions sometimes lingered on and I suspect elderly ladies may be dressed  quite old fashioned.

Don

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris, thanks for that useful and entertaining post! It's so nice to see figures being taken seriously. Death to the stick people! 

 

I sometimes wonder whether we (including myself I hasten to add) are misrepresenting the Victorian/Edwardian scene a bit with all these well-dressed women. How did the ordinary farmer's or labourers wife dress when travelling by train? Did they put on their best clothes, and if so how did it look?

 

There don't seem to be many photos of the common lady Third class passenger during this period. Or did they really all look so smart?

 

Assuming of course that they did travel by train, but I suppose at the turn of the century Third class travel was affordable enough for it to happen. 

 

Mikkel,

I think that is an interesting question but we do know the lower classes travelled as there were so many third class carriages.  I think some travelled to work, as there were 'Workman's Fares' as so would have worn what they wore to work.  Holidays also were happening even if the whole factory closed down for a week or so and everyone went off together and they would have worn their best clothes at that time.  In the Victorian and Edwardian eras, and I think well into the 20th century as I am old enough to remember this before the 60s swept it away to an extent, you were what you wore, and you tried very hard to look your best when you were out.  (Sunday best was only worn on Sundays and special occasions.)

 

Here is a picture I can across recently of a 'Hiring Fair'.  The link explains it but the lady in the background is poor, but has done her best to match the smart appearances of the type of people who will hire her daughter.  Looking at it today I think it is late 1890s because the sleeves of the lady in front are small, but the ones of the lady at the back appear quite large.  Looking at the length I would think that the clothing the lady at the back is wearing is either old, or second hand or both.  I am going to have a post about this picture in a couple of months or so because, yes, I want to recreate it somewhere on my layout although the market square will be on the narrow gauge one.

[Penlan]

ChrisN - I was intrigued by the motif (fox?) on the hiring lady's handbag.

[ChrisN]

Seeing as Chris is modelling a Welsh place I suspect the local population was somewhat poor. The Cambrian and the local businesses aimed a lot of advertising at the better off English Hotels would mention suitable fishing etc. I think the tourist trade was vital to both. Obviously someone used the trains but I find it hard to believe that local working class women used them very much in those days except perhaps on market days. The slightly better of women the doctor's, bank manager's and vicar's wives would all probably use the trains and maybe some of the better off farmers would take there wives along on market day. So my view is that the better dressed women would have been a fair proportion of the lady passengers. 

Don

 

Don,

I think you are right to an extent.  I think married women were tied to the home.  I remember my mother having to go shopping several times a week for food, even once we had a fridge, so late 19th century there would have been very little let up.  Market days were probably different as they would have travelled to get things they needed.

 

I meant to multi quote, but I am sure for poorer families they bought clothes when they were needed and wore them until they fell apart, which unlike today was probably years later.  I suppose to if you made your own clothes you made what you were used to wearing.

[ChrisN]

ChrisN - I was intrigued by the motif (fox?) on the hiring lady's handbag.

 

Penlan,

I had seen it but not noticed it if you see what I mean, or should that be the other way round?  It is interesting, I wonder if it had any significance other than decoration?

[Mikkel]

Interesting discussion, some good points there. It's probably true that many simple folk would still try to dress as close as possible to what the better-off wore. I thunk I'll see if I can fashion a stout elderly lady in plain black though, eg:

 

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/victorian-lives/working-class-family/

 

Thanks for making me aware of hiring fairs Chris, I had an interesting read about those.

[ChrisN]

Mikkel,

I have only just come across hiring fairs almost by accident.  It is interesting that in school records in Wales, (The only ones  have seen so it could have happened elsewhere as well), certain days no one turned up for school as it was the hiring fair.  Obviously the same thought as is in some areas today, better to have a job than 'waste time' in school, although the economic difficulties were probably worse then.

 

'A figure in black'.  We now have Stadden's figures, Langley's, plus some others and yet we both are busy modifying others.  I can feel a Milliput session coming on.

[Anotheran]

It wasn't just for the hiring fairs. Both my Mum and Dad have told me that at certain times, lambing season for instance, many children would simply not turn up to school because they were expected to help at home on the farm, which was seen as far more important than a formal education, and this was in the late 1940s let alone late Victorian times. Dad was in Builth Wells, Mum just along the road in Llanwrtyd. Mind you, they were different times. Mum has talked of one lad who walked three miles each way from one of the hill farms in all weathers, alone, at the age of five! In his second year he was even the only one in the school (out of about twenty in total) to be awarded a prize at the end of the year for a perfect attendance record! Nowadays a parent will drive even teenagers to school if they have to go half a mile on a well lit path in the middle of a perfect summer!

Edited July 10, 2015 by Anotheran

[Donw]

Neil  makes a good point. I believe the long school summer holiday was based on the Harvest time when farms would need all the labour they could find. In the Shropshire hills many kids would walk a couple of miles or more each day to school. Into the fifties. From the age of 7 to 11 I walked about 1.5 miles each way. People walked to work mostly our legacy of footpaths is a result of their journeys

Don

[Penlan]

... and in Scotland (or at least in County Angus) the school holidays where phased to allow children off for potato picking and the raspberry harvests, or at least they did in the early 50's when I was at school up there..
 

[mike morley]

A bit of Googling suggests it is no longer available, but at one time the records from the village school at Cwm Belan (immediately south of Llanidloes) were available on line and a regular complaint was the way a high percentage of the pupils did not attend school during harvest time.  The records covered several decades and several headmasters and the latters attitude varied from resignation to annoyance.

 

Edit

Found it!  http://history.powys.org.uk/history/llani/belan1.html

I'm a bit of a dunce with links, so if it doesn't work, Google "cwmbelan school". The mistake I was making was turning Cwmbelan into two words.

The records cover the period 1872 to 1945.

Edited July 11, 2015 by mike morley