Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[RSLR]

Tis nice to see some pictures Chris, I look forward to seeing more developments!

[Donw]

Something like this Chris

 

 

This is the Cambrian building at Dolgelley. I will be building this in due course. The photo is courtesy of Peter Smith.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Something like this Chris

 

img011.jpg

 

This is the Cambrian building at Dolgelley. I will be building this in due course. The photo is courtesy of Peter Smith.

 

Don

 

Don,

Yes, but mine will be a little longer.  The canopy is beautiful in an ugly and functional sort of way if you see what I mean.   I do like the 'fish' design in the supports.  Barmouth is stone with brick quoins I believe, so I shall be building mine like that.

 

I like the picture even if the building is passed its best.

Edited June 15, 2015 by ChrisN

[Donw]

It is funny but in some ways the detail is clearer as there is little distractions like people posters etc.

Don

[ChrisN]

Just a brief update.  Things have been progressing on several fronts, but not quickly, and not enough for photos really although I have some and when I get further I will put them up.  (When I say not quickly I mean that the snails I have been racing have charged past me and disappeared into the distance.   )

 

I have continued with the points into the fiddleyard.  I had about seven to attach wires to.  After a few wire tinnings, it suddenly clicked and went smoothly.  I then started to tin the points and attach the wires and again after a couple it clicked and went really well. This does not mean that they are not dry joints but I can always hope!  Unfortunately I was interrupted and it took a few goes to get the technique back. 

 

Track ready with wires I then marked and drilled the holes where the wires should go.  It seems not matter how carefully you mark, the holes are almost, but not quite, in the wrong place.  The points go in, and they fit but there seems to be a strain on the wires.  I said previously that I had started making holes in the baseboard, and decided that it would be better if I made the holes with the points fixed to track that was not just pinned in place, which in theory could not move, but glued down so that in practise it could not move.  Offering up the new points to the fixed track I found that, as I had expected, the holes have moved!  (Tricky things these holes.)  This of course meant opening out the holes a bit more before I put the PVA down, providing I remembered.     I then held them in place with drawing pins, put my plywood ends on then and piles books on top.  When I took the books and boards off today all the track had yellowed.  Answers on a postcard please!

 

So, so far on the right hand side I have a scenic point, a curve, and a curved point.  On the left hand side I have three curved points.  I need to add the two extra curved points on the right and then I can lay the fiddleyard track which in theory I have planned out but will have to work it out as I go.  I am having to resist the temptation of laying more scenic track which seems to be the logical thing to do as one lot is drying off, and remind myself I have to at least trila Coachman's method of track laying and ballasting in one go.

 

I am also considering another short point and siding in the fiddleyard which would take the slate wagons so I could have an off scene exchange siding which would simplify the scenic and make room for a cattle dock.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[ChrisN]

I should probably tell you what I have been up to although you probably do not wish to know that I spilt a fair bit of Copydex down a perfectly good pair of cords and I think I have ruined them. 

 

I glued the last two sets of curved points down for the fiddleyard having sorted out the holes underneath them which had definitely moved since I first did them. I then went about laying the track between the two sets of curves as I wanted to know where they crossed the join so that I could place the screws to secure the rails.  Here is a picture so far.  (Please excuse all the rubbish, we only moved in two years ago and.......)

 

 

The far end was more critical as being on a curve I had to ensure that each track was far enough apart so that there was no fouling as far along as possible.  I dug out what bogie coaches I have and to my surprise they were not all Mk1s.  Two are Thompson or Gresley or something.  Love 'em.  I remember going on coaches like that, corridor one side but doors into each compartment.  Proper coaches.  I digress.  Here is a picture of the other end.

 

 

This one is of the middle.  Not all of the two sets of flexitrack meet but it is enough to get the position of where they should be. 

 

 

There will be an isolation break in the track equidistant between the two ends of the fiddleyard.  I decided to put a Dean Goods and a mixture of six wheeled items to form a 'train to see if the length was adequate.  (Hard luck if it is not anyway but I thought I would see.)

 

 

You will see that it may be for an ordinary train but when I have up to three through carriages I could well be struggling.  You will also notice that I have added an extra siding.  It was just going to be for an 'exchange siding' off stage for the slate wagons but I had a serious look at the stock I needed andhow many trains would run each day.  On a normal winters day there will be at least 8  or maybe 9 passing through, the Dolgelley train counted as one.  It made sense therefore to use this siding for that train as it only runs backwards and forwards.  I am not sure this will actually be big enough as I will need 8 locomotives, about 20 coaches, a luggage van and all the through coaches.  Interesting.

 

I then went on and with a felt tip marked where the track is so that when I remove it to add wires, I will know where to put it back.  I also moved the track on the near board so that I could put the screws in to attach the rail at the edge of the board.  I had used half inch brass but decided that three quarters would be better as it would hold the wood better.  I used a gimlet to make the hole and screwed them in.  The third one sheered off.  I moved it back slightly and did them again.  I got the next two in no problem, but on the fourth track it happened again.  I then realised that I could not move it back enough as I will not be in the end ply.  What to do?  I think it was Don suggested that I use a sleeper at the end, not sure what type, or how to fix them to the board as I cannot find the entry.  I had thought of doing it on the scenic section as the screws make a horribly big gap.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Simond]

Chris

 

You may find gapped copperclad, Araldited to the board edge, will provide the location you need

 

HTH

Simon

[Anotheran]

It's looking good Chris, and certainly moving on more quickly than me. It's a nice simple design of FY that looks pretty effective for the sort of station you're going to be running. A few thoughts...

 

You said that you're going to put isolation breaks in equidistant between the two ends. How far away from the board join would that be? The reason I ask is that if it was me then for the sake of an inch or two either way I'd have the isolation break at the board join. Saves gapping somewhere else and makes wiring slightly easier across the boards.

 

Secondly, have you considered making your siding a cassette station. The way you describe it you've got potentially quite a lot of different items that need to make occasional appearances and cassettes may be a way to do that.

 

Finally. I have used screws on DE and been very pleased with the way they ended up looking after I'd spent the time to put in cosmetic sleepers around them. So although I was originally considering copper clad sleepers for NE I'm no longer sure. I don't know which will be more secure.

 

Kind regards, Neil

[mike morley]

, have you considered making your siding a cassette station.

 

I did that on a 7mm narrow gauge layout I built a few years ago and it was very useful.

 

The only possible problem in Chris's case is that the need for it to be set into the baseboard really means it needs to be designed-in, and Traeth Mawr has already passed that stage.  A possible alternative could be to have the cassettes surface mounted with an approach slope.  The problem there might be whether there is enough room for both a sufficiently gentle gradient on the slope and a cassette long enough to make the undertaking worthwhile.

[Anotheran]

The only possible problem in Chris's case is that the need for it to be set into the baseboard really means it needs to be designed-in

 

On DE the cassette design that I've come to, using a mix of aluminium angle, mount board and MDF means it can sit on board at the same hight as the cork underlay. So there's no need to set it in. In hindsight I would have set it in as it would have made cassette construction one step fewer, but all is not lost at the same level.

[ChrisN]

Simon and Neil,

Thank you for your comments.  When it was first suggested that I use sleepers my first thought was that a screw into the board would be more secure.  However, the board join where I have already done that has an enormous gap between the sleepers and will need a bit of work to make it look acceptable.  I was not that worried on the fiddleyard.  However, the screws shearing has caused more than a slight problem as I have to do something different on those lines.

 

Neil, what length of screw did you use?  I am a bit perplexed that they did shear as the holes were made before they went in.  It seems, make the hole too big and the screw will come out, make it to small and the screw shears.

[ChrisN]

Neil,

In terms of where the gap is, if you look at the third picture it is half way between the ends of the track placed on the board.  The problem I have with this design is that if I gap it at the join then I will have only very short roads for the 'up' trains and much longer oes for the down.

 

Do not be deceived these lines are only laid in place, they are not glued down and as yet do not have any wires attached.

[Simond]

Chris

 

Buy good screws...

 

Check out the www - there will undoubtedly be tables of screw size vs hole size - make sure the hole is deeper that the screw is long.

 

(Example. https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=wood+screw+drilling+chart&imgrc=-SPl9XgbnGz5oM%3A)

 

A drop of oil on the thread before you go in.

 

You should be all set...

 

(But araldite a bit of copperclad onto the baseboard edge & solder your rails to it - very strong!)

 

Best

Simon

[ChrisN]

Neil and Mike,

A cassette in the fiddleyard?  Well the cork is already there but I have wandered the PVA around in a sort of sine wave and did not spread it out so if I need to I could take some of it up.  I had not thought of one as I had always considered cassettes for end to end work but the idea does appeal.  What I shall do is not fix that line down and rely on rail joiners for current and when I see how the whole thing works I will revisit it.  Thank you both.

[ChrisN]

Chris

 

Buy good screws...

 

Check out the www - there will undoubtedly be tables of screw size vs hole size - make sure the hole is deeper that the screw is long.

 

(Example. https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=wood+screw+drilling+chart&imgrc=-SPl9XgbnGz5oM%3A)

 

A drop of oil on the thread before you go in.

 

You should be all set...

 

(But araldite a bit of copperclad onto the baseboard edge & solder your rails to it - very strong!)

 

Best

Simon

 

Simon,

Thank you.  I have always made the holes shorter than the screw so that there was something to bite into.  Maybe ok with steel screws but not brass.  I think I have made to much of a mess to continue with screws so it will be an order of copperclads I think.  They may be a bit thin so it would be a couple soldered together.  More practise! 

[Simond]

Chris

 

You can stick it to a bit of plastic, wood, whatever. Even cardboard, as long as the epoxy soaks through!

 

Best

Simon

[Donw]

I prefer to remove the cork if any from under the PCB and use a bit of ply packing as the cork is not that strong.  What wood are you using Chris I have had even steel screws shearing in oak but don't have trouble with softwood.

Don

[Anotheran]

Neil, what length of screw did you use?  I am a bit perplexed that they did shear as the holes were made before they went in.  It seems, make the hole too big and the screw will come out, make it to small and the screw shears.

 

I've used 18mm (three quarter inch) brass screws (one road used 12mm as at that point I didn't have any 18mm and was impatient) into a pilot hole that is deeper than the screw is long. They're going into 9mm ply with 3mm of cork on top. As I have to leave them almost 2mm proud of the surface (sleeper height) they're only going a few mm into the battens, though my battens are softwood, not ply, so that's much less of an effort. It could be that going into the edge of the ply is harder, but I would have thought with a pilot you shouldn't get them shearing.

 

Neil, In terms of where the gap is, if you look at the third picture it is half way between the ends of the track placed on the board.  The problem I have with this design is that if I gap it at the join then I will have only very short roads for the 'up' trains and much longer oes for the down.

 

I guessed that may be the case. Ah well... a gap away from the join it is then

 

A cassette in the fiddleyard?  Well the cork is already there but I have wandered the PVA around in a sort of sine wave and did not spread it out so if I need to I could take some of it up.  I had not thought of one as I had always considered cassettes for end to end work but the idea does appeal.  What I shall do is not fix that line down and rely on rail joiners for current and when I see how the whole thing works I will revisit it.  Thank you both.

 

That sounds like a good plan to me. Try what you've got and see if it works. As for removing cork for cassettes, you'd only need to remove a strip just a little wider than the width of the cassettes themselves... that would actually assist in lining them up when placing them on the board. I've spent a lot of time looking at fiddle yards at shows (even though so many inconsiderate exhibitors insist on placing scenic backboards in the way of my viewing ) just to see what kind of cassettes if any people use and in what situation. It's been quite illuminating to see them in operation even on full circuit layouts as well as end to end. They just mean that a relatively modest fiddle yard can be enhanced stock wise when a special is needed.

 

Kind regards, Neil

[ChrisN]

Chris

 

You can stick it to a bit of plastic, wood, whatever. Even cardboard, as long as the epoxy soaks through!

 

Best

Simon

 

Simon,

Sounds like a plan to me.  I had thought it should be glue the copperclads and solder the rails to them but I can glue all of it.

[ChrisN]

I prefer to remove the cork if any from under the PCB and use a bit of ply packing as the cork is not that strong.  What wood are you using Chris I have had even steel screws shearing in oak but don't have trouble with softwood.

Don

 

Don,

I am screwing through 9mm ply into the end of 9mm ply.  I shall certainly remove the end piece of cork.  I have some 4mm and 2mm ply so I shall see what I can do.

[ChrisN]

I've used 18mm (three quarter inch) brass screws (one road used 12mm as at that point I didn't have any 18mm and was impatient) into a pilot hole that is deeper than the screw is long. They're going into 9mm ply with 3mm of cork on top. As I have to leave them almost 2mm proud of the surface (sleeper height) they're only going a few mm into the battens, though my battens are softwood, not ply, so that's much less of an effort. It could be that going into the edge of the ply is harder, but I would have thought with a pilot you shouldn't get them shearing.

 

 

I guessed that may be the case. Ah well... a gap away from the join it is then

 

 

That sounds like a good plan to me. Try what you've got and see if it works. As for removing cork for cassettes, you'd only need to remove a strip just a little wider than the width of the cassettes themselves... that would actually assist in lining them up when placing them on the board. I've spent a lot of time looking at fiddle yards at shows (even though so many inconsiderate exhibitors insist on placing scenic backboards in the way of my viewing ) just to see what kind of cassettes if any people use and in what situation. It's been quite illuminating to see them in operation even on full circuit layouts as well as end to end. They just mean that a relatively modest fiddle yard can be enhanced stock wise when a special is needed.

 

Kind regards, Neil

 

Neil,

Yes I have 3mm of cork, then ply, then end on ply which is why I thought half inch was too short.  Oh well, it is gluing with ply me thinks. 

 

I looked at the far end and thought, 'OOh I could glue that end as I do not have to worry about the board join.  I could do that anytime!'  Then I realised I needed to solder wires to it.  Not much of a job but one you need to remember to do before you glue the track down! 

 

I am getting cold feet about ballasting as I lay track just because I will need to spray paint first.  This is mainly because the room the layout is in is the spare bedroom and although my wife is very easy going I would have to cover the place in dust sheets before I started.  The other possibility is that I take a board down and take it outside.  She probably would not notice red and grey grass. 

 

I think building a cassette is a good job for when the track is down and I have time to experiment.

[Simond]

Simon,

Sounds like a plan to me.  I had thought it should be glue the copperclads and solder the rails to them but I can glue all of it.

Do hope I didn't confuse - I meant that you should solder the rails to gapped copperclad, which is glued to whatever spacers are required to ensure it's all level.

 

The epoxy will bond the copperclad to the spacers and the spacers to the baseboard.

 

In principle you could epoxy the rails to a block of wood, but given the relatively small area for adhesion, I feel that soldering would be more robust.

 

Best

Simon

[Donw]

Don,

I am screwing through 9mm ply into the end of 9mm ply.  I shall certainly remove the end piece of cork.  I have some 4mm and 2mm ply so I shall see what I can do.

 

Removing the cork is only really necessary if you are gluing pcb down or using short screws ( a half inch screw would only be halfway into ply) I tend to use 6 &4 mm ply myself for the baseboard surfaces.

Don

[Anotheran]

The other possibility is that I take a board down and take it outside.  She probably would not notice red and grey grass. 

 

I think building a cassette is a good job for when the track is down and I have time to experiment.

 

I took my DE boards outside and would strongly recommend it, though your boards are bigger and more difficult to manoeuvre. Even if you could cover the room up sufficiently there is so much to spray that the room will probably smell of paint for days afterwards.

 

As for cassettes... yes plenty of time to experiment once you're able to run trains!

 

Kind regards, Neil

[ChrisN]

Do hope I didn't confuse - I meant that you should solder the rails to gapped copperclad, which is glued to whatever spacers are required to ensure it's all level.

 

The epoxy will bond the copperclad to the spacers and the spacers to the baseboard.

 

In principle you could epoxy the rails to a block of wood, but given the relatively small area for adhesion, I feel that soldering would be more robust.

 

Best

Simon

 

Simon,

Thank you, that is clear now.  I will definitely go that route for the scenic boards.