Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[Donw]

Nice work Chris. I would agree that the true cottage furniture would have been rather basic and not of the finest quality. However I assume mechanisation spread to furniture making along with everything else. The Arts and Crafts Movement would I think have been in the finer homes. The movement was changing things long before Art Deco arrived.

The Dean Heritage centre has a Victorian Forrester's cottage. I believe the Railwayman's cottage which used to be next door the the Swindon railway museum is no longer there.

Our first house was a victorian cottage which had changed little before we set to work. When we bought it everyone suggested removing the old range. Marion spent hours removing the rust. When we sold it the estate agents were saying what a splendid feature it was.

 

Don

[corneliuslundie]

There is a terrace of ironworkers, houses from Rhyd y Car at St Fagans with each one set up internally for a different date. It might be worth looking at them: "The six houses have been displayed at different periods of their history, namely 1805, 1855, 1895, 1925, 1955 and 1985".

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

Looks good Chris, I think 'Victorian' décor was pretty basic in country cottages unless the occupants had lots of cash, mainly consisting of handmade wooden tables and chairs... probably wouldn't have changed much either until the Art Deco period when furniture (among other things) started to look really cool. 

 

I find watching programs/films set in periods useful, they're normally informative on the odd details such as the interiors of buildings during a specific period.

 

Reece,

Thank you.  I have tried to keep things simple and the sideboard is fairly basic except that it may be made out of a posh wood.  I just wanted to try something a little different.  I am not quite sure where a cottage of this size fits in the scheme of things.  I will, I think do some smaller cottages which will be much easier as they will probably be one room.

 

There is a second room downstairs, which may be the 'Parlour'.  What I put in there will be interesting because depending on what sort of person would live in a cottage like this depends on whether they could afford 'comfy' chairs.

 

In the original terrace of cottages this comes from all the others next to it are smaller.  The terrace is called if I remember rightly Sportsman's Terrace and this is Sportsman's Cottage so I get the impression that it was better accommodation for those those slightly further up the rung of life.

[ChrisN]

Nice work Chris. I would agree that the true cottage furniture would have been rather basic and not of the finest quality. However I assume mechanisation spread to furniture making along with everything else. The Arts and Crafts Movement would I think have been in the finer homes. The movement was changing things long before Art Deco arrived.

The Dean Heritage centre has a Victorian Forrester's cottage. I believe the Railwayman's cottage which used to be next door the the Swindon railway museum is no longer there.

Our first house was a victorian cottage which had changed little before we set to work. When we bought it everyone suggested removing the old range. Marion spent hours removing the rust. When we sold it the estate agents were saying what a splendid feature it was.

 

Don

 

Don,

As I said to Reece, I have tried to keep the furniture basic.  I have 'Googled' 'Victorian Cottage XXXX' where XXXX is chairs, tables etc.  What I should probably do is look for heritage centres and see if they have any pictures.  When we go away I will also see if I can drag my wife around somewhere like that.

 

I have already made a range which I will put up in a day or two, just need to take another couple of photos.  I would like a range, but unfortunately they do not really go in an 80's, (1980's that is), council house!

[ChrisN]

There is a terrace of ironworkers, houses from Rhyd y Car at St Fagans with each one set up internally for a different date. It might be worth looking at them: "The six houses have been displayed at different periods of their history, namely 1805, 1855, 1895, 1925, 1955 and 1985".

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  That is very useful, although I am not down that way often and it is probably too far to persuade my son that I should that his children there for a day out.

[Penlan]

  I would like a range, but unfortunately they do not really go in an 80's, (1980's that is), council house!

There are dozens of houses in my Village that feature both active and cosmetic Cornish Ranges.

They are all real ones, just some use proper fuel and some have an electric light bulb behind an imaginary fire.

[corneliuslundie]

There are quite a few photos of the interiors of the Rhyd y Car houses on the St Fagans website, though I didn't see any of the 1895 one. If we visit again this summer I will be sure to take as many photos as I can.

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

There are quite a few photos of the interiors of the Rhyd y Car houses on the St Fagans website, though I didn't see any of the 1895 one. If we visit again this summer I will be sure to take as many photos as I can.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I looked after I saw your post but did not find any but I shall look again.  any photos would be brilliant, thank you.

[BG John]

I think this is the 1895 house at St Fagans. I took a few of each of them, but didn't record which was which! If it's the wrong one, I can try again!

 

 

[ChrisN]

I think this is the 1895 house at St Fagans. I took a few of each of them, but didn't record which was which! If it's the wrong one, I can try again!

DSCF8957.JPG

 

DSCF8958.JPG

 

DSCF8959.JPG

 

John,

Thank you so much.  I have tried this evening to look for pictures of inside cottages but none were in colour.  I have just found the images from the museum of the 1895 house and they were black and white.  (1895 I suppose they would be!   )  What is so interesting about these pictures, apart from the fact there are three and not the museum two, is that they look Victorian even though they do not have the same amount of clutter as richer houses, but because they are in colour it shows more soft furnishing than I would have expected for a standard working class cottage.  Well not exactly soft furnishings, but cushions, and one of those felt table cloths.  I cannot remember whose house I saw one in but I think they had a cotton tablecloth over the top for dinner.  There is the bed warmer and the candles and the little ornaments.......  Sorry I am getting all excited and I can imagine my wife's eyes glazing over.  Is that an aspidistra in the window?  I also see that someone found a reasonable sized table for them, maybe I should try again, umm. 

 

I think my cottage may be a bit more Spartan than that as I think I will struggle to recreate the same feel.  I knew I would never really be able to do it in a middle class house but this is the same but with less stuff.  They have pictures as well, which I did not expect.  I shall stop rambling, except to say the colour of the chairs which is similar to the colour of the table in the bedroom is the colour I have tried to capture on the chairs and table.

[Trains&armour]

Just to prove I have done some modelling, and before I ask lots more questions I will put up some pictures.  The happy couple have a sideboard.

 

Sideboard 0.jpg

 

The sideboard has been made from 20 thou plasticard, the size worked out from, well other sideboards and the design style from this:-

 

sideboard.jpg

 

This was available on eBay, but sorry if you wanted it, you missed it.  There were several similar that I found by googling 'Victorian cottage sideboard', or something similar.  I tried measuring the whole four sides and using an Olfa cutter to score the inside and then fold it, but the fold lines cracked in a wiggly line, so I started again.  Next time it was too tall and I forgot that if it is 7mm from front to back and you make the side 7mm it is too wide as you have to allow for the thickness of the plasticard.  Second attempt looked like this:-

 

Sideboard 0a.jpg

 

The next was thinner, as well as shorter, as I needed to make the front.  To do this I marked the front on a piece of 10 thou plasticard, scored out the doors and the drawers and cut the panels.  it was then cut out and was glued to the front of the little box.  Before the box was made I had scored the sides to make planking:-

 

Sideboard 1.jpg

 

You may notice that there are handles in the drawers.  These were cut from plasticard rods, not sure of the size maybe 0.6mm, as I had to drill little holes to put them in as my usual method of sticking something really long on something and then cutting would not have worked.  You may also see, if you try really hard that I have done the same with the doors but the handles are even smaller.

 

I forgot to download a picture of the side to show that it was planked.  I also forgot to add the wooden rim around the top before I painted it, and once I had painted it, well it would have been difficult.  The painting is with Humbrol 62, Leather.  It was not quite dry brushed but the coverage was quite thin and was intentional.  Why?  Well I wanted it to look like this:-

 

Sideboard 2.jpg

 

Well it convinced my youngest son who recognised it before I said where it came from.  I am not sure what wood it is but it is probably something really expensive that would never have been found in a cottage like this.  Never mind, I like it and wanted to try and do it.  Something a little different.

 

I am very slowly building a grate, well having repaired it after I trod on it, but more of that later, much later as I add I piece a day and there are six or seven pieces to go.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

Hi Chris  I've have been browsing your thread just now. Very inspirational!  And some nice modelling too, as above. But you forgot to model the Rhino in the second picture. A shame, it would have added so much more to the scene....

[Penlan]

Those 1895 St Fagan's pictures show interiors far more sophisticated than those seen in contemporary paintings by the Newlyn School of artist.
I think I would be with ChrisN and look to a more spartan appearance.
In fact those St Fagan pictures show interiors looking nicer than some of the Holiday lets available now in west Cornwall.

Typical - I search Google images for an example and zilch.. bar this one below.
I'm a Steward at Penlee Gallery and I know there are some c.1900 interior paintings in their collection, but can I find them on the web.. No.
 

Edited April 23, 2015 by Penlan

[BG John]

John,

Thank you so much.  I have tried this evening to look for pictures of inside cottages but none were in colour.  I have just found the images from the museum of the 1895 house and they were black and white.  (1895 I suppose they would be!   )  What is so interesting about these pictures, apart from the fact there are three and not the museum two, is that they look Victorian even though they do not have the same amount of clutter as richer houses, but because they are in colour it shows more soft furnishing than I would have expected for a standard working class cottage.  Well not exactly soft furnishings, but cushions, and one of those felt table cloths.  I cannot remember whose house I saw one in but I think they had a cotton tablecloth over the top for dinner.  There is the bed warmer and the candles and the little ornaments.......  Sorry I am getting all excited and I can imagine my wife's eyes glazing over.  Is that an aspidistra in the window?  I also see that someone found a reasonable sized table for them, maybe I should try again, umm. 

 

I think my cottage may be a bit more Spartan than that as I think I will struggle to recreate the same feel.  I knew I would never really be able to do it in a middle class house but this is the same but with less stuff.  They have pictures as well, which I did not expect.  I shall stop rambling, except to say the colour of the chairs which is similar to the colour of the table in the bedroom is the colour I have tried to capture on the chairs and table.

 

These are, I think, the 1855 house. I imagine a lot of people would be living in something more like this in the 1890s. People didn't just throw stuff out and buy new when fashions changed! The 1895 house looks pretty familiar to me, despite having been born in the 1950s! It's probably pretty clean and sanitised compared to how it would have appeared with a large family living in it!

 

 

 

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris  I've have been browsing your thread just now. Very inspirational!  And some nice modelling too, as above. But you forgot to model the Rhino in the second picture. A shame, it would have added so much more to the scene....

 

Sierd,

Maybe I can have it hiding around the corner. 

[ChrisN]

Those 1895 St Fagan's pictures show interiors far more sophisticated than those seen in contemporary paintings by the Newlyn School of artist.

I think I would be with ChrisN and look to a more spartan appearance.

In fact those St Fagan pictures show interiors looking nicer than some of the Holiday lets available now in west Cornwall.

Typical - I search Google images for an example and zilch.. bar this one below.

I'm a Steward at Penlee Gallery and I know there are some c.1900 interior paintings in their collection, but can I find them on the web.. No.

 

 

Penlan,

Thank you for this.  I am sure over the years I have seen pictures, and visited heritage centres but because I was not looking specifically for the information I did not take it in.  My wife made a point last night that the Victorians were into mass production so things were becoming cheaper and people would have spent any spare cash on showing that they were getting on in life.  I am not sure how much these workers in these cottages would have had spare.

[ChrisN]

These are, I think, the 1855 house. I imagine a lot of people would be living in something more like this in the 1890s. People didn't just throw stuff out and buy new when fashions changed! The 1895 house looks pretty familiar to me, despite having been born in the 1950s! It's probably pretty clean and sanitised compared to how it would have appeared with a large family living in it!

DSCF8953.JPG

 

DSCF8954.JPG

 

DSCF8955.JPG

 

DSCF8956.JPG

 

John,

Thank you.  I am sure you are right and things would have been reused.  A lot of the furniture we have dates back well into the early 20th century which belonged to various family members in the past, and my son has a chest of drawers that was my mum's and I am sure it was not new when she had it.

 

I like the welsh dresser, and in fact there will be one in the kitchen.  There will also be a sink, a butler sink I presume.  Also as it is a town I am assuming that they will have mains water and drainage.  My mum's village in Hertfordshire in the 1920s did not and they had to get their water from a stand pipe in the street.

[Penlan]

...... spare cash .......  I am not sure how much these workers in these cottages would have had spare.

Off Topic, but I am always amazed at how Victorian employers seemed to pitch the wages enough to basically keep workers alive (to work) but no more to enable them to improve their situations.

I'm thinking Miners - Coal, Tin, etc.,  Quarry workers and of course all those associated with Foundries, Steel works, etc.,

 

I'm enjoying this topic, good modelling.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Penlan

[ChrisN]

Off Topic, but I am always amazed at how Victorian employers seemed to pitch the wages enough to basically keep workers alive (to work) but no more to enable them to improve their situations.

I'm thinking Miners - Coal, Tin, etc.,  Quarry workers and of course all those associated with Foundries, Steel works, etc.,

 

I'm enjoying this topic, good modelling.

 

Penlan,

Thank you.  I am glad you are enjoying the topic, even though it jumps about a bit.  I have seen your modelling so have a compliment from you is really pleasing.  Thank you.

[Donw]

When my Grandad sister visted us around 1960 she wanted to do the washing up the novelty of having a tap in the house  and being able to tip the water away rather than carry the bowl outside. She livid in Liss Hampshire. The loo was a bucket job down the end of the garden.

 When we moved to Easthope about 1974 no one in the row had proper drainage  Our sink waste had a pipe into a small stone culvert that ran down to the stream. Water was from a private supply collected from under Wenlock edge. But had been piped to all the houses (by the estate ) Toilets were earth closets. Our neighbour could be seen every morning tucking his shirt back into his trousers as he walked back to the house. We put a septic tank in.

 

To go back we regularly visited Marions Gran who was looking after her elder sister still living in the family home. Most of the furniture etc. dated from victorian times. One thing that seemed quite common was a framed bit of embroidery something the girls were encouraged to do.

A lot of house would have had a washhouse with an iron bowl set in brickwork with a fire underneath..

 

Don

[ChrisN]

When my Grandad sister visted us around 1960 she wanted to do the washing up the novelty of having a tap in the house  and being able to tip the water away rather than carry the bowl outside. She livid in Liss Hampshire. The loo was a bucket job down the end of the garden.

 When we moved to Easthope about 1974 no one in the row had proper drainage  Our sink waste had a pipe into a small stone culvert that ran down to the stream. Water was from a private supply collected from under Wenlock edge. But had been piped to all the houses (by the estate ) Toilets were earth closets. Our neighbour could be seen every morning tucking his shirt back into his trousers as he walked back to the house. We put a septic tank in.

 

To go back we regularly visited Marions Gran who was looking after her elder sister still living in the family home. Most of the furniture etc. dated from victorian times. One thing that seemed quite common was a framed bit of embroidery something the girls were encouraged to do.

A lot of house would have had a washhouse with an iron bowl set in brickwork with a fire underneath..

 

Don

 

Don,

That is very interesting.  my in-laws had an automatic washing machine in 1958, while my mum was still using a hot tub and a wringer!  She boiled handkerchiefs in a zinc bucket on the cooker for years, and as far as I know still did up until she died, although I was never there to watch her then. 

 

A washhouse.  I would know where to put one in a terraced house, it would be in the extension out the back, but I am not sure where it would go in cottages like this one or smaller ones.  Would they have done it as my mum did on the stove or was there a separate house?  More research.  This may take some time.

[corneliuslundie]

Not sure what is going on as my last post has disappeared.

 

Like others I feel that the interiors in the colour photos above are a bit grand for an ironworker's cottage. 

 

A useful reference for exteriors, though it has only a couple of interior photos and the photos are all black and white, is "Welsh industrial workers housing 1775-1875" (National Museum of Wales, 1977).. Although the houses are pre 1875 the photos are more recent, of various dates. There are examples from south, mid and north Wales, including some textile workers' houses from the next street to us here in Newrown. Some of the houses still exist but a good number have been demolished. However, I am not sure that the houses in Traeth Mawr would necessarily be classed as industrial workers' housing, except perhaps those of the quarry workers.

 

Wash houses. When these houses were buoilt in the early 19th century there was no piped water and only a communal wash-house at the end of one of the gardens (it is now used as a shed). Water and sewers were added later, but in a rather convoluted way which cost us quite a bit to sort out when we bought the house. But essentially water and sewers came ton the backs of the houses.

 

Another issue is lighting. Gas came early to Newtown in the 1830s after the canal opened. In many places it was later, and electricity may only have arrived after the second world war in rural areas. So in 1895 lighting may well have been by oil.

 

Jonathan

[BG John]

There's also its companion "Welsh Country Workers Housing 1775-1875" that has floor plans and exteriors, but few interiors. They're mostly detached houses.

Edited April 23, 2015 by BG John

[corneliuslundie]

Currently available from Amazon for 1p plus 2.80 postage.

[BG John]

Mine was £2.99 from St Fagans, collected in person!

[ChrisN]

Not sure what is going on as my last post has disappeared.

 

Like others I feel that the interiors in the colour photos above are a bit grand for an ironworker's cottage. 

 

A useful reference for exteriors, though it has only a couple of interior photos and the photos are all black and white, is "Welsh industrial workers housing 1775-1875" (National Museum of Wales, 1977).. Although the houses are pre 1875 the photos are more recent, of various dates. There are examples from south, mid and north Wales, including some textile workers' houses from the next street to us here in Newrown. Some of the houses still exist but a good number have been demolished. However, I am not sure that the houses in Traeth Mawr would necessarily be classed as industrial workers' housing, except perhaps those of the quarry workers.

 

Wash houses. When these houses were buoilt in the early 19th century there was no piped water and only a communal wash-house at the end of one of the gardens (it is now used as a shed). Water and sewers were added later, but in a rather convoluted way which cost us quite a bit to sort out when we bought the house. But essentially water and sewers came ton the backs of the houses.

 

Another issue is lighting. Gas came early to Newtown in the 1830s after the canal opened. In many places it was later, and electricity may only have arrived after the second world war in rural areas. So in 1895 lighting may well have been by oil.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I feel this one will run and run.  This cottage may not go into Traeth Mawr, although it may do, and as a rural cottage I had assumed that the lighting would be candles, never thought of oil.  Sink yes, taps no.  Drain from sink, to outside and to a soak away, but from what Don said, probably tipped down the garden.  Earth closet obviously.  (Used one of those on holiday in France, temperatures of 90 degrees, wonderful smell!)

 

The other houses I had assumed as the good councillors had planned some new houses, plus hotels, not to be modelled, that they had sewers, even if they discharged into the sea.  I had also assumed gas lighting but of course you would need a gas works for that.  Where is the nearest gas works?  Not in Traeth Mawr.  I will have to investigate what other towns in the area did.

 

This is far more interesting that just having a layout with only track and a station building, although I can see what will happen is there will be lots of half built buildings with all the right bits and Thomas pulling Annie and Clarabelle around.