Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[ChrisN]

Re the cottage: it is/was within walking distance of Traeth Mawr. My wife and I photographed it in the 1970s when we were staying in Barmouth and walking in the hills to the north. Yes, that is the sea. It is very typical of the traditional long house farmhouse design of rural Wales. There is a nicely restored example at St Fagans, though from another part of Wales - there even used to be a cardboard cutout kit of it.

 

Parly I think by the 1890s merely meant tickets sold at the price set by the Act for trains that complied with the act. Every line had to run some trains stopping at all stations and travelling at a certain minimum average speed and charge a third class fare not more than the maximum set by the Act. When I lived in Hatfield one of the morning trains was still referred to informally by the staff as the "Parly" even though it was an electric train. I would be very surprised if the Cambrian or the GWR in this area would be required to run workmen's trains anyway.

 

I would be very surprised if all Cambrian tickets were the same colour. Most lines had different colours for each class, different colours for single and return and all sorts of extras for dogs, forces on duty, bicycles, sailors rejoining their ships and anything else you can think of as well as excursions and reduced fare offers. I am sure one of the Cambrian books has some photos of tickets, but I can't remember whether it says what colours they are.

 

And I assume that there would have had to be ticket interavailability between stations served by both companies (thouigh that is a big supposition, knowing the GWR!)

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  More information which I am not sure I would have found easily elsewhere.  Looking at the timetable at least for the Coast Line most were all station stoppers but from reputation they may have had trouble keeping the minimum average speed.    Does this mean that if the ticket was sold to go on a train that did not stop at all stations they could charge a higher fare?

 

I shall keep my brown tickets then.  I was wondering whether it was a pigment fading problem.  There are tickets that come up on eBay quite regularly on a saved search that I have.  I am not interested in buying the tickets but I shall look at them for the colours.

[corneliuslundie]

 

Is this what byou had in mind? This house is in our road in Newtown.

 

Jonathan

[corneliuslundie]

'Political pressure caused the Board of Trade to investigate, and Sir Robert Peel's Conservative government enacted the Railway Regulation Act, which took effect on 1 November 1844. It compelled "the provision of at least one train a day each way at a speed of not less than 12 miles an hour including stops, which were to be made at all stations, and of carriages protected from the weather and provided with seats; for all which luxuries not more than a penny a mile might be charged".'

 

From Wikipedia

 

J

[ChrisN]

Jonathan,

Was this after the 'passengers frozen to death' scandal?  As ever I know things but my filing system in my brain does not have them joined up.

[corneliuslundie]

I don't know about any frozen passengers!

 

But on tickets: Ordinary singles were white for first class, red for second and green for third. Returns had the return (left) half differently coloured: yellow for first, blue for second and buff for third, the outward half was the same colour as the singles. Excursion and other cheap tickets were further distinguished. Market returns had an extra brown vertical band in the centre, otherwise they were as a normal third return. Excursion tickets were green for third class with three horizontal bars plus a diagonal stripe on the return half, generally in blue or orange with the diagonal a deeper shade than the bars. First class excursions were white with a yellow horizontal band and return half diagonal. There were even jazzier types: a season day excursion was white with green vertical band on the outward half and two purple vertical bars on the return half. In contrast some half day and child's excursions were plain blue. Dog tickets were yellow: bicycle orange. (Christen & Miller volume 2 page 90) (no second class in 1895 if I remember correctly)

 

There are a few tickets illustrated in Cambrian Railways Album but no colours are mentioned. However, one has three horizontal stripes. I like the abbreviation of Whitchurch on the Oswestry to Buxton Tourist return: wchrch.

 

Can we now expect your ticket collectors to be holding some of these more exotic tickets?????

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

I don't know about any frozen passengers!

 

But on tickets: Ordinary singles were white for first class, red for second and green for third. Returns had the return (left) half differently coloured: yellow for first, blue for second and buff for third, the outward half was the same colour as the singles. Excursion and other cheap tickets were further distinguished. Market returns had an extra brown vertical band in the centre, otherwise they were as a normal third return. Excursion tickets were green for third class with three horizontal bars plus a diagonal stripe on the return half, generally in blue or orange with the diagonal a deeper shade than the bars. First class excursions were white with a yellow horizontal band and return half diagonal. There were even jazzier types: a season day excursion was white with green vertical band on the outward half and two purple vertical bars on the return half. In contrast some half day and child's excursions were plain blue. Dog tickets were yellow: bicycle orange. (Christen & Miller volume 2 page 90) (no second class in 1895 if I remember correctly)

 

There are a few tickets illustrated in Cambrian Railways Album but no colours are mentioned. However, one has three horizontal stripes. I like the abbreviation of Whitchurch on the Oswestry to Buxton Tourist return: wchrch.

 

Can we now expect your ticket collectors to be holding some of these more exotic tickets?????

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan thank you again,

I thought it would be Christiansen and Miller but had not got as far as looking.  I must have read it but not retained the information.  I will have to repaint the tickets as they are second class and as you rightly said, no second class in 1895, except I think for through passengers, although how that worked I am not quite sure unless they were on the Tri-composites.  (To answer my own question I know it did not work which was why they reintroduced second class.)

 

Of course I have painted my tickets to be second class ones so I will have to repaint them.  Very useful for when I eventually do the ticket office I can have piles of tickets in different colours, all of which would have been pre-printed.  No I am not going to try and do the names on the tickets and I doubt if I will have tickets with stripes on them in the collectors hand. 

 

Now I know they clipped them but when you had finished did they tear them in half and give you the second bit back if it was a return, or am I thinking of something else like the cinema?

 

Frozen Passengers.  In the early days of the GWR third class accommodation was open trucks, and one freezing cold night a train left somewhere quite west, Bristol or Wales, and took all night.  The result of which was some of the passengers had frozen to death.

[corneliuslundie]

Yes, I remember ticket collectors taking the outward half and giving back the return half. And of course on the well run preserved railways they still do.

 

I have to admit that on Nantcwmddu I have no intention of putting interiors into the station building other than one room which has big windows, as it is just not possible to see inside from most viewling angles. And on Sarn there is no station building, just a lock-up shed. I may have to do more with one of the houses on Sarn as viewers will have a straight on view of the front.

 

I hadn't heard about the GWR train but having seen drawings of the carriages (trucks) I am not surprised.

 

Glad to be of help. The only trouble is that it distracts me from my own modelling - or perhaps I am using it as an excuse not to do any.

 

Jonathan

[Donw]

In the early days the Great Western were more interested in a better class of traveller. Freezing the poor devils was a bit much though!

 

What an appalling miss match of windows on those houses the middle ground floor one half and half looks like one of the 'shared windows' I saw in shropshire. One of my pet hates is where they replace an old window with one of a different shape. I can  agree with changing the glazing style or the way of opening but changing the window shape usually looks plain wrong.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Yes, I remember ticket collectors taking the outward half and giving back the return half. And of course on the well run preserved railways they still do.

 

I have to admit that on Nantcwmddu I have no intention of putting interiors into the station building other than one room which has big windows, as it is just not possible to see inside from most viewling angles. And on Sarn there is no station building, just a lock-up shed. I may have to do more with one of the houses on Sarn as viewers will have a straight on view of the front.

 

I hadn't heard about the GWR train but having seen drawings of the carriages (trucks) I am not surprised.

 

Glad to be of help. The only trouble is that it distracts me from my own modelling - or perhaps I am using it as an excuse not to do any.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Sorry to distract you from your modelling.  I have to admit that I am very strict with myself when it comes to RMWeb.  I will have it open during the day and look at tings or answer posts in between doing other things or when I sit down for a tea break.  I usually model in an evening and then I have my laptop next to my work area and will look at posts in between concentration breaks.

 

I will try and not distract you anymore but thank you again for your input.

[corneliuslundie]

Too late. This photo may be useful for the interior of your ticket office:

 

http://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/photos/ss51.jpg

 

I'm waiting for glue to dry. But I need to do some Welsh homework tonight.

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

Too late. This photo may be useful for the interior of your ticket office:

 

http://www.embsayboltonabbeyrailway.org.uk/photos/ss51.jpg

 

I'm waiting for glue to dry. But I need to do some Welsh homework tonight.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you again.  That picture is amazing, I do love dark wood like that.

 

Welsh homework, as in the language?  I have never been any good at languages so hat off to you.

[steveNCB7754]

I interrupt the modelling with something fascinating.  Well I find it so.  I saw this on eBay.  It is a Cambrian Railways ticket from Barmouth to Barmouth Junction in 1896 and it costs 2d.  That is not what is interesting.  It is 3rd class and in brackets it says Parly, which I assume means that it is a workman's ticket for use in parliamentary stock.  This means I assume that Parliamentary stock is still in use ...

 

Hi,

 

Although not my specific interest, I have been following this thread and hope you do not mind if I make an observation regarding these 'Parly' tickets.  Did companies ditch stocks of tickets, if an item of information on it became out of date?  Would it not have been more likely that, in some circumstances, they would have carried on using them until the stocks ran out?  That being the case, it would mean that you could not take the fact that it had 'Parly' printed on it at the date mentioned, to prove (one way or the other) that such coaches were still in use when the ticket was issued.

 

Others may know more (as they say), but it was just a thought.

 

Steve N

Edited March 21, 2015 by steveNCB7754

[ChrisN]

Hi,

 

Although not my specific interest, I have been following this thread and hope you do not mind if I make an observation regaring these 'Parly' tickets.  Did companies ditch stocks of tickets, if an item of information on it became out of date?  Would it not have been more likely that, in some circumstances, they would have carried on using them until the stocks ran out?  That being the case, it would mean that you could not take the fact that it had 'Parly' printed on it at the date mentioned, to prove (one way or the other) that such coaches were still in use when the ticket was issued.

 

Others may know more (as they say), but it was just a thought.

 

Steve N

 

Steve,

Thank you and I hope you enjoy the thread.  I would think that what would decide when old tickets were stopped being used was when the fares were put up as it was printed on them.  From the research I think parliamentary stock was still around but from the discussion probably not on specific trains for this ticket to be used on.

[ChrisN]

I said the other day that I had been bodging,  Bodger is a High Wycombe/Buckinghamshire term for a furniture maker, particularly chairs.  They used to make very good chairs in High Wycombe.  Anyway, here are mine.

 

Cottage Chairs.

 

No of course I did not make those especially as they were made in 1820.  (I am not that old!   )  They are however the ones on which I based those that I did make.

 

 

I have made five.  Basically I had a piece of 20 thou plasticard that was wide enough for five seats to be drawn out side by side so as not to waste any except at either end. .I cut a notch in each corner to fit the leg to.  The legs are 0.75mm square Plastistrut.  As you can see from the first chair I have used acr_mr's technique of gluing first and cutting afterwards.  Having let it dry and cut the first leg to length, I fitted another, and let it dry.  I then put a spacer in which is 0.5mm square Plastistrut.  I glued one end, then cut it to length and glued the other.  Then the back leg.  Glued, left to dry, the leg cut to length and the back cut longer than needed, to be sorted later.

 

I tried to use Plastic Weld for this but it did not hold it firmly enough, perhaps I was doing something wrong.  In the end I use tiny dobs of Humbrol Poly Cement.  It probably shows.

 

 

These are the next five stages of legs and struts.  The final one on the right has the cross bar between the two back supports.  This is the same as the leg struts. 

 

 

The next was the struct across the top.  This came from my multipack so I have no idea its size except that I think it is 0.75mm wide and very thin.  The vertical struts were also from my multipack and were possibly not even o.5mm wide.  Centre one first, then the other two.  They were finished off and then tidied up.  You can see they have attracted hairs which were removed.  They were then painted with Humbrol 10, brown, which is gloss.  I would prefer not to use gloss but this I think is still Humbrol's darkest brown.  So it needed some matt varnish.

 

I opened the varnish and it looked horrible.  Now matt varnish may look like it did but as the other job I wanted to do was varnish my figures I thought I would have a try first with something else.  Here is a door I made earlier.

 

 

And to see what effect it had on figures, here's a maid,

 

 

Both have nasty white marks.  I am not sure how old the varnish is so I will buy some one Tuesday and try it on the other side of the door.  I may spray the figures but the last figure I sprayed you could see the spray marks.  Obviously doing something wrong.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Stubby47]

Not sure that the door looks wrong with those whiter patches, but perhaps they are too much on the maid - but that depends on what she has been doing...

[ChrisN]

Not sure that the door looks wrong with those whiter patches, but perhaps they are too much on the maid - but that depends on what she has been doing...

 

Stu,

The white patches are 'globs' of varnish I think.  It may have been the way I applied it but I have not had that sort of problem before.

[Donw]

Just a thought Chris what sort of temperature had the varnish been stored in? BTW it isn't the water based stuff is it. I prefer the proper stuff with warnings about the vapours.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Just a thought Chris what sort of temperature had the varnish been stored in? BTW it isn't the water based stuff is it. I prefer the proper stuff with warnings about the vapours.

 

Don

 

Don,

It is Humbrol Matt oil based Varnish.  It has been stored at room temperature.

[corneliuslundie]

I have just had to ditch a tin of this as I was getting similar problems. I bought a new tin but haven't tried it yet.

[Donw]

Don,

It is Humbrol Matt oil based Varnish.  It has been stored at room temperature.

 

I may stick to Ronseal then. Seriously I have no idea why it should do that.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Again, interrupting my bodging to go back to track plans, hopefully I can do something this week or next week or soon after, well at least get some cork down so I need to finalise the track plan.

 

Originally it was this.

 

 

This is without buildings and I have changed every square to one inch.

 

I have fiddled and come up with this as I need more siding space.

 

 

I have pulled the bay platform line out so it is actually at the back of the platform where it should be, and put in a siding opposite.  This will be the coal siding with the staithes and coal office etc.  The far end of the other one will be the exchange siding.

 

One problem I noticed tonight is that the curved point at the end will sit over a leg.  How did I miss that?  I really want to keep that as this formation of track is so prototypical of the Cambrian, well it would be if it was in a straight line, but you know what I mean.

 

The bay will only be used for parking through coaches and is about 23" long so about long for 3 six wheelers or maybe three 40ft bogie coaches.  The station end of the exchange sidings will be used for any other coach, or maybe even this end of the coal siding.  I know the owner company would not be very pleased but the Cambrian and GWR never really got on.........

 

Thoughts?

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Stubby47]

If you are using curved points for the fiddle yards, why not put them at 3'o'clock and 9 ' o'clock to gain more length in the sidings ? You could even split the longer sidings into two sections.

[ChrisN]

If you are using curved points for the fiddle yards, why not put them at 3'o'clock and 9 ' o'clock to gain more length in the sidings ? You could even split the longer sidings into two sections.

 

 

Stu,

I thought your suggestion was such a good idea I wondered why I had not thought of it, then I realised my scenic bit goes all the way back to where the curved points start.  I would also have problems with baseboard legs.  I am thinking as I type because it is such a good idea but I am not sure it would work with the scenic section.  I will go away and try it though and order more rack if necessary. 

 

I am hoping to split the sidings anyway.  The longest train will be 3 30ft six wheelers and two 40ft bogies which gives a scale length of 27" plus couplings and an engine, which is, er yes, too long.  The point motors for the ones near the legs, or rather the point rodding would have to be on the surface and they would need to be disguised in some way but that is not impossible.

 

I will have a look at it, thanks.

[Stubby47]

If you only moved one set of points you'd still gain some length at the expense of a scenic area, or disguise the split as a junction ( signalled as such) as it passes under a road bridge or between some trees.

[ChrisN]

I rushed off a plan before I went out tonight which is below.

 

 

I need to fit this in with the scenic plan which is as follows

 

 

I did this before I read Stu's post but it shows the track will work.  I am not keen on a junction as there would not be one unless I can think of a harbour branch as at Aberdovey.  I also need to visibly be able to shut the siding on the right.  I will think about this but any thoughts would be welcome.  (A tardis would be helpful as I really need nearly 20ft to do it justice really.