Traeth Mawr -Painting Season, (mostly)

[Quarryscapes]

Don,

Thank you for that.  The more working timetable information the better.  I will go back to your thread and have a read.  Looking at the Archive the article on the coaches is in Vol 1, nos 1&2.  No 1 is sold out and No2 only has a few copies.  I was going to order it and it was the next thing I intended to do about two weeks ago, when I get a moment and remember, the two do not always coincide, I will do it, along with ordering the GWR journals, or was that on another thread?

 

I have downloaded the WRRC paint suggestions and it says Humbrol 64.  On the instructions it said some earlier vehicles were dark grey so I have painted two dark and the third light grey.  I had assumed that the lower numbers would be earlier and so would have the darker colour until I noticed that the picture I was working from was 927, quite an early number but was in light grey.  It did have the Cam Rys on it so it may have been repainted at the time.  Maybe when I photograph them the numbers will not be visible.

 

Numbers don't mean much on the Cambrian, new vehicles were allocated the next lowest number which could easily be a recent withdrawal. 927 Was built at Oswestry in 1899 IIRC. Big batches of wagons tended to get block numbers at the end of the series, but with withdrawals again this could get polluted by allsorts. This is all the running number info I have currently accrued:

 

Cambrian Freight STock Numbers

 

1. 6T Van

3. 6T Van

5. 6T Van

8. Gas tank

9. 6T Van

10. Gas Holder (ex Metropolitan Railway)

14. Break Down Crane, 5 Ton. 

15. Crane, ex MR. (GW 466)

17. Large Cattle Wagon

33. Large Cattle Wagon (1900 Oswestry)

94. Stores Van

139. Gunpowder Van (1905 Oswestry)

187. 6T Van

252. Gunpowder Van (1905 Oswestry)

291. 2 Plank Dropside (1902 OSwestry)

304. 4 Plank Open (1900 Oswestry)

356. Lime Wagon (Dumb Buffers 1864, Midland). Replaced 1904. 

471. Furniture Truck.

570. Single bolster

623. 6T Van

645. 6T Van

692. 6T Van

735. 6T Van

901. 6T Van

927. 2 Plank Dropside (Oswestry 1899)

936. ROD Brake Van

951. 6T Van (1904 Oswestry)

97x 2 Plank Dropside

981. 6T Van

1014. 4 Plank Open (Pickering, Sheet Rail)

1064.6T Van

1217. Flat Bolster

1388 - 1395. 6T Vans

1425. Cattle Truck (Early Small)

1586. Cattle Truck, vac piped.

1648. Cattle Truck (unbraked??)

1726. 6T Van (Oswestry 1905)

1730-1744. 6T Vans

1750-1799. 2 Plank fixed side. (Diag 44)

1870. 6T Van

1883-1899. 6T Vans

2062. 2 Plank Dropside

2150. Cattle Truck. Vac Piped. (Metropolitan, July 1897). Destroyed in Accident @ Caersws 1907.

2230. Cattle Truck. vac fitted.

2241. 1 Plank Bolster

2285. Twin Bolster.

2300-2349. 4 Plank, Pickering 1902. 

2360. 2 plank dropside

2384. 2 Plank dropside

2399. 2 Plank Dropside

2400-2409. 8 plank coal.

2416. 15T 8Plank Coal (Pickering 1903)

2450. 15T 8Plank Coal (Oswestry 1904)

2470-2489. 6T Vans

2510. Boiler Wagon

 

Brake Vans

 

1. Single End

2. Single End (13T)

9. Double End Steel Frame (15 Ton, Oswestry 1912)

10. Single End (13T)

11. Double End Steel frame.(15 TON, oswestry 1912)

32. Wood O/S Frame Single End

37. Wood O/S Frame Single End

 

NPCS:

 

111. Meat Van (?)

114. Milk Van

116. Parcels Van (6whl)

145. Horse Box

190. Hounds Van

220. Horse Box

225. Horse Box.

232. Mutton Van

245. Horse Box.

290. CCT (oswestry 1898)

292. Mutton Van. 6whl. (Oswestry 1902)

293. TPO Bogie. (1902 Oswestry

294. Horse Box (Oswestry 1901)

298. Horse Box.

300. Horse Box

316-318. Horse Box (OSwestry)

322. Poultry / Milk Van (1907, Oswestry)

 

 

The Cambrian kits aren't totally accurate either, the buffers are far too substantial and the axleboxes are just wrong. To sort this out I produce my own 3D printed versions and use etched W irons from my own etches. My wagons I started off painting in Revell 76, which I find too blue. But with weathering it somehow ended up a lot more pink and darker! 

 

I'm currently mixing my own grey from Vallejo grey and panzer grey primers. The Cambrian kits I'm leaving in unpainted plastic:

 

 

On the right is my Cambrian 2 plank with my own buffers, brake gear and transfers from dragon models. Extreme left is my own Lime wagon painted the same. Centre are my current works in progress: The 4 planks are bare plastic, the lime wagon on top is painted in Vallejo acrylics to match (not a bad colour match either!)

 

Need to pluck up courage to do the strapping and find some transfers...

[ChrisN]

Alan,

Thank you.  I have not quoted your post as it is quite long.  The information is very useful, can I ask where you got it from please? 

 

As my layout is set in 1895 there are some numbers that I cannot use.  I find t interesting that No10 is a gas tank holder which cannot be before 1894 so must have replaced something.

 

I have painted two dark grey and the third Humbrol 64.  Hopefully they will look alright once they have had a bit of weathering, although I need a few more. 

 

Have you produced the underframe of your lime wagon?  I have not seen the 2 planker in your 3D shop, I don't think.

 

It will all help to get the right look when it finally materialises although apart from photos on here it will only be seen by me and others who probably have never heard of the Cambrian.

[Quarryscapes]

Alan,

Thank you.  I have not quoted your post as it is quite long.  The information is very useful, can I ask where you got it from please? 

 

As my layout is set in 1895 there are some numbers that I cannot use.  I find t interesting that No10 is a gas tank holder which cannot be before 1894 so must have replaced something.

 

I have painted two dark grey and the third Humbrol 64.  Hopefully they will look alright once they have had a bit of weathering, although I need a few more. 

 

Have you produced the underframe of your lime wagon?  I have not seen the 2 planker in your 3D shop, I don't think.

 

It will all help to get the right look when it finally materialises although apart from photos on here it will only be seen by me and others who probably have never heard of the Cambrian.

 

It's been assembled from every single photo I have, references in books, drawings, Board of Trade accident reports and any source I can find that mentions wagon numbers. If I could get my hand on the GWR absorbed wagon register I'd have a much better idea. 

 

Actually I'm sure the NRM and WRRC have more material that would shed light on Cambrian vehicles too.

 

I'd imagine all the numbers up to 1000 have been carried by more than one wagon at least! Trouble is it's hard to positively identify a Cambrian wagon before the 1899 livery came in unless it's a photo of JUST that wagon or a really, really high quality print.

 

I've a handful of underframes being etched at present, Lime wagon and others, along with some other useful bits like etched number and Oswestry works plates.

 

I have a 2mm scale 2 plank in my shop, no sense in not using the Cambrian kit really for 4mm. With the underframes I have on order and a couple more yet to be drawn the humble 2 plank kit can be adapted to provide a whole host of Cambrian wagons including into GWR service. 

 

The buffers and axleboxes are available from Shapeways but without springs. My latest update to the lime wagon includes springs with the axleboxes, now I've had a chance to handle the prototypes I'll be rolling that out across to the standard grease axleboxes, and in time will be adding Oil axleboxes. Also keep an eye out for Ballast wagon and 3 plank bodies...

Edited December 22, 2014 by Quarryscapes

[ChrisN]

It's been assembled from every single photo I have, references in books, drawings, Board of Trade accident reports and any source I can find that mentions wagon numbers. If I could get my hand on the GWR absorbed wagon register I'd have a much better idea. 

 

Actually I'm sure the NRM and WRRC have more material that would shed light on Cambrian vehicles too.

 

I'd imagine all the numbers up to 1000 have been carried by more than one wagon at least! Trouble is it's hard to positively identify a Cambrian wagon before the 1899 livery came in unless it's a photo of JUST that wagon or a really, really high quality print.

 

I've a handful of underframes being etched at present, Lime wagon and others, along with some other useful bits like etched number and Oswestry works plates.

 

I have a 2mm scale 2 plank in my shop, no sense in not using the Cambrian kit really for 4mm. With the underframes I have on order and a couple more yet to be drawn the humble 2 plank kit can be adapted to provide a whole host of Cambrian wagons including into GWR service. 

 

The buffers and axleboxes are available from Shapeways but without springs. My latest update to the lime wagon includes springs with the axleboxes, now I've had a chance to handle the prototypes I'll be rolling that out across to the standard grease axleboxes, and in time will be adding Oil axleboxes. Also keep an eye out for Ballast wagon and 3 plank bodies...

 

Alan,

Thank you, and thank you again for the information on the wagons.  I thought that is probably where you got them from and so has saved me hours of work.

 

I suppose the good news is that as long as a number is not known to have been carried by a particular waggon then there can be no complaints if I use it.

 

I will look out for the underframes and kits but as you see from my thread nothing moves very fast but I may just add to my stock of kits.

[ChrisN]

Edited December 23, 2014 by ChrisN

[emt_911]

Wishing you a

 

Merry Christmas and productive modelling 2015

 

Looking forward to more stunning modelling

[Donw]

Merry Christmas Chris. I haven't forgotten about the Working time for the coast lines.

Don

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris, just had a pleasant walk through your thread, I seem to have missed a lot of your posts, hopefully sorted now.

 

The Stadden figures are looking really good, as we've discussed elsewhere they are such a bonus for us pre-grouping modellers!

 

You asked about the forthcoming Hornby clerestories. As far as I can see they are the "usual" ones re-issued. In case you didn't know, the panels are printed not moulded. However, on this early livery that solution isn't too bad and works reasonably OK when seen directly side-on (on the versions with the later simplified choc and cream the panels are picked out with a gold line only and that is far less convincing).

 

As for the diagrams of the long Hornby clerestories, they are not quite scale models, but when we put together the listings on gwr.org.uk there seemed to be consensus that the brake third could resemble a D29 or D25 (with incorrect guard doors), while the all third could be a (formerly compo 2nd and 3rd) C15. Sort of!

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4rtrcoaches.html

Edited December 29, 2014 by Mikkel

[JCL]

Hi Chris,

 

You've just brightened my day as I've been able to sit down and wander through your thread. I've really enjoyed reading about your project. Happy new year to you.

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris, just had a pleasant walk through your thread, I seem to have missed a lot of your posts, hopefully sorted now.

 

The Stadden figures are looking really good, as we've discussed elsewhere they are such a bonus for us pre-grouping modellers!

 

You asked about the forthcoming Hornby clerestories. As far as I can see they are the "usual" ones re-issued. In case you didn't know, the panels are printed not moulded. However, on this early livery that solution isn't too bad and works reasonably OK when seen directly side-on (on the versions with the later simplified choc and cream the panels are picked out with a gold line only and that is far less convincing).

 

As for the diagrams of the long Hornby clerestories, they are not quite scale models, but when we put together the listings on gwr.org.uk there seemed to be consensus that the brake third could resemble a D29 or D25 (with incorrect guard doors), while the all third could be a (formerly compo 2nd and 3rd) C15. Sort of!

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4rtrcoaches.html

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  Praise for my figures from you is really encouraging.  The figures I have changed, not the Stadden ones yet although I must have at least one with proper 1895 sleeves, I am sure I did from seeing what you have done.

 

I did not really understand that these were a re-issue of their previous coaches.  I will go back and have a look at those diagrams.  It may well be that I need some sort of tri-composite as I will be using GWR coaches as through coaches.  I suppose what I need to do is look at some GWR histories as to what they used.

 

I am glad you have enjoyed my thread.  I am not sure how much modelling time I will have in the next few months but I can keep plodding on with the small stuff.

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris,

 

You've just brightened my day as I've been able to sit down and wander through your thread. I've really enjoyed reading about your project. Happy new year to you.

 

Jason,

I am pleased that you have enjoyed my thread.  It feels to me that I have jumped around quite a bit and it is not easy to follow.  As I have said to Mikkel I am not sure how much time I will get in the next few months but I will keep plugging away.

 

I am looking forward to seeing your new layout develop.  Have a good New Year hope all goes well in your new house and all that you intend to do.

[JCL]

Oh, I jump around all over the place. I'm surprised that people are keeping up - I know I lose track from time to time. If I keep going back in time I may easily be on the market for some of those Victorian.Edwardian figures at some point.

[Mikkel]

I am not sure how much modelling time I will have in the next few months but I can keep plodding on with the small stuff.

 

I hope you'll find the time Chris, but I know it can be difficult sometimes. Still, even a single figure painted can be a satisfying project in itself, I find. The great thing about modelling is that everything can be broken down into individual mini-projects. 

[ChrisN]

Christmas has come and gone with very little modelling done.  However I was cutting plastic yesterday.  I did get some Cambrian related Christmas presents and I hope to put a photo or two up later.

 

I have however pre-ordered the A. C. Stadden figures which includes railway staff.  Now this brings me to the point of this post.  What was the colour of the Cambrian railway uniform?

 

I have seen a couple of tinted photographs of the Cambrian with staff on them.  One is 'Arrial at Talderigg'.which was taken on the Wirral Railway, so is probably no good, and on the other the uniform colour is indistinct, but looks dark grey/green. 

 

I would not actually trust colour tints anyway.  My mum had a picture of herself tinted and the bush behind her in the tint was covered in pink roses, which was really amazing as they were raspberry canes!

 

In the books I have read it has mentioned uniforms but not the colour.  So does anyone know?

[corneliuslundie]

Not much in Great Western Way, though if you have a class 2 stationmaster he "wore no distinctive uniform other than a cap with a narrow gold band, a dark jacket and dark trousers" though class 1 and 3 stationmasters had more complete uniforms. But the only colour that is mentioned in five paragrapha on staff and uniforms is white shirts for permanent way staff. Definitely a straw boater though for the head ganger!

[ChrisN]

Not much in Great Western Way, though if you have a class 2 stationmaster he "wore no distinctive uniform other than a cap with a narrow gold band, a dark jacket and dark trousers" though class 1 and 3 stationmasters had more complete uniforms. But the only colour that is mentioned in five paragrapha on staff and uniforms is white shirts for permanent way staff. Definitely a straw boater though for the head ganger!

 

Thank you, this is quite helpful.  I had assumed that it would be dark and I will probably use a dark grey, or perhaps grey/green.

 

I assume that class 1 stationmasters are for big stations like Aberystwyth and class three for small through stations.  This would mean Traeth Mawr would probably have a class 2, so that is sorted.

 

Gangers:  I think I have seen photos of groups of gangers who won a prize for their bit of line so it would be possible, I will think about it.

[RSLR]

I tried to do a victorian figure although 1:1 scale.



I always thought I remember reading somewhere that the first original GWR uniforms were dark green.

[ChrisN]

Reece,

I assume you have a gold watch at the end of that chain. 

 

I think GWR uniforms were green but the Cambrian had trouble finding enough money to run the railway so they may not have supplied uniforms, although apparently they gave extra pay in 1908 to staff who looked after their uniform.

[RSLR]

Reece,

I assume you have a gold watch at the end of that chain. 

 

I think GWR uniforms were green but the Cambrian had trouble finding enough money to run the railway so they may not have supplied uniforms, although apparently they gave extra pay in 1908 to staff who looked after their uniform.

I quite like my mechanical pocket watches, but it would be nice if they worked though...

 

Possibly a tricky question, I'm not sure but the uniforms might have been mass produced at least I know later ones were. With the GWR it's seems likely they contracted a company to make uniforms to order for them. I think the same company also produced sheeting for goods wagons as well, uniforms were quite cheap to produce - in the days when some materials wasn't as expensive.

Station personnel and on train staff would most likely have been the first employees to be issued uniforms since they have frequent contact with passengers. Then possibly much later drivers/firemen and other railway staff.

 

Track gangs you can easily confirm they wasn't issued with anything but tools.

 

I would have thought uniforms definitely wouldn't have been as common with other much smaller pre-grouping railway companies.

[ChrisN]

I thought I would post some pictures.  No not of the plastic I have been cutting but some things I had at Christmas.

 

 

This is a Shapeways kit of a Cambrian 2-4-0, a Seaham Tank if my memory serves me correctly.  As you can see it is in translucent plastic and it is SMOOTH.  Shapeways must have very expensive printers as the quality is as good as any moulded kit.  It gives me the basics but I will not glue it together, it is just push fitted at the moment, until I have sorted the chassis and seen how it will fit with the gearing and motor.

 

The ladies watching are from Model Railway Developments and each has a twin.  They will be used inside carriages.  I think they are fairly reasonable but are not of the quality of A C Stadden and so will be used accordingly.

 

I also got this at the same time.

 

 

This is the chassis kit for the above?  It was originally meant for the Gem kit which is the GWR version of the same loco.

 

Now this is going to be fun as I have limited experience in brass and none in soldering kits.  I may well buy something else to practise on.  However, I had a dark thought, perhaps I could glue it, a two part glue or superglue?  Comments please.

 

Also, is there an R-T-R chassis that would go under it.  Obviously not the Hornby 14xx but perhaps one of the Fleischman or Arnold 2-4-0s.  Again comments welcome.  I am willing to try but considering how slow things go anyway a method that does not involve weeks of learning a new technique would be helpful.

 

Finally, with no picture, I got the Middleton Press, Barmouth to Pwllheli.  Most of it I knew would be to late for my period but I thought it would be useful.  The first picture is of a loco and station staff at Barmouth.  In the background is a footbridge.  I thought I had extensively searched for a pre 1895 footbridge on the Cambrian Coast and had not found one so I thought I was going to be spared making one.  This picture is obviously pre 1890 as not only is it an older loco but the ballast covers the sleepers.  It just goes to show that no reference book is wasted.  It also has some pictures which I think I have already seen of Barmouth Station buildings which just confirms how boring the Coast Line architecture was.

 

More modelling soon. If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited January 15, 2015 by ChrisN

[Jaz]

Looks interesting...shall look forward to its progress, as time allows. 

[ChrisN]

Still considering how I am going to make the chassis or if there is a small R-T-R one that would fit.

 

Things have been progressing but slowly.  Today was supposed to be the day I fitted dowels to the baseboards but other things got in the way.  I did however have a look at the 'railway room' to see if I could actually put it up in there.  Umm, well, the answer is possibly if I move things around.  When I told my wife this she said, "But I thought you were going to put it up downstairs which is why you can take it apart."  I had only intended to do that when the railway room was the spare bedroom with people in it.  We shall see.

 

I have as I said been cutting plastic.  I have gone back to Sportsman's Cottage.  This may not even appear on Traeth Mawr but is probably the only building I can progress until I have the track down.  I have been making chimneys.

 

 

Here are the two made and leaning up against one end wall.  You will notice that I have added sides and a bottom to the top ones.  This is so that they will have the appearance of not just being holes in the wall.  I have made one long chimney as the top floor will slide in and out.  (My buildings have to have the ability to be firing platforms so you need to get into them to add troops.)  As I think about t now it may have been a bad idea but we shall see.

 

 

This is the chimney from the other end facing to show the fireplaces and the back of the other showing I have painted it black.  I had only intended to paint behind the fireplaces but I noticed that in a bright light where I had painted showed up so I painted the whole lot.

 

The chimneys have been made as you see from plasticard glued and held square in York Models magnetic grips.  Last time I did this I attached them to the wall as I did it but I could not do it that way this time.  Getting them square is important.  Jules in Mayeshill used square section with a flat piece on the front which worked quite well but that is too easy for me.

 

 

Finally the chimney in its right place.  It is not glued in yet and I am in the process of painting them but more of that another time.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking

[Jaz]

I like the way you have recessed the windows. The extra effort pays off.

 

Clearly this will be a detailing project, as you inside is all nicely finished and painted. mine tend to look very haphazard inside.

[uax6]

With ref to your chassis. It should be fairly easy to get it soldered together, the key being having a big iron (I have a 25W weller with chisel tip which works well on most kits). You will need some sort of jig to keep things square, the best way is to square it via the axle holes, as without square axles it won't run. Now I'm not the one to say how to do it, as I've never soldered a chassis together (Well not ones for locos anyway!), but a simple way would be to get some long bolts that just fit through the axle holes, and plenty of nuts for the same. Run a nut right down to the head of the bolt, insert bolt in axle hole and then run another nut tight against the inside of the frame. Repeat with other holes.

Run another nut onto each bolt and set at the approx frame gap required, then drop the other frame on, and then another nut on the outside. Adjust gap to the correct distance and tighten the last nut up. The frames should now be square and rigidly held. You can now put the spacers in and with a big iron solder them up.

 

If you have a rayburn or something similar the hotplate can be very useful for helping to keep heat in the metal to allow the iron a better chance if it is a tad on the small size......

 

Andy G

[ChrisN]

I like the way you have recessed the windows. The extra effort pays off.

 

Clearly this will be a detailing project, as you inside is all nicely finished and painted. mine tend to look very haphazard inside.

 

Jaz,

Thank you.  The windows are from York Modelling and are quite thick.  I will do a post including the windows as I do the interior.  I have just looked at the walls I cut out about 2 years ago and they are too short!  I am not sure how I did that and will probably have to cut them out again, although the stairs I have made are the right size.  

 

I have also realised that I cannot have a two storey chimney as there is not an all over ceiling.  This is the trouble of taking so long to make something.