P.C.M Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Hi all, Thought I would start a thread on the detail differences among the class 40s. Hopefully to act as a guide for modellers improving the new class Bachmann class 40. I didn't see many class 40s back in the day so the ones I did see I remember quite well. So I am no expert so I guess it's over to you guys. Any pics showing the detail differences would be great. I will be doing 40135 as 97406 so any pics showing detail of whats left between the bogies would be nice. Something I did notice the other day while looking a pictures was that some locos don't have the sandboxes on the inner side of the bogie. Cheers Peter. Edited February 6, 2014 by P.C.M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I found this book to be quite useful.... http://www.amazon.com/Class-Diesels-Depth-David-Clarke/dp/0711031665 Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 I found this book to be quite useful.... http://www.amazon.com/Class-Diesels-Depth-David-Clarke/dp/0711031665 Best, Pete. Thanks Pete, Not seen that book might have to see about getting that. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 40012. has extra brackets half way up the nose doors, they are right next to the ones fitted in the normal position. Also small round disc bottom right of nose door, I think this was fitted due to the loco working a royal train. 40012 at some point had it's multiple working cable and socket removed from the bufferbeam, leaving two holes. Cheers Peter. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Mornin' Peter, Have a look at the class 40s on the Barrowmore MRG website, for Mostyn....still likely to be the best 4mm class 40s by some margin and they covered most variants too. http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/mostyn.html Dave Edited February 6, 2014 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks Dave, They are very nice class 40s, and there was an article in Express Modeller a few years back which does give some of the detail differences, so well worth a read if you can find a copy. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 ...yes, I have a copy of that, thanks. I was a member at Barrowmore for some years and had the chance to examine just how much detailing went into each of these locos. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tinsley-toton Posted February 6, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 6, 2014 A list of Class 40 detail differences can be found here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/cfas/discuss/72157625726740402/ For example sandboxes, without the rear sandboxes a full list. 40 006 40 014 40 038 40 041 40 044 40 046 40 048 40 052 40 055 40 060 - 6 40 073 40 077 40 078 40 080 40 082 40 086 40 089 40 091 40 092 40 094 40 096 40 099 40 101 40 103 40 104 40 112 40 12140 123 40 138 40 140 40 142 40143 40144 40 148 40 150 40 157 - 68 40 173 40 180 40 184 40 194 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 A list of Class 40 detail differences can be found here: http://www.flickr.com/groups/cfas/discuss/72157625726740402/ For example sandboxes, without the rear sandboxes a full list. 40 006 40 014 40 038 40 041 40 044 40 046 40 048 40 052 40 055 40 060 - 6 40 073 40 077 40 078 40 080 40 082 40 086 40 089 40 091 40 092 40 094 40 096 40 099 40 101 40 103 40 104 40 112 40 121 40 123 40 138 40 140 40 142 40143 40144 40 148 40 150 40 157 - 68 40 173 40 180 40 184 40 194 Thanks heaps tinsley-toton, That's superb, just about covers everything, I think I will be spending a bit of time checking it all out. Cheers Peter. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I never did get a definitive answer about "Nose Ladders". Which got them, how long did they last? Anyone know of a link for that? The Clarke book does mention them but it is rather vague on the subject... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 ...yes, I have a copy of that, thanks. I was a member at Barrowmore for some years and had the chance to examine just how much detailing went into each of these locos. Dave The diagram books for this sort of info are almost useless as they show the standard arrangement. Al Taylor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tinsley-toton Posted February 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2014 Pete All of the disc fitted 40s had nose ladders apart from the first 10 (D210 to D324 or 40010 to 40124 but not 40122) The bolts under the nose end right hand side horn grille are the giveaway sign that they were fitted. http://www.flickr.com/photos/21298507@N04/5542637862/in/photolist-9rMt8L-dDqPkk-9iZgjY-aodn1a-dhhLWy-9TGGdu-9iZei3-dcFimQ-gZehPs-d6msJC-a8ZWBA-bGmuoV-deNVFY-fuP1fp-diGgWx-aYTkfe-dDwbcm-dxjcWJ-da8wSc-9xYoLC-cYSZJU-d4WTGm-dan4NK-8fYycx-9qn3Zt-8bb4R4-8ZoBWk-8PvQip-d5LoiS-aA5Vtt-aoGSys-j1LwYV-d7oAkf-d7r4Yj-d7qShU-da7jY6-damMow-d6knGj-d7oE79-d2sP5b-aGTbZK-aGTcZ4-aGTbcv-d7rg7f-bzJv58-bXaV2G-9Nrv9o-d2uh7d-d5D47u-7yvh88-9uRjJ8 I can't help you about when they were removed though. T-T 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tinsley-toton Posted February 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2014 Pete After much reading I have just found this: Class 40s commencing with D210 appeared with a nose end ladder to provide access to the 2 hinged hatches on top of the nose, removal of the ladders began at a early stage and only a few examples remained by 1961. T-T 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 97406 at Springs Branch on 13 August 1985, note step up to bodyside engineroom door and missing covers to horns on the nose. Best of luck with your conversion from 40135. Tom 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Pete After much reading I have just found this: Class 40s commencing with D210 appeared with a nose end ladder to provide access to the 2 hinged hatches on top of the nose, removal of the ladders began at a early stage and only a few examples remained by 1961. T-T The doors on the top of the nose are released by two catches inside the nose end. You would release these then climb up the outside to open them. It very easy to open them from inside the nose, done it loads of times either to change wiper blades or climb on the roof to open the engine/bolier roof doors. Al Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
multiprinter Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The LMR allocated locos had the nose ladders removed very early in their lives because of the 25kv electrification projects. The ER locos had the ladders removed less quickly but I believe all had been removed by c.1962. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 97406.jpg 97406 at Springs Branch on 13 August 1985, note step up to bodyside engineroom door and missing covers to horns on the nose. Best of luck with your conversion from 40135. Tom Thanks Tom, I was looking at pictures of 40135 (97406) on Flickr the other day and noticed that the horn grilles were missing at one end. Something else to try and model. Any pics of how the horns site behind the grille would be good, Hadn't really noticed the step any pics of that would be nice. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 40012. has extra brackets half way up the nose doors, they are right next to the ones fitted in the normal position. Also small round disc bottom right of nose door, I think this was fitted due to the loco working a royal train. 40012 at some point had it's multiple working cable and socket removed from the bufferbeam, leaving two holes. Cheers Peter. Peter, After a bit of checking - the extra brackets on the nose doors were LM region headbard brackets. It seems that they were fitted to all the Disc fitted class 40s originally allocated to the LM region. D210-236, D255 (The ETH one) D267-D269, D287-D324 There were a few odd ball ones in later days when nose doors were plated over, odd brackets removed or doors swapped etc. A couple of pics 40012 Man Vic 6 June 1983 40012 Man Vic 6 June 1983 (Cropped) 40055 Reddish 26 December 1982 (The former ETH loco) The engine room steps. 40135 Doncaster works 10 March 1985 40135 Doncaster works 10 March 1985(cropped) 40082 Man Vic 25 July 1984 HTH 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tinsley-toton Posted February 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2014 After a bit of checking - the extra brackets on the nose doors were LM region headbard brackets. It seems that they were fitted to all the Disc fitted class 40s originally allocated to the LM region. D210-236, D255 (The ETH one) D267-D269, D287-D324 There were a few odd ball ones in later days when nose doors were plated over, odd brackets removed or doors swapped etc. All the info is provided in the link that I attached on message 8. The following Disc headcode locos have two brackets either side of the door catches 40003 No2 40010 40011 40012 40013 40014 40015 40016 40017 40018 40019 40020 40022 40023 40024 40025 40027 40028 40030 40031 40032 40034 40035 40036 40055 40067 40068 40069 40087 40088 40089 40090 40092 40093 40094 40095 40096 40097 40099 40100 40101 40102 40103 40104 40105 40106 40107 40108 40109 40110 40111 40112 40114 40115 40116 40117 40118 40119 40120 40123 40124 T-T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekEm8 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 TT With respect, what I stated was those locos which were originally fitted and not the odd ball ones from later in their life. BTW the link you gave is not very user friendly IMHO for queries such as the above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tinsley-toton Posted February 15, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 15, 2014 BTW the link you gave is not very user friendly IMHO for queries such as the above. Click on the link then Control F for whatever you want to look for, easy. T-T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Peter, After a bit of checking - the extra brackets on the nose doors were LM region headbard brackets. It seems that they were fitted to all the Disc fitted class 40s originally allocated to the LM region. D210-236, D255 (The ETH one) D267-D269, D287-D324 There were a few odd ball ones in later days when nose doors were plated over, odd brackets removed or doors swapped etc. A couple of pics 40012 Man Vic 6 June 1983 40012 MV 060883 TR1313.jpg 40012 Man Vic 6 June 1983 (Cropped) 40012 MV 060883 crop.jpg 40055 Reddish 26 December 1982 (The former ETH loco) 40055 RS 261282.jpg The engine room steps. 40135 Doncaster works 10 March 1985 40135 ZD 100385.jpg 40135 Doncaster works 10 March 1985(cropped) 40135 crop.jpg 40082 Man Vic 25 July 1984 40082 crop.jpg HTH Hi Derek, Always nice to see your pictures, thanks for the blow ups it gives me a good idea of how the step looks. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 A pair of 40s at Abergavenny The trailing engine is 40 057 but I am not sure of the leading engine. I am afraid the negatives have become seperated from the prints which had the details on. From what I can remember the train is Severn Tunnel Junction - Walton and I seem to remember they had failed on a special the previous day and where working back on this train. Class 40s where relatively common on the North and West in the eighties but tended to be on night time workings. My abiding memory of a 40 on this line is walking to work for a night turn and hearing the engine whistling away as it stood on the down main. I knew something was amiss as owing to the arrangement of block sections it was very rare for anything to be stopped on the down. On arrival in the box my mate informed me there was a train in the up loop sans engine. The crew on this train (when freights still had guards) thought they had hit someone at Penpergwm (just south of Abergavenny) so they had hooked the engine off and had gone back on the down line to examine the line. A world away from what would happen nowadays! Reminds me of the phrase that went something like; 'the past is another country, they do things differently there' 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tinsley-toton Posted February 18, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'd say that the leading one is 40135, no boiler tanks, has rear sand boxes, no disc on front end door, high mounted headboard bracket with lower clips and the worksplate area is highlighted, can't be many others that it could be. T-T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggesford box Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'd say that the leading one is 40135, no boiler tanks, has rear sand boxes, no disc on front end door, high mounted headboard bracket with lower clips and the worksplate area is highlighted, can't be many others that it could be. T-T Hi, I have zoomed in on a higher res scan of middle photo and it certainly looks like it could be 135 though it is not quite sharp enough to be 100% certain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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