Washout at Dawlish

[Re6/6]

Just watched our local ITV westcountry news and Robin Gisby one of NR’s big cheeses was ‘interviewed’ (more like grilled) by one of the presenters Ian Axton (who I had always has some regard for, until now).

 

In my view he was rather rude and persistent in his questioning. (questions and answers are a precis from my memory)

 

I.A. “Mr Gisby, how much is all this going to cost?”

 

R.G. “I really don’t have any idea at the moment. It’s more important to get the railway repaired as quickly as possible. We have been working up to twenty hours a day when the weather permits”

 

I.A. persistently asked “ Surely you must have some idea Mr Gisby”

 

R.G. “No I don’t. Surely getting the line repaired is the priority here.

 

I.A. “ What would you say to the ‘holiday trade’ that the line might not be open until Easter?”

 

R.G. looked rather irritated and I don’t recall his response.

 

How on earth would one expect him to reply to such a stupid question. …perhaps……”oh yes, I can wave a magic wand…..”

 

This sort of puerile and uninformed questioning is unfortunately the norm these days.

 

At least BBC’s ‘Spotlight’ just let him speak.

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

There were posters up asking for volunteers in our garage to go down there and drive the replacement buses. Rumour has it, however that Stagecoach have undercut us so I'll ask for details tomorrow.

 

Shame, as i've never been to Devon and I'd like to see it for myself.

Go Ahead Oxford are down here with about 10 coaches on RR services plus lots of local operators working mostley Plymouth Tiverton as this is quicker than the alternatives. The Oxford drivers are put up in the 4* Copthorne Hotel.

 

SS

[ZiderHead]

Just watched our local ITV westcountry news and Robin Gisby one of NR’s big cheeses was ‘interviewed’ (more like grilled) by one of the presenters Ian Axton (who I had always has some regard for, until now).

 

In my view he was rather rude and persistent in his questioning. (questions and answers are a precis from my memory)

 

etc

 

Its an worthwhile question, although directed at the wrong person. The cost to NR will be born by rail users and taxpayers nationally, so largely irrelevant to locals*. Presumably the reporter wanted to know the cost to the local economy, so they should have sought out an economist in a relevant organisation to ask.

 

It would have been nice if RG hadnt been so evasive in his answer though, that PR-trained "Not answering the question, then saying something positive about something else" schtick is very irritating.

 

 

* depending on how much of the bill will be passed on to fares on this route.

Edited February 19, 2014 by ZiderHead

[Oldddudders]

Its an worthwhile question, although directed at the wrong person. The cost to NR will be born by rail users and taxpayers nationally, so largely irrelevant to locals*. Presumably the reporter wanted to know the cost to the local economy, so they should have sought out an economist in a relevant organisation to ask.

 

It would have been nice if RG hadnt been so evasive in his answer though, that PR-trained "Not answering the question, then saying something positive about something else" schtick is very irritating.

 

 

* depending on how much of the bill will be passed on to fares on this route.

Why was it directed at the wrong person? RG undoubtedly will know the £s in the fullness of time, but the question is irrelevant now, and any answer would be subject to substantial amendment before trains start running again. My last boss negotiated with RG on a revenue-loss issue re WCML upgrade, and no doubt Mark Hopwood will do the same. As such, there should be no direct effect on local fares.

[ZiderHead]

Why was it directed at the wrong person?

 

Well I assume that the local reporter, reporting for the local news, and later asking about the effect on the local holiday trade is more interested in the cost to local economy rather than the potential increase in national fares.

[Rods_of_Revolution]

That triggers the question: as NR isn't responsible for (breaches of) the dykes, why should NR foot the bill, and by extension all railway users & UK taxpayers?

 

The seawall as far as I'm aware is the responsibilty of NR. It was built by the South Devon Railway, which became part of the GWR, then part of BR, then Railtrack and now I assume NR.

 

Cheers,

 

Jack

[Rob F]

The rail tops have started to rust very quickly!!

Was in Carbis Bay on Boxing Day and the rail tops were already orange after less than 36 hours since the last train.

 

Rob

[kevinlms]

 

Just watched our local ITV westcountry news and Robin Gisby one of NR’s big cheeses was ‘interviewed’ (more like grilled) by one of the presenters Ian Axton (who I had always has some regard for, until now).

 

In my view he was rather rude and persistent in his questioning. (questions and answers are a precis from my memory)

 

I.A. “Mr Gisby, how much is all this going to cost?”

 

R.G. “I really don’t have any idea at the moment. It’s more important to get the railway repaired as quickly as possible. We have been working up to twenty hours a day when the weather permits”

 

I.A. persistently asked “ Surely you must have some idea Mr Gisby”

 

R.G. “No I don’t. Surely getting the line repaired is the priority here.

 

I.A. “ What would you say to the ‘holiday trade’ that the line might not be open until Easter?”

 

R.G. looked rather irritated and I don’t recall his response.

 

How on earth would one expect him to reply to such a stupid question. …perhaps……”oh yes, I can wave a magic wand…..”

 

This sort of puerile and uninformed questioning is unfortunately the norm these days.

 

At least BBC’s ‘Spotlight’ just let him speak.

 

Agreed, it sounds like the reporter should be using that technique on politicians when they use that type of non-answer and keep repeating what they want to say and avoid the question. In this case, the decision has been made, probably at high levels, to repair the line - full stop. The cost is irrelevant, except its probably 'horrendous'.

 

To keep the Mods happy just click, like, disagree etc, rather than take the thread down 'pollie speak' and get it locked.

[Pete 75C]

Can anyone tell me what the sticky-up pipe things* are in this view?

 

 

* I doubt that's correct engineering terminology but hey...

 

[Gwiwer]

Without knowing the engineering technology intimately I would suggest they are plastic liners inserted into new work which allow reinforcing rods to be inserted.  But as always if I'm wrong I'll sit (because standing at the keyboard is awkward) corrected.  Or are they for drainage and the tops show how much work has still to be done to restore track level?

Edited February 20, 2014 by Gwiwer

[Fat Controller]

Without knowing the engineering technology intimately I would suggest they are plastic liners inserted into new work which allow reinforcing rods to be inserted.  But as always if I'm wrong I'll sit (because standing at the keyboard is awkward) corrected.  Or are they for drainage and the tops show how much work has still to be done to restore track level?

Could they be something as simple as plastic sacking wrapped around the exposed ends of the re-bar to stop salt accumulating on them whilst waiting for the next pour? Re-bar tends to go from old into newer, as it needs to be keyed in as well as possible. Hence the rebar sticking out of flat roofs all round the Med, in anticipation of the next floor being built...

[petethemole]

I noticed that in Egypt. The tour guide explained there was a tax payable on completed buildings, which required a roof. Owners of blocks of flats leave the top storey unfinished; the current top floor keeps the rare rain out and there's always the option of adding another floor.

 

Pete

[The Stationmaster]

Can anyone tell me what the sticky-up pipe things* are in this view?

 

camputerb86.jpg

 

* I doubt that's correct engineering terminology but hey...

I suspect they are for drainage as they look to be quite a large diameter - but that is only a suspicion.  The other item of interest is the row of whatevers between the concrete and the former wall - I did wonder if they were blockwork but on enlargement they look to me more like those expanded polystyrene forms which are used with a concrete (and possibly rebar) fill.  Hopefully NR will publish some more detail pictures of the work now in hand as I don't think it's really fair to ask the good Cap'n to go paddling in wet concrete on one of his visits to the site.

 

There are some up to date details pics here -

 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/timetables-and-travel/storm-damage/dawlish/

Edited February 20, 2014 by The Stationmaster

[trisonic]

It's possible, Mike, that they are the drainage equivalent of "Stink pipes" in the roofs of house - to stop vapour lock.

 

Best, Pete.

[Pete 75C]

  What with my "sticky up pipe things" and Mike's "whatevers", there's obviously not a proper engineer amongst us...!

[Captain Kernow]

Or CK or Gary H. 

 

(Thankyou both for posting photos and updates about the damage and repairs. Stay safe). 

I can confirm the updated NR website states mid-April as the reopening target date. This has widespread support across the industry and the political spectrum and is a robust target to work towards.

[trisonic]

Of course (LifeboatMan) if you had written: "What are the line of vertical pipes protruding from the sub-work?" we would have thought better of you............

 

Now the good Cap'n may have a chance to put us all right...

 

Best, Pete.

Edited February 20, 2014 by trisonic

[Pete Harvey]

I would say that the "sticky up pipe things" are parts of pilings which I would hope would extend down through the ground below the wall into some bedrock as an anchor so that the whole slab of concrete they have poured is not washed out to see rather than just a section of the wall, I'm sure what ever they do is done for a reason and not just to plug the hole as the little dutch boy did in the . 

[Captain Kernow]

Latest screen pic although resized bigger to see better work detail been done.

 

camputerb86.jpg

I see that you managed not to capture me during my site visit yesterday... (photos to follow..)!

[Dunsignalling]

There were posters up asking for volunteers in our garage to go down there and drive the replacement buses. Rumour has it, however that Stagecoach have undercut us so I'll ask for details tomorrow.

 

Shame, as i've never been to Devon and I'd like to see it for myself.

I was in Exeter earlier this week and St Davids forecourt looked like a bus spotters paradise with vehicles from all over the place ranging from tiny firms from a 50 mile-or-so radius to bigger ones from much further away.

 

The disruption is such that they obviously need far more than can be hired in from major local operators.

 

John

[Captain Kernow]

Of course (LifeboatMan) if you had written: "What are the line of vertical pipes protruding from the sub-work?" we would have thought better of you............

 

Now the good Cap'n may have a chance to put us all right...

 

Best, Pete.

Now then, those 'sticky-up pipey things'... (technical term)... I did ask myself what they were (and no, Mr Stationmaster, I didn't have to go wading around in wet concrete - there were a couple of lads down there already being paid to do that, to level it all off as it came out of the pipe), and I believe their function is connected with drainage.

 

Interestingly, the cement mixer 'doing the business' is right up on the main road, with a long pipe coming down the steps between Sea Lawn Terrace and Riviera Terrace, and then connected to the big 'spidery' type thing (another technical term), and thus down into the hole. My photos (to be uploaded later, visiting relatives permitting) will make all that clear.

[yorkie_pudd]

I see that you managed not to capture me during my site visit yesterday... (photos to follow..)!

 

Then you must have been doing the extremely IMPORTANT JOB  of cuppa & butty at the refreshment van to keep you going, which is well deserved by all of you down there in the work crew. 

 

 

 

ps: forgot to say yes you was spotted leaving hand print & CK in the concrete hehe

Edited February 20, 2014 by yorkie_pudd

[Ron Ron Ron]

....The other item of interest is the row of whatevers between the concrete and the former wall - I did wonder if they were blockwork but on enlargement they look to me more like those expanded polystyrene forms which are used with a concrete (and possibly rebar) fill.  Hopefully NR will publish some more detail pictures of the work now in hand......

 

There are some up to date details pics here -

 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/timetables-and-travel/storm-damage/dawlish/

 

There is indeed a closer view of that "row of whatevers" (I wonder if you can ask for them at Travis Perkins?) in the photos you linked to Mike.    Click Here.

 

This view gives a different perspective to the relative size and height of the containers, compared with the sea wall. They don't look so small in the webcam and other photo view from road and former track level.

 

Other interesting photos...

 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/assets/0/72/4294967297/2147483713/30064774313/30064774306/30064774314/fa7ce2c8-d9ab-48c4-8840-69d226213ac1.png

 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/assets/0/72/4294967297/2147483713/30064774313/30064774306/30064774314/1504e68e-b7b1-473e-b9b5-36345bad5b42.png

 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/assets/0/72/4294967297/2147483713/30064774313/30064774306/30064774314/8666206d-e1c6-4afa-935d-6f6fd56299f2.png

 

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/assets/0/72/4294967297/2147483713/30064774313/30064774306/30064774314/ed554fd3-c8ec-4010-98dd-278e13eac489.png

 

 

 

 

.

[yorkie_pudd]

Latest screen pic from http://www.siteeyelive.com/monitor/bbcdawlish/camputerb86.jpg

 

 

spot the added humour

[TheQ]

  What with my "sticky up pipe things" and Mike's "whatevers", there's obviously not a proper engineer amongst us...!

Oh there are, just not in construction!,

Heres a thought if you or I were to do this amount of work, even for repair, we would have council employees crawling all over us for planning permissions demanding we STOP (what ever the danger to property). until building regs and planning had wound there intermidable way through the council. I take it this will be a case of do it now and get retrospective after!!

 The Q.