robmcg Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 The real challenge I find is to rename/renumber, weather and add coal and details without opening the box What really galls is that many consider this 'non-factory' work devalues a model. I hope and trust enough think the opposite when it is done as well as you do it. As many say, "there's no accounting for taste" , and many other similar things. Equally, some including me I hope appreciate superb modelling as done by Hornby and you, or even (shudder) Bachmann... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 All this discussion aobut the buyer's rights. Yes, technically one should not have to glue bits back on to an RTR loco but doing so is less effort than returning the loco and running the risk of further hassle if further damage occurs to the loco or its replacement. Well, when a buyer receives a damaged loco all sensible sellers will offer a replacement or refund upon return of damaged item. It's hard to judge whether or nor Hornby and Bachmann RTR 00 models have got worse in the last year, and to be honest the risk adds an edge to the pleasure of receiving a good 'un! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2014 Agreed, but it is still less hassle (and quicker) to glue a couple of parts back on than it is to return the item and wait for its replacement which hopefully will not also get damaged in transit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 There are some here who have said they have had 4 'goes' at buying a satisfactory model, with attendant returns and replacements, I have never been that unlucky. I'd still like to know what percentage of retailers' Hornby and Bachmann RTR 00 stock is sold without returns. I agree that gluing a part back on is often a more practical answer to something damaged in shop or transit, but it is not an option for everyone, especially such as a gift at Christmas, where finding a chimney off or glazing adrift is not the best thing in a present. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 What really galls is that many consider this 'non-factory' work devalues a model. I hope and trust enough think the opposite when it is done as well as you do it. As many say, "there's no accounting for taste" , and many other similar things. Equally, some including me I hope appreciate superb modelling as done by Hornby and you, or even (shudder) Bachmann... I think with modern superdetailed models it is not that straightforward. When buying on the seconhand market, factory condition means you know what you are getting and so it's the safe option. You only have to look on ebay to see that superbly enhanced locos (i.e. very good weathering, modification to a different name/number with any appropriate corrections, etc,) often sell at a premium. The problem is when the work is of an indifferent or amateur standard. It's a free country and people can do what they like to their models, but if the 'improvements' are of an inferior standard it will devalue the model compare to the 'blank canvas' of factory spec. The most obvious examples are dire weathering of the dipped-in-gravy or smeared-in-black variety but there are others! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hornby boxes on new models are awfully tight,Rob.To leave no trace of 'wear',they would have to be 'spirited' out of their 'womb'.Sometimes one is tempted to perform a Caesarian.......Hope the B17 Sandringham lives up to your expectation.A real beauty in LNER green,especially when matched with Gresley teaks.Performance to match....handsome is as handsome does.Am now in the process of gathering a rake of suburban teaks.....gorgeous models... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 A trick for opening boxes was shown to me by a shopkeeper many years ago. Take a steel rule (a 6" is easy to handle, but a 12" does have a wider 'blade' though) and insert it under the box end flap. Wriggle the flap out of the box - after you have done a couple you will find it easy with no damage at all to the packaging. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Hornby boxes on new models are awfully tight,Rob.To leave no trace of 'wear',they would have to be 'spirited' out of their 'womb'.Sometimes one is tempted to perform a Caesarian.......Hope the B17 Sandringham lives up to your expectation.A real beauty in LNER green,especially when matched with Gresley teaks.Performance to match....handsome is as handsome does.Am now in the process of gathering a rake of suburban teaks.....gorgeous models... Ah, it was no problem, all looks perfect, the packaging was snug and firm, I was just a bit hasty. The model appears perfect too, just in case someone thought Hornby never achieve this exalted status these days... interim pic... edit; how charming, they got the front wheel spokes right! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2014 Too many spokes on the bogie Rob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Now to render the engine in 'three days out of works' condition! There goes my Sunday.... Blame Coachmann, he gave me a pic of a Schools in SR green to play with last week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 I also did this yesterday, the man in the cab is Mod4 I believe.... engine fired by old Harry, who starred in the Schools pic These pics courtesy Bruck's Violin Concerto No.1 in G and Brahms Piano Concerto 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 3, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 3, 2014 I also did this yesterday, the man in the cab is Mod4 I believe.... engine fired by old Harry, who starred in the Schools pic b17_Sandringham_LNER_7a_r800.jpg These pics courtesy Bruck's Violin Concerto No.1 in G and Brahms Piano Concerto 2 Who's in the bacon sandwich just about to cook on the shovel,then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 um, a Hornby secret, just like the mysterious front detail on this lovely model, with long guard irons and highly curious lining on front steps, the Darlington shop foreman was clearly on leave at the time... oops thread drift, MODERATOR ! ! this post is neither about new nor damaged Hornby... mutter, mutter, edit; oh no, wait, the centre lower lamp iron is 6 degress off vertical, send it back! on the other hand I'll fix it myself a more realistic picture later today or tomorrow perhaps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I just sold a Schools class Blundells, bought new, never out of packaging, and sent it by courier to a NZ buyer, our couriers are generally very good, but not above dropping or throwing a package. It arrived with chimney off and a cab glass out so I have offered her a refund plus courier cost, she mentioned her husband being 'new to model railways' and I shuddered thinking 'what an introduction to modern 00 modelling!' ... the Schools being the dreaded 4-pin plug, invert tender without damage, fit brakerods in two seconds, easy... she also bought a new B1 which survived ok in the package, and also has the 4-pin plug. So I sent a second hopefully polite message suggesting that the chimney will go back on with a tiny touch of glue (polystyrene or the cyano-acrylate (super glue) used sparingly as by the factory), same with cab glass if you can insert it with a cotton bud and petroleum jelly, or fingers and use a toothpick to adjust into position. Possibly this was the wrong thing to do. She had asked for replacement or refund. ...and I had offered a full refund including courier cost to return the model , and not having any more Blundells pristine models I offered an option of a more expensive professionally weathered Blundells, or a replacement of a similar cheaper model Haileybury from a set with a smallish credit her and no freight costs for the replacement etc., and an apology. Haven't heard yet as it was only today. I pack my models in lots of bubblewrap around the factory box, with cardboard wrap-around stiffener if 2-in-a-pack (as this above-mentioned was), snugly into a folded plastic bag, sounds bad but works better than you'd think, and have had one or two mild damage cases in 300+ sales / courier deliveries in NZ. I think possibly the damaged Blundells may have had transit brackets removed, and one or more foam wedges missing, but hadn't looked into the packaging beyond seeing that the tissue-wrap around engine and tender was new. Who'd be a trader? My schools arrived with the entire backhead detached a few years ago. Your schools seems to suffered from shock. This can leave the entire package in a fine condition and us with no obvious reason why bits fell. Polystyrene is quite a solid material. If a package is dropped, the shockwave from the impact is easily transmitted to the loco. A shockwave is a propagating compression and decompression (flexing) moving at the speed of sound or faster. This sudden flexing causes bits to fly off. When HMS Belfast went over a mine, the shock wave caused the deck to move and down 2 feet at the speed of sound causing instantly many sailors to have broken legs. Hornby locos used to be made from polystyrene plastic made by ICI, it was a very tough and shock resistant (Lima used quite a brittle plastic at time), I wonder if they still use it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Thankyou JSpencer, I have recent experience of a major shock, the Christchurch earthquake in NZ where although 'only 6.something' on the Richter scale involved lateral acceleration above 2G and this caused much damage and 150+ deaths, where a 7.1 nearby five months previously caused no deaths, but substantial damage. Hornby's new packaging has done very well for me, but one B1 has smokebox handles broken because of slight misalignment in the cradle and or sloppiness at the factory. QC issue again. Meanwhile, my newly-arrived Gresley B17 by Royal Mail air and local courier (none-to-gently thrown at door) is fine, ... I had better stick to the thread subject from here on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedgeaf Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi, first post. Have read the forum many times, but decided to join and post as just had exactly the same problem as this topic. A Hornby Patriot from hattons which arrived with a punched in buffer and broken buffer beam plus something hanging of a driving wheel. Hattons were excellent I must say, email/phone call and full refund. I could have lived with the buffer as it only needed a little glue to fix it up once carefully pushed back out, and the bit off the wheel I'd just have cut off, but a broken buffer beam was a bit much. Plus, although it wasn't new, I did kind of want something pristine as the loco had my Army Corps as it's name and have just left active service with them. Hey ho - to keep looking for another ! The problem I decided was that the loco wasn't secure in it's part of the polystyrene tray, it was free to move fore and aft hence the damage. I think a retaining plastic clip (as on HSTs for instance) was missing. Judging by ebay adds this must be very common as there are more being advertised with "damaged buffers" than without ! Anyway, I would also agree that hattons don't help themselves and that yes, stuff is put in the box and then the void filled with air cushions, but there is no actual padding under the bottom items, nor around them, and they are often free to move. When I sell stuff on ebay I tend to bubble wrap then into a box, with additional filler material on all sides. So far no damage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 Sad to say I think Hattons have some trouble finding either people who can pack things well or the care taken by parcel post or other deliverers has become more slipshod. Maybe the number of returns is low enough that it 'makes sense' to pack as they do. I get about 95% undamaged from them on the other side of the world, but that's mostly new. Second-hand requires more skill and care if details are on and factory packaging foam inserts etc missing, and I sell some of my models and it really is hard to judge how to best pack models. Soft thick tissue around engines often works, I bought 5 already-detailed/weathered models off a private Ebay seller in the UK and they all arrived fine, I think one step was off one. p.s. welcome hedgeaf ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2014 Hi, first post. Have read the forum many times, but decided to join and post as just had exactly the same problem as this topic. A Hornby Patriot from hattons which arrived with a punched in buffer and broken buffer beam plus something hanging of a driving wheel. Hattons were excellent I must say, email/phone call and full refund. I could have lived with the buffer as it only needed a little glue to fix it up once carefully pushed back out, and the bit off the wheel I'd just have cut off, but a broken buffer beam was a bit much. Plus, although it wasn't new, I did kind of want something pristine as the loco had my Army Corps as it's name and have just left active service with them. Hey ho - to keep looking for another ! The problem I decided was that the loco wasn't secure in it's part of the polystyrene tray, it was free to move fore and aft hence the damage. I think a retaining plastic clip (as on HSTs for instance) was missing. Judging by ebay adds this must be very common as there are more being advertised with "damaged buffers" than without ! Anyway, I would also agree that hattons don't help themselves and that yes, stuff is put in the box and then the void filled with air cushions, but there is no actual padding under the bottom items, nor around them, and they are often free to move. When I sell stuff on ebay I tend to bubble wrap then into a box, with additional filler material on all sides. So far no damage. Nice to know it wasn't just my Patriot it happened too and this one was well packed by me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 This suggests serious mishandling by delivery people, although quite how couriers manage to inflict such damage to the Patriot, and similar but slightly less damage to my Standard Class 4 escapes me. In the video of Hornby's Roger Canham (sp?) in the UK or China thread the camera showed a lot of boxes in Margate and some, well a few, had major crush damage, but apparently this is normal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 While the (real) deliveries in the attached video clip are a bit over the top, ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM3SRG7D21Y but we don't see how packages get handled inside mail processing centres. I'd suggest that it's not much different from the deliveries shown. I received a package today courtesy of Royal Mail and the US Postal Service. It was carefully packed with spongy foam - thankfully, since one corner of the sturdy box was stove in (as far as my limited forensics abilities can determine) by perhaps 2cm. The contents in this case (GWR shunters' trucks) were just fine but our delicate models take a pounding in the post. This clip was too late to make the CNN piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy66NLnXl90 The worst offenders in these videos tend to be FedEx and UPS who hire lots of temporary workers for the Christmas rush. I still think that what we don't see in the processing centres might be bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 A degree of luck is involved, methinks, with basic deliveries anyway. Most cardboard boxes containing 00 RTR engines do get thrown. I have found items stand a better chance of survival when sent alone, less weight, they bounce better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Well I had an old wrenn 4mt loco delivered Monday. Despite the thin walled packaging, it arrived in one piece. They just don,t make them like they used to ( thank goodness). Before you ask why a wrenn, I found they did two 4mt engines from the Bluebell. Hattons just kindly replaced a model for me. This one was a faulty manufactured item. I stuck an additional order on top to return with the replacement and asked them to send it by DHL. He said they normally sent replacements by the cheapest means. I replied, yeah and that happens it takes a long time to get and with end up being broken and having to be replaced again. I don,t fancy playing a game of tennis, and placed the additional order specifically to get the replacement sent back within 2 days by courier. In any case I,m paying off the courier. Will it work? I,ll let you know in 2 days. (Caused Hattons a mess with their ordering system though!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The replacement CEP car along with a Bachmann Class 37 I ordered on top in order to get the replacement sent back intact arrived today. Hattons picked and posted it yesterday. So definitely the DHL method is best for international parcels and more secure than the slow/cheap method of delivery. DHL costs £14 for Europe vs £10 for slow and cheap. Definitely worth it to avoid the hassle of replacing damaged items. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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