RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2015 Good Luck Joseph. I am looking forward to seeing the prototypes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 21, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 Thanks, Clive. I'm probably going to need a bit of luck on this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 21, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 I will post this here and then try to post a link on GrKing's more recent thread on the same subject. I am now in a position to pay for CAD work to be done to develop the first items in a range of OO pointwork. Once these have been produced as prototypes by way of 3D printing and we have been able to assess the costing of other aspects (e.g. machining of blades, fabrication of crossings), we should be in a position to commission tooling for injection moulding. That may need further finance by way of crowdfunding but I don't think it sensible or fair to start the crowdfunding until people have a much clearer understanding of what the product will look like. The crowdfunding proposal will also set out the business plan, including distribution. The key technical aspects, derived from comments on both threads, will be: a. compatibility with modern ready-to-run OO locos and rolling stock; b. appropriately sized sleepering on both plain track and pointwork; c. compatibility with DCC; d. code 75 bullhead rail; e. switches made from rail and not hinged. The first phase launch would include: #6 turnouts (L & R) #6 crossovers (L & R) #6 diamond crossing - straight for trailing lead to goods yard #6 single slip Sleeper base moulded in 60' panels (or 2 half panels) The second phase will include: #8 turnouts (L & R) #8 crossovers (L & R) #8 double-junctions (L & R) - which as some will guess involves curved diamonds #6 double slip I still have a "day job" so I will try not to be unrealistic as to timescale. With a following wind, I would hope to have the prototypes available in late Spring with a view to launch in Autumn. I should add that I would expect most of the above to be available both as kits and ready-to-lay. As things move on, it may be that the more "exotic" items will be kit only as they appeal to a smaller market. As the turnouts will come in two parts, crossing module + switch module, the easiest way to allow folks to create trap/catch points will be to sell a switch module in kit form. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Well done Joseph! I shall certainly buy some! I was interested to see you are planning on building the track in modules, have you seen Lima Nova track? I've never seen it in person, but it used the modular approach to allow some really key track formations to be assembled, including scissors within the 6 foot leading to slips, which would be something Peco can't offer. I've attached some pictures I found on the net which explain much better than I can. I may have posted these previously, as the track threads seem to have been going for ever! . 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 I will post this here and then try to post a link on GrKing's more recent thread on the same subject. I am now in a position to pay for CAD work to be done to develop the first items in a range of OO pointwork. Once these have been produced as prototypes by way of 3D printing and we have been able to assess the costing of other aspects (e.g. machining of blades, fabrication of crossings), we should be in a position to commission tooling for injection moulding. That may need further finance by way of crowdfunding but I don't think it sensible or fair to start the crowdfunding until people have a much clearer understanding of what the product will look like. The crowdfunding proposal will also set out the business plan, including distribution. The key technical aspects, derived from comments on both threads, will be: a. compatibility with modern ready-to-run OO locos and rolling stock; b. appropriately sized sleepering on both plain track and pointwork; c. compatibility with DCC; d. code 75 bullhead rail; e. switches made from rail and not hinged. The first phase launch would include: #6 turnouts (L & R) #6 crossovers (L & R) #6 diamond crossing - straight for trailing lead to goods yard #6 single slip Sleeper base moulded in 60' panels (or 2 half panels) The second phase will include: #8 turnouts (L & R) #8 crossovers (L & R) #8 double-junctions (L & R) - which as some will guess involves curved diamonds #6 double slip I still have a "day job" so I will try not to be unrealistic as to timescale. With a following wind, I would hope to have the prototypes available in late Spring with a view to launch in Autumn. Joseph What a super course of action, whilst I do accept it is early days AndyID has proved this method works, next is to get something printed with a view of perhaps supplying the bases which may produce an income stream to provide ready built items A big well done 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 21, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) Well done Joseph! I shall certainly buy some! I was interested to see you are planning on building the track in modules, have you seen Lima Nova track? I've never seen it in person, but it used the modular approach to allow some really key track formations to be assembled, including scissors within the 6 foot leading to slips, which would be something Peco can't offer. I've attached some pictures I found on the net which explain much better than I can. I may have posted these previously, as the track threads seem to have been going for ever! post-238-0-55262100-1353682177.jpg .post-238-0-00862400-1353681459.jpg post-238-0-37426000-1353681445.jpg post-238-0-55546600-1353681429.jpg Yes, you posted these before and I have acknowledged your contribution. They came into production about the time that I went into model railway retailing and were always of interest. Sadly rather expensive at the time and curiously always sold in pairs. So it did not take off. About the time that RocoLine came out too which was a good system. And you are right, it has been going on "for ever", a lot of key posts were two years ago. Where has that time gone? I have never lost my interest in this but been through a bit of a tough time financially since then. Edited December 21, 2015 by Joseph_Pestell 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 21, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 Joseph What a super course of action, whilst I do accept it is early days AndyID has proved this method works, next is to get something printed with a view of perhaps supplying the bases which may produce an income stream to provide ready built items A big well done I think that 3D printing will have a part to play beyond the initial prototyping. It will be useful to allow compatible but made-to-measure add-ons to the main range. But to get to a reasonable price, injection moulding has to be the way for the mainstream products. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Have you thought, Joseph, of a crowd funded approach? It may well be something you have discounted, but it does have some advantages. Certainly in the 'cycling world', which is another of my interests, several schemes have been successfully started in this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 21, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2015 Have you thought, Joseph, of a crowd funded approach? It may well be something you have discounted, but it does have some advantages. Certainly in the 'cycling world', which is another of my interests, several schemes have been successfully started in this way. Post #1425, line 4. As explained there, I think it better to do the initial prototyping first and have something to show people before going to crowdfunding. 3D printing makes that a viable option. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Smith Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Joseph - this is actually in response to your post #1428 but for some reason the 'Reply quoting this post' doesn't work.... Turnouts in two parts suggests a similar arrangement to the SMP plastic based 36" radius point kit. If I remember correctly the 2 base sections are basically held in alignment by the 2 stock rails threaded through the chairs - there may be a plastic joint but I can't remember. Your smallest, #6, would be approx. 48" so fit neatly as the next larger radius..... You don't mention in your spec but I assume these would be live-frog? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 23, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2015 Joseph - this is actually in response to your post #1428 but for some reason the 'Reply quoting this post' doesn't work.... Turnouts in two parts suggests a similar arrangement to the SMP plastic based 36" radius point kit. If I remember correctly the 2 base sections are basically held in alignment by the 2 stock rails threaded through the chairs - there may be a plastic joint but I can't remember. Your smallest, #6, would be approx. 48" so fit neatly as the next larger radius..... You don't mention in your spec but I assume these would be live-frog? I have not seen a recently manufactured SMP kit but back in the day there were round lugs that clipped into a hole on the second part. In the outline specification, I may not have made it clear enough. But by DCC compatible, I meant to imply metal crossing with dropper wire for polarity switching. So yes, "live frog". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglian Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) Joseph, This is very exciting news and I very much look forward to seeing images of the first engineering samples. I think you are entirely right that folks need to be able to see what it is they might be committing to buy before going down the Kickstarter route. Perhaps you've already considered this but once you have those crucial 3D printed samples it may well be worth visiting as many shows as possible so that your potential customers can see and handle the product prototypes. I've not read this whole thread having come via the link to it you provided elsewhere on the forum but at this point do you have an estimated price that you are aiming for? Finally if there were a phase three could a three way point be a possible addition to the range? Edited December 24, 2015 by Anglian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 24, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) Joseph, This is very exciting news and I very much look forward to seeing images of the first engineering samples. I think you are entirely right that folks need to be able to see what it is they might be committing to buy before going down the Kickstarter route. Perhaps you've already considered this but once you have those crucial 3D printed samples it may well be worth visiting as many shows as possible so that your potential customers can see and handle the product prototypes. I've not read this whole thread having come via the link to it you provided elsewhere on the forum but at this point do you have an estimated price that you are aiming for? Finally if there were a phase three could a three way point be a possible addition to the range? Visiting shows will certainly be part of the process. But I can't do too many as I have existing work commitments on Saturdays and sometimes on Sundays too. On pricing, it seems likely that it would be a bit more than Peco 75 so about the same as Peco 83. It depends to some extent not just on production costs but on the distribution method. I do think that a 3-way point is quite an important item to include but it is much more complicated and does not share much by way of components with other pointwork. So that will be some way off. Edited December 24, 2015 by Joseph_Pestell 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Buhar Posted December 24, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2015 Good luck with this Joseph. However, I do wonder if it might be wise to wait to see what DCC Concepts come up with as Legacy RTR. If it's got unappealing sleeper spacing, huge check rail gaps or is very expensive, then you could still be onto something. But if they crack the nut, I'm not sure two versions can be commercial. I don't know if Ally Pally might be a significant date to find out their progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted December 24, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2015 I'm sure that we can rely on the guys from DCC Concepts to bring out a good product without any of the faults you mention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium martin_wynne Posted December 24, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 24, 2015 I do wonder if it might be wise to wait to see what DCC Concepts come up with as Legacy RTR. DCC Concepts Legacy track templates are online. It is very likely that the ready-made track will correspond. (These are large files, slow to load, can be zoomed-in for high-detail): http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-A5.pdf http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-B6.pdf http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-B7.pdf http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-B8.pdf http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-B9.pdf Notes: http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-a5 http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-b6 http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-b7 http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-b8 http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-b9 Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 (edited) DCC Concepts Legacy track templates are online. It is very likely that the ready-made track will correspond. (These are large files, slow to load, can be zoomed-in for high-detail): http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-A5.pdf http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-B6.pdf http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-B7.pdf http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-B8.pdf http://www.dccconcepts.com/resources/PDFs/010-Product-Related/110-Track-and-Track-Making/M-Legacy-Track-Template-Turnout-B9.pdf Notes: http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-a5 http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-b6 http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-b7 http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-b8 http://www.dccconcepts.com/vamr/legacy-track-template-turnout-b9 Martin. Thanks very much for this Martin. But in their notes "turnout motors" ?? Edited December 26, 2015 by Pacific231G 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phatbob Posted December 26, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 26, 2015 Joseph,This is great news. Good luck with this venture. Just one question that's not currently answered in your specifications as I understand them;What track-spacing are you using for your crossovers? (In simple terms, how far apart will parallel tracks be?)One of my "issues" with current proprietary H0 based systems is that the tracks are far too far apart.Thanks and a happy new year to you and yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Edwardian Posted January 20, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2016 I have come to this late in the day, and confess that I have not read all 58 pages. I think this is a commendable and much needed venture. I think the matters set out in your 21 December post would be a great start. I would be a customer for the following reasons: Modelling 4mm involves many compromises; curve radii, compression of station/platform lengths etc. With cosmetically better finescale track well ballasted and finished, the narrower than scale tracks are among the least of the compromises. With deference to those who like track or point construction, and accepting them to be right when they say it's not as hard as all that and enjoyable once you get into the swing, it is, nevertheless, not one of the many aspects of the hobby to which I would choose to devote a high proportion of my rather limited time. It follows that the C&L policy, to encourage modellers to take up turn-out construction is not persuasive. Ready made OO track-work to code 75 would be a boon and fill a real gap. I feel it little short of cheeky the way Peco have continued to foist their one-size fits no-one HO trackage on the UK market. One might have expected them to have taken the lead in developing better UK outline OO track. Great praise and riches to whoever fills their place. Of course, as a Great Western fan, there is no-one producing even flexi-track with 2-bolt chairs. How completely uneconomical would be a 2-bolt chair option?!? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Joseph - you may find it useful (if not already done) to discuss crowd-funding issues with DJM Dave, who has commented on this recently, albeit for loco/MU models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I think this would be a very suitable kickstater project , Ive been involved in contributing to an essentially crowd sourced wagon project , and is been implemented via DJM, its surprising what can be raised from a relatively small group of people I wouydl say that merely taking the project to the stage of a good set of scaleable 3D drawings might be enough to get people to " invest" , I know I would dave I wish it the best of luck Edited January 21, 2016 by Junctionmad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Joseph - given the announcement made by Peco at Nuremburg (and recently by C&L) on new 00-sleeper spacing, bullhead plain track (with turnouts to follow, maybe), will you continue progressing this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted January 27, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2016 Joseph - given the announcement made by Peco at Nuremburg (and recently by C&L) on new 00-sleeper spacing, bullhead plain track (with turnouts to follow, maybe), will you continue progressing this? See link http://www.pecopublications.co.uk/peco-anounces-2016-new-items-programme.html HTH Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 28, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2016 Now Peco have done it with plain track it is up to modellers to put their money where their mouth had been for years and actually buy the stuff. Peco have stated that if the uptake is good then they will produce turnouts. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phatbob Posted January 29, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Joseph - given the announcement made by Peco at Nuremburg (and recently by C&L) on new 00-sleeper spacing, bullhead plain track (with turnouts to follow, maybe), will you continue progressing this? My reading of the thread on the new PECO bullhead track is that it has scale H0 sleepers and sleeper spacing, not 00. So we will still need these points to match SMP or C&L plain track? Edited January 29, 2016 by Phatbob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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