Castle Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Hi All, Standardisation!!!!! One theory is drivers were highly skilled in pulling up in exactly the right spot in relation to water crane position. If all were in the centre with a standard..ish length tender on the larger classes, then the swing of the water crane would remain constant. By having the filler on the outer extremes of the tender, filling up may have not been so easy.Just a thoughtMike Wiltshire Mike - That was my initial though but as I didn’t have confirmation, I didn’t voice the opinion. Is a good theory though! When overhead arms were used for fuel tanker loading in temporary fuel sites, the flexibility of the "sock" on the arm allowed more scope for the tanker driver to get "near enough". So the sock on a water crane would also provide enough "lee-way" to cover single or twin fillers. Tinker - possibly, but the thick leather bag possibly isn’t nearly as flexible as you think. It’s like trying to wrestle a stiff drunken elephant basically. While standing on a barrel or box. About 9 - 10’ in the air... The Didcot ones don’t get anywhere near the use they used to so that may be a factor but it’s not an easy manoeuvre and you don’t have to be that far out for it not to work. Rule of thumb at DRC is to line up the tank filler with the chimney on the fire devil and that gets you where you need to be in most cases. All the best, Castle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted November 1, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2018 Drew, I don't disagree - the Wheaton arms were much the same, especially when it had rained and then the sock was frozen solid, and needed to be wrestled from on top of a tanker. But the flexibility of the hose was such that the positioning did not need to be exact - within 2 feet would do. And flow would have to be gradual at first or else the sock could stiffen up quickly and flick out of the hatch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenrash Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 The point of the photo of the double filler tender is that it was taken in 1934. Approx 7 years after construction. Still not modified. The "Sixsmith" engine record say that the tender no is 2399. This has survived at Didicot. Anybody got a photograph as to how it ended up? Richard A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 The "Sixsmith" engine record say that the tender no is 2399. This has survived at Didicot. Anybody got a photograph as to how it ended up? The Vintage Carriages Trust site says 2399 was heavily rebuilt and was earning a crust behind SVR's 4930 Hagley Hall at one time, but that loco seems to now have acquired a Hawksworth 4000g. The following May 2015 images at Didcot, seemingly of an ex-twin-filler 4000g, are mistakenly included in Brian Daniel's Mogul directory, but I'm not sure what loco they might be currently associated with: https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27742056612/in/album-72157669537628532/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27742042102/in/album-72157669537628532/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27231336223/in/album-72157669537628532/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27231336513/in/album-72157669537628532/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
K14 Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 The following May 2015 images at Didcot, seemingly of an ex-twin-filler 4000g, are mistakenly included in Brian Daniel's Mogul directory, but I'm not sure what loco they might be currently associated with: https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27742056612/in/album-72157669537628532/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27742042102/in/album-72157669537628532/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27231336223/in/album-72157669537628532/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/27231336513/in/album-72157669537628532/ Going by the position of it within the shed (2-road with WTC 5 behind & BPC at the back of 3), I'd hazard a guess at 5900 Hinderton Hall. Trawling through some of the other images it looks like 5322 was parked next to 5900 when the photos were taken. Pete S. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Hi All, Yep - Pete is right, it is Hiderton Hall. Sorry, thought I’d mentioned that! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenrash Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 I have a problem with what "Castle" has written with regard to the round plates bolted the the top deck of the 4000 gal Collett tenders. For this to be correct, that is there would be just 20 of these A113 tenders rebuilds. This just does not concur with the published GA drawings. In Russell Vol 2 there are two G/A drawings of the 4000 gal tenders. The first Drawing 76936 is labeled A113 and is for the twenty tenders with double fillers. There is also a photograph of the top of one of these tender sans the front sand boxes. The second drawing 89790 is labeled Lots A113, A116, A117, A120, A121 and has the single central filler. This implies indeed that A113 tenders were to be amended to conform with this drawing. Martin Finney says Lot A113 - 20 tenders Lot A117 - 47 tenders Lot A120 - 10 tenders Lot A121 - 20 tenders Total 97 This drawing shows the round plates each side of the central filler at least on 77 tenders. If you have a copy of R Guy Williams "The 4mm Engine A Scratchbuilder's Guide" you will have a copy of G/A drawing 92460. This is for Lot A123. This has the "broad framing around the axleboxes". It also shows the round plates bolted each side of the central filler on the tender deck. None of these tenders had double fillers. Now JimC in post # 137, of this thread, says that the drawing register show that there are no more G/A drawings until Hawksworth tenders were built. This would surly mean that all subsequent tenders also had the round plates bolted to the back deck. Also in Russell there is a drawing of the A118 3500 gal tenders. Miss Prisim has posted a copy in post #60 The Russell does not scan well, but you can see the round plates bolted to the back deck. Again none of these tenders had double fillers. So to say that the round plates were covers from the removal of the double fillers is not possible. It is just not tenable. All the best, Richard A 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2018 Just to throw a bit more petrol on the fire: If the A113 fillers were removed and replaced by blanking plates, why are the replacement patches round whilst the original fillers were of a squared box construction? The photos by Brian Daniels do not show the remains of any fixing holes for the original fillers and I very much doubt it they we constructed in such a way so they plugged into circular holes in the tank top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 If the A113 fillers were removed and replaced by blanking plates, why are the replacement patches round whilst the original fillers were of a squared box construction? Yes, I wondered about that too. But those patches must have been put there for some reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted November 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2018 Round holes suffer less with metal fatigue & cracking than square holes, it's what caused the early Comets to crash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted November 16, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2018 The one tender I would love to see done is the only 8 wheeled tender that GWR had on its books. Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted November 16, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2018 Terry, Do you mean this one? Or this one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenrash Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 I do hope everyone has in mind that the double fillers looked like this. Not how the Hornby Dublo model was done. Hornby appeared to have followed the Sir Layland-Barratt or the Roche drawing. Neither are correct to the A113 GA drawing. Richard A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Thanks, Richard. What are the round sticking-up things on either side of the dome? Water overflow pipes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wenrash Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 I think they are only stops for the filler flap to rest on when it is open. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) I think they are only stops for the filler flap to rest on when it is open. Ah yes, that sounds reasonable, to protect the handle on the filler flap. It can be seen in Mike Wiltshire's post of Rood Ashton Hall's tender in: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/113467-would-the-37xx-city-class-have-carried-route-availabilty-discs-and-power-classification-lettering-in-the-late-1920s/?p=2400766 and in Andy M's post of 7820's tender: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60321-severn-valley-railway/?p=2083549 The fixture is not a late preservation mod, and seems to have been fashionable for a while for many Churchward 3500g and Collett 3000g and 4000g tenders. The fixture can to dated back to at least 1930: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/new-king-class-locomotives-belonging-to-the-great-western-news-photo/3327929 Edited November 17, 2018 by Miss Prism Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted November 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2018 The seconded one as it falls into my time period Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 (edited) What is the purpose of the left-most pipe?: http://www.gwr.org.uk/tenders/cot-tender-rear2-small.jpg Edited November 18, 2018 by Miss Prism Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 Hi Miss P, The small pipe is a through air line - I assume this is City of Truro so she would have to be so fitted to operate on the main line in case of failiure and recovery by an air braked locomotive. For those that have issues with the information I posted previously - the patches in the back corners of the 4,000 gallon tenders - my last comment on the matter. They are NOT needed as inspection hatches. The main filler is more than large enough to allow access and the baffles do not prevent you seeing the back corners. I can organise an internal viewing for anyone who I game enough to don a pair of overalls and climb into the tank of No. 5900 if we need to hammer this point home. Swindon didn’t add stuff to tenders like that that had no purpose what so ever. I don’t know what your books say - I don’t have them. What I can do however is that I can lay my hands on a real period tender... I hope this clarifies the point I was making. All the best, Castle 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 CoT needing to be recovered?? Ignominy, infamy, they've all got it infamy... (Thanks Castle, pic caption being upgraded) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted December 5, 2018 Share Posted December 5, 2018 The one tender I would love to see done is the only 8 wheeled tender that GWR had on its books. Terry. let the bidding war commence! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-FALCON-BRASS-OO-GAUGE-GWR-8-WHEEL-LOCOMOTIVE-TENDER-KIT/352534749295?hash=item5214b5606f:g:Q1IAAOSwiqBcBb5E:rk:30:pf:0 Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted December 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2018 Does anyone have a link to the allocation list for the 8 wheel Collett tender? I thought it was on here somewhere but I can't find it.............. Thanks, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 6, 2018 Share Posted December 6, 2018 footnote 4, http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-tenders.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted December 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 6, 2018 let the bidding war commence! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-FALCON-BRASS-OO-GAUGE-GWR-8-WHEEL-LOCOMOTIVE-TENDER-KIT/352534749295?hash=item5214b5606f:g:Q1IAAOSwiqBcBb5E:rk:30:pf:0 Mike Wiltshire Thank you Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted December 13, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2018 let the bidding war commence! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-FALCON-BRASS-OO-GAUGE-GWR-8-WHEEL-LOCOMOTIVE-TENDER-KIT/352534749295?hash=item5214b5606f:g:Q1IAAOSwiqBcBb5E:rk:30:pf:0 Mike Wiltshire Twice the list price for something which (fingers crossed) go back into production............... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now