BigAndy Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hi I asked him before i brought it was it second hand and was told no its brand new, the loco is from the blue ribbon range and when i did open it ,it looked as if it had never been out of the box. It was only when i got home and had a closer look , the wheels had wear makes on both the loco and the tender, when i placed it on my rolling road it failed and jammed up. I know what stand i got it from so will call them in the morning and sort it out, if he can not replace it i will keep it and fix it myself. thank you all for helping me with this. Darren, I don't wish to labour the point, but if they refuse to sort the problem out or won't exchage it, then they are also not sticking to trading standards. Like I said, no need to be rude with them, but you bought the loco in an honest held belief ( because you were told so ) that it was brand new and therefore it hadn't run before. In any event, the loco is fualty regardless of whether it has ever run, and that alone is enough to be expecting a positive resolution. Don't be fobbed off mate! Cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I can symphathise having had a similar experience at one of the model fairs at the Bluebell Railway a few years ago. I was sold a Hornby loco "as new", only to find it had stripped its gears when I got it home. All I can suggest is contacting the organisers at Warley to identify this trader, then asking them to put the matter right. If it was an honest mistake, then I'm sure they'll sort it out. If not, then contact the Warley organisers to ensure that they are never invited again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I think that the stallholder was clearly trying to pull a con trick here. Perhaps it may be worth naming and shaming the stallholder on here to warn all other potential customers who may meet them at other shows! Perhaps the seller should be given his chance to make a reply before anything like that happens. He cold have just made a mistake in his description, thought the box was something else or the like. Not saying that that is the case, but at the moment he has not refused to accept the item back and hasn't been informed that anything is amiss. Let's see how this matter is dealt with before naming and shaming Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I got the 4mt for £49.95 You would have been better off coming to the Southend Show. You could have had a 4MT tank for less. I'm kicking myself for not buying the Bachmann 4575 tank for £33. And it had a decoder in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebor Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 who had that then ivan, can you remember? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 who had that then ivan, can you remember? The crew at the top right of the hall, as viewed from my stand. I think they were next to the artist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob O Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 There is a bit of this going on. Old locos in new boxes! New bodies on old split chassis, Ok if you know what to watch out for but who has not been caught out? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Me.....but I don't model 4mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2013 I know this is closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, but for those who would like to avoid situations such as this, it is best to pop along to a test track. There are always a couple at Warley, and they can test everything from T to Gauge 1. They are nice and friendly and will show up any problem immediately. Sorry, but how does this help? if someone purchased a product and took it away without a receipt (as per OP) & took it straight to a test track, where it failed a test run. The stall holder could deny selling it upon return. Without a receipt, its a case of ones word against another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hi i did ask them if this was a second hand model and was told no it was not, I do know the stand i did get it from,the only thing was it was the last one he had at that price. Interesting comment! The 'last one at that price', suggests that others were available at a different price - presumably higher. That certainly implies that the model you purchased was cheaper for a reason. What reason is the subject of discussion = known to be faulty or old stock? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If it's one of the 4MT 4-6-0s I have known several from the time they were warmed over under the Bachmann brand. The wheel centres have expanded and jammed the coupling rods. At least two of them had never been out of the boxes and could thus be described as new. I also have three B1s from around the same time which have the same problem to varying degrees. As I don't have a home layout they were bought for 'future' club projects so it was only when I decided to sell the 4MTs that I discovered the problem, and checked the B1s as well. It's something you have to look carefully for, I suspect it's down to lubricant affecting the plastic wheel centre. The problem has never appeared on any other Bachmann loco, to my knowledge, or on the 4MTs and B1s sold under the Replica label just before they became Bachmann's own. Whilst not particularly defending the trader, he could be totally unaware of this problem, not all wheels are necessarily affected and it may have been the ones on the underside with the loco in it's box. In the first place the trader should be contacted and allowed the chance to put this right, that should be the first action before rushing to a forum anyway, then if he doesn't is the time to start threads like this. I've been a trader myself and always tried to satisfy a customer, it's not always easy to keep tabs on everything and we can all overlook things or not even be aware there is a problem. If the loco in question is from the time I suspect, it must be around 20 years old, even though possibly unused. Given the known problems with various things, mazak contamination especially, although something is unused it may not now be 'as new' due to deterioration caused by manufacturing defects. I don't know whether Bachmann would accept a warranty claim on something this age either given that they don't, apparently, expect things to last forever. We're not talking about 'bombproof' Hornby Dublo any longer I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirey33 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Good calm words from Mr great central. Since when did RMWeb become a Kangeroo court ? I'm amazed that the people posting on here have already decided the trader is clearly a crook and should be punished. Steps to a resolution...... 1. Contact the trader and tell him what the problem is. 2. If he starts being awkward, remind him that you are a member of a forum which has thousands of members who will soon be aware of his actions. 3. If you still have no luck, then come back here and we can all decided if he should be burned at the stake or tarred and feathered and paraded through the next Warley exhibition; I'm quite keen on a ducking stool myself......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 All new locos should have been run before, on the factory test track which may explain the marks on the wheels if it pretty mucky at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Really? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochnagar Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I bought a Bachmann GBRF class 20 from a trader in the rear left corner of the hall, near the food area. On closer inspection it had a little 'R' on the bottom, indicating that it was a Bachmann return loco. Fair enough I only paid £60 for it, but it looked like new. Bargain price, but I'm guessing that the trader may have picked it up off the returns stand earlier in the day and made a tenner on it. The outer box was in mint condition and had no returns label so the outer sleeve had obviously been swapped. Only fault is that the detail bag is missing and a couple of steps had fell off which I popped back on at the show. Wonder if this is the same trader? Was given to me in a rather posh black boutique style bag with a security company branding on it. No receipt. Nothing I bought from the show had a receipt, and I spent a lot from around 9 traders. I'm not moaning, very happy with the 20. But just thought that if a trader is buying from Bachmann returns and flogging on as new or new secondhand then someone should know about it and may be able to identify them from the black bags provided. . assuming it's the same stand of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 All new locos should have been run before, on the factory test track which may explain the marks on the wheels if it pretty mucky at the time. Maybe in the days of Dublo and Triang, latterly Hornby Margate manufacture, as for stuff made in China, I'm not so sure. Still somewhat irrelevant if that testing took place 20 years ago though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 Interesting comment! The 'last one at that price', suggests that others were available at a different price - presumably higher. That certainly implies that the model you purchased was cheaper for a reason. What reason is the subject of discussion = known to be faulty or old stock? Hi I sorry if i worded it wrong ,It was the only 4MT he had on the stand,there where no other ones on his stand at the show, did seem to be selling a number of his loco on the day at low prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted November 26, 2013 Author Share Posted November 26, 2013 I bought a Bachmann GBRF class 20 from a trader in the rear left corner of the hall, near the food area. On closer inspection it had a little 'R' on the bottom, indicating that it was a Bachmann return loco. Fair enough I only paid £60 for it, but it looked like new. Bargain price, but I'm guessing that the trader may have picked it up off the returns stand earlier in the day and made a tenner on it. The outer box was in mint condition and had no returns label so the outer sleeve had obviously been swapped. Only fault is that the detail bag is missing and a couple of steps had fell off which I popped back on at the show. Wonder if this is the same trader? Was given to me in a rather posh black boutique style bag with a security company branding on it. No receipt. Nothing I bought from the show had a receipt, and I spent a lot from around 9 traders. I'm not moaning, very happy with the 20. But just thought that if a trader is buying from Bachmann returns and flogging on as new or new secondhand then someone should know about it and may be able to identify them from the black bags provided. . assuming it's the same stand of course. HI This was the same trader i brought the 4mt from!. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2013 HI This was the same trader i brought the 4mt from!. If this is indeed the case then Darren this trader needs to be identified to the Warley club - if no further - in order that they can as a minimum review his future attendance at their show and warn others that he is engaging in what appears to be sharp practice. But they must be sure of their ground before taking any action obviously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyram Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Like I suggested earlier, sounds like this trader needs naming to protect us all from similar experiences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Davis Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Can't seem to see the response from the op stating what the retailer said when he contacted him after the show to see what redress, if any, he was prepared to make. I presume he has contacted him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLPG Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Quite shocking. Sounds like someone has hit the Bachmann Stall for some bargains and tried to make a quick few quid. I agree, name and shame. I have been on the receiving end of a few dodgy sellers in the past. Buying at exhibitions, paying cash and having no proof of purchase. I avoid buying second hand models now as a result! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 There is a bit of this going on. Old locos in new boxes! New bodies on old split chassis, Ok if you know what to watch out for but who has not been caught out? I blame the prolific sales of empty boxes on ebay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Quite shocking. Sounds like someone has hit the Bachmann Stall for some bargains and tried to make a quick few quid. I agree, name and shame. I have been on the receiving end of a few dodgy sellers in the past. Buying at exhibitions, paying cash and having no proof of purchase. I avoid buying second hand models now as a result! Surely that is what traders do though, buy at one price resell at a profit. Do we know he bought it from the Bachmann stand? Traders are, I believe, able to buy warehouse clearance items at various times, certainly were when I had a trade account with them. Not just Bachmann either, I had some seriously cheap stuff from one manufacturer, Coaches for about £1 each which I sold on for £5, one of the 'box shifters' was selling the same items for nearly £10!!! In the days of Mainline, I was working as a contractor at one of the Palitoy (Mainline's parent co) warehouses. They were having a clearance sale of their staff shop and I was able to buy a few bits, quite a few actually. Over a period of time I sold them on, way before I started as a true trader, does that make me guilty of sharp practice? I've not been trading for over 10 years now by the way. I'd be very wary of naming and shaming, yes there are sharks out there, but unless you have pretty hard facts and even evidence that anything other than normal trading has taken place, you may open up a real can of worms. There can be just as many dodgy customers, I had something traded in as unused, it certainly looked like it. When I took it out of the box to check it later the front bogie had been broken and bodged together, not very well, with a bit of brass strip and the valve gear was broken. Made it worth half what I'd allowed on it, but such is the nature of things, I took the loss. Imagine the uproar if it had been the other way round, crooked traders, name and shame , etc, etc! Let's see what happens when the trader has been contacted and then perhaps let the management team at Warley club know if there is not a satisfactory outcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 HI I contacted the trader today and explained to him about the faulty loco, Was asked buy the trader was i sure i had brought it from him, Yes, you where stand number **, OK do you have the receipt?, No sorry i was never given one when i brought it from you , sorry nothing i can do!. It's my fault as i should have incited he gave me a receipt in the first place, i have learnt my lesson on this one and never buy anything again without a receipt. I will contact the Warley MRC about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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