GWML Electification

[Siberian Snooper]

Could they be using a similar subterfuge as we used in the dockyard, commission something to claim the milestone and a few days later decommission it and carry on as usual until the job was sorted properly.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Could they be using a similar subterfuge as we used in the dockyard, commission something to claim the milestone and a few days later decommission it and carry on as usual until the job was sorted properly.

 

Yep, we do that all the time to 'meet milestones' or 'achieve key performance indicators' - it keeps the spreadsheet jockeys happy... meanwhile, in the real world we just get on and do the job.

[The Stationmaster]

Could they be using a similar subterfuge as we used in the dockyard, commission something to claim the milestone and a few days later decommission it and carry on as usual until the job was sorted properly.

 

I have wondered about that as some parts of Scours Lane - Milton were officially energised before there was any catenary in place to energise (MainLines were complete but the Reliefs definitely weren't).  And i noticed today that work continues in the Tilehurst area - including one of the extra 25kv conductors seemingly temporarily held in place on a couple of gantries by be being somehow 'roped' to the gantry although already installed (weeks back) on the relevant insulators.

 

Looks as if more catenary has appeared east of Scours Lane (and west of where the Festival Line 'ducks under' the flyover).

[Dava]

As Gerry Fiennes said, what a way to run a railway!

 

WCML electrification projects worked in the 1960-70's and ECML in the 1980's. The GWML 'make it up as you go along' approach has been a complete fiasco which virtually guarantees such a project will not be attempted again on an operational mainline railway - to our cost on the MML. To be fair, the non-electrification civils on MML are going quite well and all that's required is to wire north of Bedford.....

 

Dava

[The Stationmaster]

Presumably it all went well, they've sent out the press release:

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/new-trains-on-the-way-as-thames-valley-electrification-reaches-major-milestone

 

 

Judging by what is on RTT the number of GWR electric trains serving Maidenhead in May is going to be quite limited (there was talk of an increase in July but nothing on RTT for then as yet of course).

 

The most amazing of those showing up at the moment is a morning non-stop train from Maidenhead to Paddington booked to take 31 minutes - although the nett time is only 23.5 minutes (but only 2.5 minutes) are down to pathing.  Another one, shown as a  passenger train, has a 3 minute stop at Old Oak Common on a Reception Line - so maybe there is still some tweaking to be done?

[Christopher125]

There is, I think, a bit of double standards going on with these energisation dates as they seem to come while there are still lots of detail items to get done and that will mean isolations for a lot (all?) of them and that must surely eat into time available for actual work thus extending the time to getting the job finalised.  Regrettably rather typical of the way the whole job has been managed with bits of most stages of work being missing long after subsequent stages or phases have started on the same section.

Why would it extend the time? It seems the wires are treated as live some time before energisation itself (beginning of March in this case IIRC) and as that clearly requires an extended, disruptive possession it needs to be planned in advance even if there are some outstanding issues that need addressing before trains can use them.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Christopher125

[Zomboid]

To work on nominally "live" OLE requires that isolations are taken, which adds time to the process of doing anything.

Any work site would need portable earths applying, which eats into work time - shouldn't be a huge impact, as work also has to be done on OLE which actually supplies trains, and the processes to handle that aren't brand new. It is additional stuff to do during a possession that isn't needed on OLE which is yet to be brought into use.

[Christopher125]

To work on nominally "live" OLE requires that isolations are taken, which adds time to the process of doing anything.

Any work site would need portable earths applying, which eats into work time - shouldn't be a huge impact, as work also has to be done on OLE which actually supplies trains, and the processes to handle that aren't brand new. It is additional stuff to do during a possession that isn't needed on OLE which is yet to be brought into use.

That's my point - as I understand it the wires are treated as live for some time before the actual energisation takes place, so delaying it (and reducing the time available to sort any problems) wouldn't make much sense.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Christopher125

[Geoff Endacott]

That's my point - as I understand it the wires are treated as live for some time before the actual energisation takes place, so delaying it (and reducing the time available to sort any problems) wouldn't make much sense.

 

There are a lot of aspects to this project which don't make much sense.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Geoff Endacott]

Chippenham has its first mast - on the embankment just down from the Western Arches. I shall investigate later to find out if Chippenham has been subject to any further mastication. (That is a word - I looked it up.) Of course, Mr Depot may beat me to it.

 

Geoff Endacott

[HillsideDepot]

Chippenham has its first mast - on the embankment just down from the Western Arches. I shall investigate later to find out if Chippenham has been subject to any further mastication. (That is a word - I looked it up.) Of course, Mr Depot may beat me to it.

 

Geoff Endacott

 

It went up very late on Sunday night, I think. I spotted a likely electrification train showing up on the Open Train Times signalling diagram as being in the section including Chippenham Station, so went out to investigate. There was a works train parked behind Ivy Lane School, all lit up but I couldn't see what it was doing as I drove past. I didn't stop as I was expecting to see something in a more easily viewable position at the station. There was no sign of anything at the station, but it may have been up in the cutting, so I went back to see what I could see near Ivy Lane - the train had gone! I drove parallel to the line the best I could, but didn't see the machine again (but it may have been behind the houses).  

 

They really are illusive - just as when they were piling over Christmas they don't seem to move gradually along the line, mast by mast, but flit about in a section in what appears to the casual observer to be a random fashion. 

 

On Sunday afternoon the gap with no masts was still there between Friday Street and Dauntsey station, but the masts to the west of the gap had reached as far as one on the Down side of Maud Heath's Causeway bridge. Langley Crossing footbridge has now also reopened after its high sides have been made even higher. 

Real Times Trains suggested that the line was open last night, so we might all have to go and stare in wonder at a solitary mast. But, that's one more mast than Corsham will get... 

Edited April 4, 2017 by HillsideDepot

[Geoff Endacott]

I have now seen two masts, so at least the one I saw this morning will not be lonely.

 

I can't afford to spend any more time mast hunting because I have an exhibition to run.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Peter Kazmierczak]

A reminder of more hopeful times, just three short years ago....................

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26609000

[Mike Riley]

A reminder of more hopeful times, just three short years ago....................

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26609000

 

Newbury to Oxford link?  Reinstating the norther end of the DNS railway?

 

And why does an electric train have 20% more seats than a diesel equivalent?

[Geoff Endacott]

And why does an electric train have 20% more seats than a diesel equivalent?

 

Extra space for the technicians who are needed to fix things when they go wrong?

 

Geoff Endacott

[Suzie]

And why does an electric train have 20% more seats than a diesel equivalent?

 

The seats are smaller! It would appear only small people want to travel on electric trains.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Suzie

[jim.snowdon]

Ten cars instead of eight.

 

Jim

[Zomboid]

The longest suburban train formations are going from 6 car 16x trains to 12 car 387s. To only get 20% more seats from that is an achievement of sorts, but the 16x units are 3+2 and the 387s are 2+2, so that combined with the vehicles reducing from 23m to 20m long accounts for it.

In HST/IEP terms, 8x 23m is becoming 9x 26m - not sure if 2x 5 car 800 has more or less seating than a 9 car, the duplication of cabs and things will eat into the space available for passengers.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Zomboid

[HillsideDepot]

A little more mast hunting whilst on the direct route between Chippenham's two DIY "sheds" (neither of which had what I went out for).

 

The mast spotted by Geoff has a neighbour, possibly two. These are just west of Chippenham Viaduct (the Western Arches to locals). There are then 3 big masts (the ones they fit long arms to for both lines) west of Lowden Arch (the one I used for the model bridge on my Mortimore's Yard* layout) and then one single "normal" mast after a gap beyond the three. There is then nothing to Thingley East Junction, which was as far as I could see. All the masts so far are planted on the Down side.

 

 

* for the avoidance of doubt Mortimore's Yard is not getting overhead electrification; DCC through the rails works fine.

[Northroader]

Today I went up the Gloucester Birmingham line, which I haven't done for some months, the last time being just after the new platforms and loops were opened at Bromsgrove.(town of population under 30,000) I then noticed electrification was being extended there from Barnt Green, and progressing very nicely. A base had been set up near the top of Lickey incline, stores yard, accommodation, parking and so on, and a ramp placed so that a fleet of road rail machines could access the tracks and spread out to work. Most of the bases were in, a good lot of masts, signalling channels worked on, and the overbridges rebuilt. It would appear that the same type of wire supports as the rest of that system, involving head spans, although so far the masts were bare. OK, it's only a five and a half mile job, but it looked as if the people doing it knew what they were at.

Coming back, I routed through Oxford to Didcot, so had a look at how the downside was doing on this stretch, and I don't think anything has changed for about a year since I last saw it. I couldn't see anything north of Kennington junction, between there and Radley well over half the mast bases are done. South of Radley bases are fewer and intermittent in the way that is typical of this job. There's a funny little cluster of masts and portals around the rubbish siding entrance at Didcot north junction, then nothing in the yard down to the station, and bases along the avoiding line. Oxford to Didcot about ten miles? There's a new electrification scheme coming out from London, but if you're in Oxford (city of 150,000 population and very popular tourist destination) you can forget about nice new emus anytime soon.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Northroader

[Zomboid]

Not sure it's really appropriate to compare the two.

Didcot to Oxford is one of the deferred sections, so don't expect to see much happening there until after wires get to Cardiff.

[Geoff Endacott]

I can now see two masts from my bedroom window (about two miles away to the east of the town.) I also noticed today that one of the ones I saw yesterday is visible from Chippenham High Street. I think it might have been erected as a public relations exercise to indicate to the people of Chippenham that the project is making (slow) progress.

 

Geoff Endacott

[Mark_A]

Platform and track works to Bath Spa Station underway today.

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

Newport to Cardiff this morning. Masts still very hit and miss at the Newport end, with rarely more than six successive masts. Towards Cardiff most foundation with masts lying beside them ready to install, and as far as I could see not too many gaps.

Still plenty of bridges to finish and a couple not started. Two completely new ones being built out in the country - or at least replacements for ones which have been completely cleared away

Jonathan

[lmsforever]

What a way to electrify a railway when you think how one train did the lot with blokes on the roof pulling the wire and clipping things together did it way back when reason ruled over young men from uni who don't know how to actually do the job.