GWML Electification

[HillsideDepot]

I've not watched the Public Accounts Committee session (timely reminder to do so), but yes, Thingley Junction will be electrified in this Control Period.

 

Work is on-going at the moment, with piles as far west as the Langley Burrell area (according to the plan, I've not been to look). Thingley East to Chippenham is scheduled for piling work over night on December 24/25/26, and NR have been holding a number of public information sessions in Chippenham explaining the works. There is a National Grid feeder station at Thingley (built partly on the old Air Ministry Sidings) which, I assume, is why the works end at Thingley.

 

I know the class 800s are designed to switch modes on the move, but I wonder if they will do that at Thingley, or whether it will be done during the Chippenham station stop. Or will it even be different in each direction? I could see they'd want an electric departure westbound before switching to diesel 2 miles on at Thingley, but remain on diesel eastbound so the driver isn't switching roughly where they start braking (not that I know how the power switch adds to the driver's work load as he concentrates on stopping at a station). Time will tell, but I know it won't be as interesting to watch as the switch from AL-whatever to class 50 used to be on the WCML...

[phil-b259]

Finally got round to watching the Public Accounts Committee session on GW Electrification - as mentioned by Apollo above.

Really interesting and worth a look - if you like that sort of thing.

 

They mentioned Thingley Jn a number of times, indicating that electrification from Thingley - Bath - Bristol TM - Bristol Parkway would be deferred until the next Control Period.

 

Does this mean that the Wootton Bassett Jn - Thingley Jn has/will be electrified in this Control Period?

Or are they mixing-up Thingley with Wootton Bassett?

 

Thingley Junction is home to one of the connection points to the national grid and is essential to the wider scheme - including the Wootton Bassett to Parkway section (otherwise an alternative feeder point would need to be built somewhere else). Given the necessary substation has already been built (on time and in budget) at Thingley, providing an alternative is a complication and waste if money the GWML project doesn't need. Thus the wires will indeed run as far as Thingley with the trains switching to diesel mode west of there.

[Zomboid]

The lead time and cost of a national grid connection is such that without connecting to Thingley it would be several more years and lots of millions of pounds before it would be possible to energise west of about Swindon.

[HillsideDepot]

It's not just that the sub-station is already built at Thingley, that is also the closest point to the National Grid installation at Beanacre (next to the Melksham line) which provides the feed.

The work to lay cables 3.25 miles from Beanacre across the fields and a few minor roads to Thingley took almost a year to complete, so a sizeable project in itself. Continuing to the South Wales Main Line is adds 7.75 miles to that, plus the need to cross two A roads and the M4.

[mow]

Someone getting the excuses in early.

 

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/electrification-works-delay-due-to-lost-skills/10015907.article

 

Make of it what you will.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

 

At least they won't be going back to the Broad Gauge days of a half-hour stop for refreshments at Swindon. Had visions of changing over from AC to diesel at an extended stop in fields in the middle of nowhere.

[Northroader]

No, just getting out at Hay Lane, now M4 junction 16, and continuing to Bath in a diesel stagecoach.

[Metr0Land]

An interesting video this, showing the 387 drag including the coupling procedure at Paddington.

 

 

Err it's not the first AC only unit at Reading.  A Eurostar set was parked on the avoiding lines over Xmas 1993 (or possibly 92 - I can't find the details at the mo')

Edited December 21, 2016 by Metr0Land

[talisman56]

Err it's not the first AC only unit at Reading.  A Eurostar set was parked on the avoiding lines over Xmas 1993 (or possibly 92 - I can't find the details at the mo')

 

Weren't the Eurostar sets DC as well?

[Metr0Land]

Oops my mistake

[Zomboid]

More to the point, aren't 387s dual voltage?

[The Stationmaster]

More to the point, aren't 387s dual voltage?

 

I don't know to what extent the dc kit is fitted on the GWR sets but the design is also dc capable as I understand it.

I've not watched the Public Accounts Committee session (timely reminder to do so), but yes, Thingley Junction will be electrified in this Control Period.

 

Work is on-going at the moment, with piles as far west as the Langley Burrell area (according to the plan, I've not been to look). Thingley East to Chippenham is scheduled for piling work over night on December 24/25/26, and NR have been holding a number of public information sessions in Chippenham explaining the works. There is a National Grid feeder station at Thingley (built partly on the old Air Ministry Sidings) which, I assume, is why the works end at Thingley.

 

I know the class 800s are designed to switch modes on the move, but I wonder if they will do that at Thingley, or whether it will be done during the Chippenham station stop. Or will it even be different in each direction? I could see they'd want an electric departure westbound before switching to diesel 2 miles on at Thingley, but remain on diesel eastbound so the driver isn't switching roughly where they start braking (not that I know how the power switch adds to the driver's work load as he concentrates on stopping at a station). Time will tell, but I know it won't be as interesting to watch as the switch from AL-whatever to class 50 used to be on the WCML...

 

The workload shouldn't be excessive although that obviously depends on how it is done.  Eurostar changeovers are made at far higher speeds than we'll ever see at Thingley Jcn and have generally seemingly been trouble free (there were a couple of incidents but in effect they confirmed the risk assessment numbers.  The main problem is not so much a station stop (think HS1/CTRL changing over while in the process of slowing for an Ashford stop - far more complex than this will be I would think) but the possible impact on reacting to signal aspects and whatever sort of vigilance control is used.

 

But even then I really can't see it being a process that is likely to cause problems unless the design is poor - and that ought not to be the case.  In any event it will have to be risk assessed and hopefully those doing that will know what they're at.

[Zomboid]

387s are DC equipped - it took me seconds to find a video of some dark green units on test at Brighton, and all the photos I've seen have the wooden beams for the shoegear.

[St. Simon]

More to the point, aren't 387s dual voltage?

  

I don't know to what extent the dc kit is fitted on the GWR sets but the design is also dc capable as I understand it.

Hi,

 

They have been tested on the Brighton mainline, so they are defiantly DC capable!

 

I believe the electrostar's are designed with 750v DC traction motors, with the AC supply when running over OLE being fed through a transformer rectifier to get it to the motor, whilst when on third rail, the power is fed directly to the motor.

 

For GWR, the third rail shoes are fitted, but lifted and tied (or locked or something) up out of use.

 

Simon

[Zomboid]

Modern EMUs are 3 phase drive, so on AC they have a transformer, a rectifier and then a 3 phase inverter (with all kinds of clever power electronics to provide a variable frequency output).

On DC the line is connected to the inverter.

[royaloak]

Someone getting the excuses in early.

 

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/electrification-works-delay-due-to-lost-skills/10015907.article

 

Make of it what you will.

They are not wrong though, thats the biggest problem with this famine and feast routine, all your skilled workers either off abroad or retrain when the famine happens, come feast time there are no qualified engineers.

 

Now if we had a sensible,long term timetable for electrifying lots of lines then the workforce would just move around from one job to the next meaning your staffing wouldnt be a problem.

 

But of course that isnt how we do it in this Country is it!

[Budgie]

At least they won't be going back to the Broad Gauge days of a half-hour stop for refreshments at Swindon. Had visions of changing over from AC to diesel at an extended stop in fields in the middle of nowhere.

Thank goodness for that. According to the last report I read on the Swindon refreshment rooms, the coffee was absolutely awful.

[jamie92208]

Hi,

 

They have been tested on the Brighton mainline, so they are defiantly DC capable!

 

I believe the electrostar's are designed with 750v DC traction motors, with the AC supply when running over OLE being fed through a transformer rectifier to get it to the motor, whilst when on third rail, the power is fed directly to the motor.

 

For GWR, the third rail shoes are fitted, but lifted and tied (or locked or something) up out of use.

 

Simon

IIRC the units are all being built a dual voltage and must have the equipment fitted and tested to get certification as such. They can then be moved on to DC routes without major re certification issues. I believe that this increases their value to the leasing companies and thus I think reduces leasing costs. But as mentioned above they shoes themselves are strapped up in the raised position.

 

Jamie

[DY444]

IIRC the units are all being built a dual voltage and must have the equipment fitted and tested to get certification as such. They can then be moved on to DC routes without major re certification issues. I believe that this increases their value to the leasing companies and thus I think reduces leasing costs. But as mentioned above they shoes themselves are strapped up in the raised position.

 

Jamie

 

All that's been done on the GW sets is that the cab controls to select DC operation have been disconnected. 

[corneliuslundie]

Just stated on the Radio 3 8.00 news that Paddington will be closed for several days over the Christmas holiday "to allow Crossrail to be completed".

If only.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year (unless you are travelling by rail bus.

Jonathan

[caradoc]

Perhaps we could spare a thought for those working over the holidays, on the railway and of course elsewhere. For me personally this is this the first time in 30 years that I've not been working for the railway either over Christmas or New Year (or frequently both). Whatever we think of the management of projects like Crossrail and the GW electrification, they demand a huge amount from those involved on the ground.

[Platform 1]

...spare a thought for those working over the holidays...

 

Seems NR has also thought of that...

 

 

Edited December 24, 2016 by Platform 1

[caradoc]

Thanks for posting Tony. Perhaps the BBC could use this on their breakfast programme instead of the doom and gloom reporting of disruption, delays and cancellations, which is today's lead news item, even preceding Carrie Fisher's heart attack (it must be a slow news day). Anyone would think Network Rail had just decided yesterday to do major work over Christmas, and that there are no alternative routes available; No mention on the BBC for example that although Paddington is shut for 6 days, there are services running from Ealing Broadway, which can be reached by Underground.

[jamie92208]

Seems NR has also thought of that...

 

Thanks for posting that it's a very good video.

 

Jamie

[The Stationmaster]

Great video but interesting that it seems to have taken a lot of folk a long time to wake up to how many in the railway industry, and its contractors, are hard at work over the Christmas period and have been for many years (and some of us used to have to do it for no extra pay at all and all you got was a day in lieu).  No, I'm not moan ing because to us it was simply part of the job - just like many other jobs where folk have to work at Christmas and other Bank Holidays (although Christmas is the worst one for those with families).