Dogmatix Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Hello, I am looking for good point motors for my Peco Code 75 points. The motors will be mounted under the baseboard, must have slow motion (i.e. motor driven rather than solenoid), be quiet in operation, and have a single pole two way switch for frog polarity switching. The points still have springs, but these are easily removed if need be. I have tried Bemo and Hoffmann motors, and found them rather loud. Does anyone have any recommendations? Does anyone have good experience with Tortoise motors? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Digital Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Hello, I am looking for good point motors for my Peco Code 75 points. The motors will be mounted under the baseboard, must have slow motion (i.e. motor driven rather than solenoid), be quiet in operation, and have a single pole two way switch for frog polarity switching. The points still have springs, but these are easily removed if need be. I have tried Bemo and Hoffmann motors, and found them rather loud. Does anyone have any recommendations? Does anyone have good experience with Tortoise motors? I use Tortoise motors on my "O" gauge Peco points and so far they have proved very reliable. I did however replace the operating wire with a stronger one. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2010 I am looking for good point motors for my Peco Code 75 points. The motors will be mounted under the baseboard, must have slow motion (i.e. motor driven rather than solenoid), be quiet in operation, and have a single pole two way switch for frog polarity switching. The points still have springs, but these are easily removed if need be. I have tried Bemo and Hoffmann motors, and found them rather loud. Does anyone have any recommendations? Does anyone have good experience with Tortoise motors? I have 18 Tortoises fitted to Peco Code 83 points, in use for several years now, and I expect to add Tortoises to my 2010 Challenge layout, which will use Code 75. The Tortoise does what it says on the tin, and also has quite a lot of adjustment. I haven't needed to replace the supplied wire linkage to date, but doing so probably adds power and reliability. If you have any crossovers, it is very nice to run one Tortoise off the changeover contacts of the other, so the points actually change in sequence - much more like the real thing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted January 18, 2010 Author Share Posted January 18, 2010 Do you run your Tortoises on DC via a reversing switch, or on AC via a single-pole changeover switch and diodes? I like that cascaded switching idea, I'll have to try that! After all, the Tortoise has two changeover switches, doesn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Tortoise every time, reliable, quiet, easy to install, easy to wire-up - there is nothing that compares. Lots of topics on RMWeb about them, their correct installation and how good they are. A search will bring up many photos and further information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2010 Do you run your Tortoises on DC via a reversing switch, or on AC via a single-pole changeover switch and diodes? I like that cascaded switching idea, I'll have to try that! After all, the Tortoise has two changeover switches, doesn't it? AC with diodes sounds like hard work to me! Tortoises use very little amperage, so a transformer stolen from a failed product like an answerphone, typically putting out 9-12v DC at half an amp, is easily sufficient for a dozen or more Tortoises - as long as you don't throw them all at once! I use simple 2-pole Maplin changeover switches, ones without the centre-off are best, as Tortoises relish being powered all the time - mine have been under power now for more than three years. Yes, the Tortoise has multiple contacts, so you have to be a really keen electronic geek to run out of options! You might find the links on this page useful. http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/tortoise/index.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Ian's link to Tony's is worth a look. Also see the manufacturers website....Circuitron - Tortoise page Hoffman, Conrad, Tillig, Fulgurex........ Tortoise are the ones to go for. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 AC with diodes sounds like hard work to me! They may sound it to you but you should give it a try - it is incredibly simple to wire up - especially with the added option of direction diodes. Just a simple 1 pole change over switch, only one wire for each point from the panel to the layout and a single common return for all points. It just cannot get any simpler. Each Tortoise comes with a diagram on how to do it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 18, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2010 They may sound it to you but you should give it a try - it is incredibly simple to wire up - especially with the added option of direction diodes. Just a simple 1 pole change over switch, only one wire for each point from the panel to the layout and a single common return for all points. It just cannot get any simpler. Each Tortoise comes with a diagram on how to do it. I'm sure it works just fine. I don't have a panel as my layout is walkaround, with strategically placed throttle sockets, although the IR works most of the time. Thus I have a DC bus from which I take power adjacent to each pair of points, with a local switch on the fascia, although some of these are grouped where trackwork is complex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted January 20, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2010 We use tortoise on most of our club layouts but we have had a lot of problems recently with wear on the switch wiper tracks, we are almost certainly going servo actuation for the next club layout. It also works out cheaper! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 We use tortoise on most of our club layouts but we have had a lot of problems recently with wear on the switch wiper tracks..... That's interesting, I've read a lot about their durability and how they're supposed to last for many years. Are the motors in question the earlier type before they modified the switches? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 Thank you all for all your advice. Seeing that Tortoises seem to be quire popular, I bought a couple to experiment with from the only shop in town that sells them. That shop charges 16.50 euros each, so in future I'll order dozenwise from the UK or even directly from the USA. If I like them, that is. They are quite... what is the word... BIG. Somehow, from the pictures, I though they were a little less chunky. But at first guess, they should still fit side-by-side under a pair of parallel Peco points. I had a quick play using a PP3 battery and a couple of croc clip wires, and they do run nice and quietly, even when pressed against the baseboard. I hope to get around to fitting them properly at the weekend. Do you solder your connections to the PCB, or do you use an edge connector? Any tips for above-board mounting (behind scenery), pref. lying down? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 We use tortoise on most of our club layouts but we have had a lot of problems recently with wear on the switch wiper tracks, we are almost certainly going servo actuation for the next club layout. It also works out cheaper! Nothing lasts forever - you must have had many 100's of hours use out of them to wear them out. There is a remedy to it - something to do with copper tape - but if they are relatively new I would just claim o the lifetime guarantee. Servos are undeniably cheaper - but they are a real faff to set up and make operational (in my limited experience) They are certainly nowhere near as simple to install and adjust. But if you want really cheap then I guess you put up with the additional labour/time/hassle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 They are quite... what is the word... BIG. Probably the only disadvantage - but if you have depth in your baseboard frame .. they should still fit side-by-side under a pair of parallel Peco points. Yes, even the short points and the 3 ways and the slips. You may need to arrange them to face each other - remembering to swap motor terminals. Remember on facing crossings where both points MUST operate together it is quite simple to crank the second point off the first one and get away with a single tortoise. Use the spare switch on the Tortoise for the other points frog polarity switch. But if doing this do remember to keep the over center spring in the second point - the cranked point of the pair will not have the actuator wire pressure to keep the check rail firmly against the stock rail. Do you solder your connections to the PCB, or do you use an edge connector? Solder - then take the wires to a connector block. The edge connector is not that reliable and can be knocked loose. It is unnecessary additional expense and adds even more to the required baseboard frame depth. Any tips for above-board mounting (behind scenery), pref. lying down? They can be used lying down and remote (above or below) There is an adapter available - but not really needed. use a 90' bend in the actuator wire and drive a standard cranked wire-in-tube type of arrangement to the point tie bar. A similar arrangement can be used for signals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold LH&JC Posted January 21, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2010 For my Growmont layout which may qualify for the 2010 challenge (I must check ) I am either going to use Tortoise motors or make my own mechanical arrengement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted January 21, 2010 Author Share Posted January 21, 2010 I noticed that the Tortoise mentions a US patent number on the label, so I looked it up. US4695016 "Slow Motion Actuating Device" was filed on 29/08/1985 by Stephen A. Worack, and granted on 22/09/1987. It is an interesting document, with interior diagrams and a functional description (in American, of course). Link here. Talking of patents, and risking going a teens-weensy bit off topic here, it is very cold outside as I write this. In fact, I would suggest that the exterior ambient temperature has declined sufficiently to cause spherical objects to become detached from a copper-zinc-alloy simian. "Do what?" I hear you say. See here for a patent of a model which demonstrates this affect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 We use tortoise on most of our club layouts but we have had a lot of problems recently with wear on the switch wiper tracks, we are almost certainly going servo actuation for the next club layout. It also works out cheaper! We have microswitches bolted to the front of the Tortoise motors in the club to get around this. A couple had black marks on the tracks but some were of the older board design. I've bought a couple of servos to try but haven't wired them up with some switches as yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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