RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2013 Recently, I voted it the term "Modern Image" into the depths of Room 101. It's a misleading description that is often used to encompass anything post-1955 that doesn't have a chimney on it. As the diesel age has been well upon us for nearly 60 years, surely the time has come to move on? The recent DEMU magazine "Update" carries a piece by fellow modeller Clive Mortimore appealing for the banishment of the phrase "modern image" and prompting a discussion there and on the DEMU forum. However, as diesel and electric modellers, we already use terms such as "transition era" for steam/diesel, 1960's, "BR blue" for the Corporate 1970's, "Sectorisation" for 1980's,"post-privatisation" for the mid 1990's and beyond, so debating the issue there is like preaching to the converted. We already have "pre-war LMS", "pre-grouping NER", for examples that are quite convenient, so what can we do to make the various diesel (and electric) eras more defined? PLEASE NOTE: this is not a place to air the diesel v steam debate. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) To be honest I rarely see the phrase in use nowadays (but I don't read any magazines so it may still be used there). When it does crop up it is normally a short sighted view such as "...that exhibition had too many modern image layouts for my liking". This remark can be left in the pile of "...too many steam era layouts" or "...too many branch line termini". All these statements bear too much relevance to the type of trains on a layout and not enough to the skills shown by the modeller in their particular field whether it be scenery, rolling stock or smoothness of running. I would guess that "modern image" is not being used anyone under the age of 40 as they already know that not all diesels and electrics can be grouped under one title. However, just as some people insist on degrading all steam locomotives as kettles there will remain people who wish to group anything after 1968 as modern image. For both these statements it is the individual's choice but to me it merely accentuates their ignorance. Edited November 16, 2013 by Flood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted November 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) Before we banish "Modern Image" - we need a substitute, how about the following? 1950s Modernisation Plan diesels 1960s Transition Era 1970s Rail Blue 1980s Sectorisation 1990s Early Privatisation 2000s First Franchise 2010s Second Franchise? On the other hand - lets just give the decade! Please let's not adopt the ambiguous "Epochs" used for Continental models! Edited November 16, 2013 by Welly 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizontal Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) Brilliant idea - Just the period then the subject - e.g. '1960s Woodhead' or 'Present Day North-West Australia' - 'Says it all! Just get rid of that misleading and condescending term 'Modern Image' :-) Edited November 16, 2013 by Horizontal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) I'm just the right age to have grown up with the phrase "Modern Image" used to describe any layout in Railway Modeller, MRC etc that didn't exclusively feature kettles. Familiarity breeds contempt, as they say, and I find myself using the term often. To me "Modern Image" describes a layout featuring green or blue diesels and "Contemporary" is a phrase I've taken to mean anything post-privatisation with their bright play school vinyl graphics. My ignorance has now been well and truly accentuated... Edited November 16, 2013 by Pete_S 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tase Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I quite like using something like Sectorisation, Privatisation and present day. Do we need to get anymore complicated? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I vote for Transition Blue diesel Sectorisation Early Privatisation Privatisation first and second are blurred as they did not all end and start at the same time and the east coast main line has had several. Modern image could be used for the last 5yrs and would roll forward each year. To me modern image is Privatised railway scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 16, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2013 Modern image could be used for the last 5yrs and would roll forward each year. To me modern image is Privatised railway scene. The plan is to drop "modern image". I prefer "contemporary" as in the last few years to present. Remembering of course that at one time BR blue was contemporary! Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2013 All terms have their day. ISTR an architectural style called "moderne", popular between the wars. Art Nouveau is now anything but. Modern Image to me is Cyril Freezer talking about new station buildings and infrastructure on WCML as the overhead wires moved south. As such it has a very clear time-frame - early '60s. Leave it there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
corax67 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Maybe it's time to adopt a system similar to the European modellers Epoch classification - this will then give scope for further Epochs to be added as the railway develops with time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 The plan is to drop "modern image". I prefer "contemporary" as in the last few years to present. Remembering of course that at one time BR blue was contemporary! Cheers, Mick I don't think you can have a plan for what other people say. You are free not to use a term if you don't like it, and to use something else. That's your personal choice . But others are free to use the terms they wish. It strikes me this thread is not about what terms those posting use but is intended as a message to others as to what you think those others should say, or be allowed to say..... " Post-privatisation seems a conveniently clear and precise term for the post BR era , and it seems to have a pretty wide currency . It would be fair comment to say that "modern image" is associated with BR - it referred to the Corporate Image launched in the mid 60s - and therefore models of the privatised railway are not "modern image" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 All terms have their day. ISTR an architectural style called "moderne", popular between the wars. Art Nouveau is now anything but. Modern Image to me is Cyril Freezer talking about new station buildings and infrastructure on WCML as the overhead wires moved south. As such it has a very clear time-frame - early '60s. Leave it there. If that's the case, given that we are now seeing many classic GWR features being swept away as the wires move westwards, maybe the term should be reintroduced! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 16, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) I don't think you can have a plan for what other people say. You are free not to use a term if you don't like it, and to use something else. That's your personal choice . But others are free to use the terms they wish. It strikes me this thread is not about what terms those posting use but is intended as a message to others as to what you think those others should say, or be allowed to say..... " Not at all - if that's the way it's come across, then I apologise. As Horizontal mentioned above (and also in my first post), it's a misleading description. Cheers, Mick Edited November 16, 2013 by newbryford 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve1 Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Let's dump the term completely. It's meaningless anyway these days. D&E (Diesel & Electric) does the job much better. steve 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 16, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2013 Let's dump the term completely. It's meaningless anyway these days. D&E (Diesel & Electric) does the job much better. steve But I'm just about to start hacking a Hornby Tornado.................. there goes my membership to DEMU! Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 16, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2013 Let's dump the term completely. It's meaningless anyway these days. D&E (Diesel & Electric) does the job much better. But D&E covers a period of not less than 45 years and counting. Within that broad term are several clearly different eras, including BR blue, Sectors and Post-privatisation. Indistinct, I suggest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I say I model the steam era, an all-enveloping phrase that covers 1830s to 1968. If pressed I add the mid-1950s. Seemples! If a bloke says he is 'modern image', is it so hard to ask him what period? It is pointless RMweb members unilaterally attempting to change things..... How do they plan to inform the rest of the universe who have never even heard of this place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 16, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) It would be fair comment to say that "modern image" is associated with BR - it referred to the Corporate Image launched in the mid 60s - and therefore models of the privatised railway are not "modern image" I completely agree with you, but there is still a perception that most diesel (and electric) layouts are "modern image" and this simply isn't the case. As Ian says above "modern image" is an era in it's own right. Cheers, Mick Edited November 16, 2013 by newbryford Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I completely agree with you, but there is still a perception that every diesel layout is "modern image" and this simply isn't the case. As Ian says above "modern image" is an era in it's own right. Cheers, Mick What about electric layouts? Shildon-Newport anyone? Tyneside electrics (someone needs to build and use those nice Judith Edge etched kits for EB1 and EF1) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 The plan is to drop "modern image". I prefer "contemporary" as in the last few years to present. Remembering of course that at one time BR blue was contemporary! Cheers, Mick Hi Mick I agree contemporary would be a better phrase, but has a similar issue and could miss lead. today's, modern, contemporary, current scene are all restrictive and can be misleading in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 16, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2013 What about electric layouts? Post duly edited! Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) If we want to say anything, then all that is needed is the time and place. Thus: Mid 1930s WCML = some remaining LNWR classes, Fowler LMS and new Stanier types Late 1960s South Wales = mixture of diesel electrics and hydraulics Early 1980s ECML = Deltics and blue/grey HSTs Edited November 16, 2013 by Western Sunset Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 (edited) The problem with vague descriptive words like 'contemporary' is that they lose their relevance. What is contemporary now no longer is in 10-20 years' time. As others have mentioned, epochs (or eras as Bachmann refers) may be more useful as they may be defined by a range of years. Edited November 16, 2013 by truffy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie.dunn Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 I am only 17 and I have just started to get into railway modelling but right from the beginning i have wanted to do a Preserved railway line I love steam locomotives but I have grown up With diesel Locos (ok mostly 158s and 185 being on the scarborough - york line) but I have gone for the Best of both worlds so to speak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Wartime Peacetime Space age TOPS i'll stop now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now