James90012 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Just a quicky, Has anybody used these motors? They seem like a cheap alternative to Modeltorque, are they compatible with most Lima locos?If they are good, they seem like an absolute bargainhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Susumotor-Lima-motor-replacement-motor-for-the-Pancake-motor-/261312226670?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3cd76c256e Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 8, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 8, 2013 Just a quicky, Has anybody used these motors? They seem like a cheap alternative to Modeltorque, are they compatible with most Lima locos? If they are good, they seem like an absolute bargain http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Susumotor-Lima-motor-replacement-motor-for-the-Pancake-motor-/261312226670?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3cd76c256e Might be the only alternative to ModelTorque, since the passing of the owner.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 There was another alternative that used the same type of motor but came on a mounting plate, similar to the modeltorque product. I got a few of these ones and they seemed quite good. Cant remember the name though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 They're basically just cd/dvd drive spindle motors. There is a few online tutorials about using them to remotor Hornby/lima bogies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 They're basically just cd/dvd drive spindle motors. There is a few online tutorials about using them to remotor Hornby/lima bogies. I have looked on line and cant actually find any tutorials! Do you have a link to one? I have a couple of Lima Pancakes that I would like to improve, and am about to decommission two old PCs, so might dismantle the CD drives and remove the motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Another souce for LIMA remotoring kits is:- http://www.diesel-trains.co.uk Edited November 10, 2013 by HSB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Hi here is one link for the Hornby ringfield. http://web.onetel.net.uk/~johndent/ringfield.html Read here to http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42689&p=522934#p522934 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Dave, thanks for the links. I have now 'harvested' the motors out of the old CD drives and have two of the sort on the first link, and also another can motor, which looks interesting. I have tried a quick look to see how easily it will fit into a Hornby Ringfield, as I have a spare casing in my spares box. There are two obvious obstacles to fitting one of these. As John Dent says, the casing needs to be drilled out to allow the CD motor to fit. The existing hole is about 5mm diameter and needs to be drilled out to 6.3mm (1/4 inch) diameter. The second obstacle is that there is a lug in the casing which prevents the CD motor from fitting snug & square into the motor casing. The lug was there to ensure correct fitting and location of the original magnet. I have (hopefully) attached a picture of the casing with a red circle around the lug. The solution to this is either to grind the lug away, or build up other parts of the casing to the same height. I haven't decided which option to try yet. I have also taken and uploaded a photo of the second motor (only one of the CD drives had this type). It was the motor which drives the read/write head back and forth over the CD. It runs nicely with a 9V battery across it. I might try it as an X03/4 type alternative. It already has a plastic housing which will help mounting it in a loco. I hope to have a look at the Lima re-motoring tomorrow at a club night, as the club has a better selection of tools than I have at home! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I would either grind off the lug or use a washer to raise the height. Neither should too difficult. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron14xx Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Would one of these motors:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Susumotor-Lima-motor-replacement-motor-for-the-Pancake-motor-/261312226670?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3cd76c256e fit inside a Lima C38? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 I would either grind off the lug or use a washer to raise the height. Neither should too difficult. I have now ground the lug off, and a friend had a 1/4 inch reamer, so the 5mm hole is now the correct 6.3mm size, and the collar of a Susumotor fits nice and snugly. The next problem is that the motor shaft diameter is approx 2mm and the Ringfield spur gear is 2.5mm, so I either need to build up the 2mm to 2.5mm or fill the spur gear hole with either glue or solder and then drill it back out again to 2mm. I made an attempt at increasing the motor shaft diameter, but it didnt work, so it will have to be the latter option of filling the spur gear hole and redrilling, unless anyone has a better suggestion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 The earlier Ringfield motors had brass gears I got a couple of spares from East Kent Models with the intention of filling them with solder and drilling them on a lathe for a similar project, just haven't got around to doing it yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 so it will have to be the latter option of filling the spur gear hole and redrilling, unless anyone has a better suggestion?Not the best solution. drilling a straight and accurate hole will be very difficult (I'd even say near impossible) to do by hand. I would have another go at increasing the shaft diameter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 They're basically just cd/dvd drive spindle motors. There is a few online tutorials about using them to remotor Hornby/lima bogies. Put one in a rewheeled ex-Lima Cl.40 bogie. Not bad, but didn't strike me as being noticeably stronger than the Lima original. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 Not the best solution. drilling a straight and accurate hole will be very difficult (I'd even say near impossible) to do by hand. I would have another go at increasing the shaft diameter I have had a go at increasing the shaft diameter with glue and allowing it to harden, but as soon as I try to fit the gear, the glue just comes away - I have tried a couple of types of glue. Any other thoughts on how to increase the diameter? Put one in a rewheeled ex-Lima Cl.40 bogie. Not bad, but didn't strike me as being noticeably stronger than the Lima original. From my own perspective, I am not after a strong pulling motor, as my intention is to power a Lima 117 DMU power car converted to a 121 railcar, so I dont need brute force!. What I am hoping to improve is the smooth running. I have now managed to get some Lima-compatible gears, and have fitted one of the Susumotors into the Pancake, and it seems to run OK on the bench. Will try it out at my local club on Thursday as I dont have a layout of my own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 I have now managed to get some Lima-compatible gears, Where did you manage to find the gears? Those motors don't seem to be any more powerful but they do improve the slow starting and speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Where did you manage to find the gears? I contacted the guy in Finland who is selling the motors including gears on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261335739987?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649), and asked him if he could supply just the gears. He could, so I bought 5 off him. They are plastic gears, unlike the Hornby Ringfield brass ones, so I dont know how robust they will be. I did also dismantle a failed Lima armature to get the gears, but have the same problem as in the Ringfields in that the gear internal diameter is larger than the motor shaft, so needs some work to get it to fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 ....Any other thoughts on how to increase the diameter? Is it not possible to use a brass sleeve? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 A brass sleeve is worth a try. I would guess that the chance of buying a suitable sleeve (1.5mm ID, 2.4mm OD) is about non-existent, so the best bet would be to take some brass sheet and try to make a sleeve. I will have to see if I have any suitable sheet at home this evening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I have had a go at increasing the shaft diameter with glue and allowing it to harden, but as soon as I try to fit the gear, the glue just comes away - I have tried a couple of types of glue. Any other thoughts on how to increase the diameter? No surprise with that method. The shaft requires something like a brass shim that is a tight fit - does not matter so much that the gear centre is then too small as it is easier to use a broach to cut a larger hole. (Remember the engineer's motto that it is easier to make a hole bigger than it is to make a hole smaller.) These should be interference fits and then simply locked in place with Loctite 603. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinty3f Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 I used some sticky copper tape, the stuff you use as a wire substitute, wrapped tightly around the shaft. By over wrapping first, it was possible to remove small amounts until an interference fit was achieved. Then the gear (in my case cut from the now redundant Lima armature) was twisted on in the same direction to avoid unwinding the copper foil. After checking that it ran ok, a drop of superglue was dribbled into the centre. So far, after about 18 months regular use nothing has come adrift and the loco, a Class 33 is a far better runner than before. Of course, extra pickups were added and a Bachmann chip went in as well. JD 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) What about using a bit of feeler gauge to shim the gear? Edited December 5, 2013 by royaloak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Is it not possible to use a brass sleeve? I managed to find some brass sheet of the correct thickness and made up a sleeve, and it does fit really well, so I have now made the remotored Ringfield working nicely on the bench. It will need some Loctite or superglue to permanently secure the gear & sleeve in place. One advantage over the original Ringfield is that the spur gear will fit though the reamed chassis hole, so that you can fit the sleeve and gear onto the motor, then secure the motor in place. The remotored Lima pancake in the Class 117 power car had a good run for the first time last night, and I was pleasantly surprised at its performance. Starting and stopping was very smooth - much better than the Lima original. Top speed was way above anything you would want to run it at normally. Pulling power was limited - I tried to pull a rake of 7 Bachmann Mk1s, and there was a lot of slipping and it never really got going. Some additional weight might have solved the issue, but as I dont intend to pull that sort of load, it isnt essential for me. It is very responsive to low settings on a standard DC controller, and I didnt dare getting it to full power on the controller. One of the articles on the links earlier in this thread talked about putting a resistor in series, which might help protect it from too high a voltage. I have a variety of resistors, so might have a go at that - one of the suggestions on the links above was a 150 ohm one for a Dock Shunter, so that will be a starting point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Those CD motors tend to have a 2-6V operating range. The ones I have found in CD drives are either: Mabuchi FF-030PA or PK, FF-050SB or FF-130RH or SH (all small can motors), http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/product/p_0304.html or Panasonic/Matsushita/Minebea MDN3 (the remotoring one) and PPN13 (the long one) http://www.eminebea.com/en/engineering_info/rotary/brushmotor/dc_brushmotor/cat/001-01.shtml Adrian Edited December 9, 2013 by Adrian Wintle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 9, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 9, 2013 I managed to find some brass sheet of the correct thickness and made up a sleeve, and it does fit really well, so I have now made the remotored Ringfield working nicely on the bench. It will need some Loctite or superglue to permanently secure the gear & sleeve in place. One advantage over the original Ringfield is that the spur gear will fit though the reamed chassis hole, so that you can fit the sleeve and gear onto the motor, then secure the motor in place. The remotored Lima pancake in the Class 117 power car had a good run for the first time last night, and I was pleasantly surprised at its performance. Starting and stopping was very smooth - much better than the Lima original. Top speed was way above anything you would want to run it at normally. Pulling power was limited - I tried to pull a rake of 7 Bachmann Mk1s, and there was a lot of slipping and it never really got going. Some additional weight might have solved the issue, but as I dont intend to pull that sort of load, it isnt essential for me. It is very responsive to low settings on a standard DC controller, and I didnt dare getting it to full power on the controller. One of the articles on the links earlier in this thread talked about putting a resistor in series, which might help protect it from too high a voltage. I have a variety of resistors, so might have a go at that - one of the suggestions on the links above was a 150 ohm one for a Dock Shunter, so that will be a starting point. Back to back diodes also work, as each diode drops about 0.7 volts, so you can add them in series. So if you used 6 diodes (1N4004 will be fine) 3 in series each way, the voltage drop would be 2.1 volts.add or subtract diodes to suit. Just make sure you use the same number facing each way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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