Tackeroo - The Cannock Chase Military Railway project

[wagonbasher]

I knew there was something wrong when I looked at this horrible shower of excuses for soldiers when I watched them forming up yesterday.

 

They are all at slope arms using their right rather than their left shoulders.

 

Also, when the rifle is sloped, the magazine should be facing outwards from the body.

 

 

Come on Sgt York, get those men sorted out!

 

A Crusty-Major (retd)

Now.....   Rifle pointing the wrong way is me....   I can probably fix that.  you will see that the weapons and some of the webbing are still in undercoat..  however, the right hand left hand thing is as per the figures supplied.

 

WD models produce the kits and I had spotted in some publications that the rifle should be in the other hand.  I can fix the magazine forward bit but you will have to lump the hand orientation

 

Andy

[Clive Mortimore]

I knew there was something wrong when I looked at this horrible shower of excuses for soldiers when I watched them forming up yesterday.

 

They are all at slope arms using their right rather than their left shoulders.

 

Also, when the rifle is sloped, the magazine should be facing outwards from the body.

 

 

Come on Sgt York, get those men sorted out!

 

A Crusty-Major (retd)

Permission to speak but does your drill book include the command "Change Arms" where the rifle is changed from the left to the right as and when the Sergeant Major feels the lads has had enough of it being on the left. Could the recruits from far off New Zealand be practicing that very command?

 

I do notice that the NCO is throwing a saute to the officer, normally when an officer is about to inspect a squad, platoon, company.......the NCO in charge will call them to attention and if carrying rifles they would be in "The Order". Slope Arms was usually preformed just before going for a walk around the parade square.

 

When I done my junior NCO cadre we had to take turns drilling the squad, and under the direction of the course sergeant I gave the order to change arms on the march. My colleagues performed it very well, thankfully because I am sure I missed timed the order. That is why I remember "Change Arms".

 

Edit Look what I found

Edited July 9, 2017 by Clive Mortimore

[wagonbasher]

does that mean they are ok? ?

 

 

 

magazine still outward

 

 

 

Andy

[wagonbasher]

Permission to speak but does your drill book include the command "Change Arms" where the rifle is changed from the left to the right as and when the Sergeant Major feels the lads has had enough of it being on the left. Could the recruits from far off New Zealand be practicing that very command?

 

I do notice that the NCO is throwing a saute to the officer, normally when an officer is about to inspect a squad, platoon, company.......the NCO in charge will call them to attention and if carrying rifles they would be in "The Order". Slope Arms was usually preformed just before going for a walk around the parade square.

 

When I done my junior NCO cadre we had to take turns drilling the squad, and under the direction of the course sergeant I gave the order to change arms on the march. My colleagues performed it very well, thankfully because I am sure I missed timed the order. That is why I remember "Change Arms".

 

Edit Look what I foundChange Arms.jpg

 

 

Yes....   Re the edit...  That is exactly what they were doing......  I knew that obviously!!

 

Andy

[wagonbasher]

I knew there was something wrong when I looked at this horrible shower of excuses for soldiers when I watched them forming up yesterday.

 

They are all at slope arms using their right rather than their left shoulders.

 

Also, when the rifle is sloped, the magazine should be facing outwards from the body.

 

 

Come on Sgt York, get those men sorted out!

 

A Crusty-Major (retd)

Can you help

 

What's kicked off with those MP's.  They don't look happy with the wagon driver and his mate baldrick?

 

Andy

[Clive Mortimore]

does that mean they are ok? ?

 

 

 

magazine still outward

 

 

 

Andy

Hi Andy

 

Yes and no. No because it was normal for the rifle to be on the left shoulder when in the slope arms position. But yes if the NCO has just ordered change arms. As I stated earlier change arms only happened when the NCO thought the lads left arm was needing a rest, which was very rare or just doing drill for drill sake (as I did on my junior NCO course). So when Mr "I Don't Mean To Criticize But" points out it should be the left shoulder, you have your answer, the NCO has just ordered "Change Arms".  Contact Clogydog (Alan Monk) he is in a sort of reenactment group and I know they have a Lee Enfield Rifle drill book.

 

I never got promoted, every time I was on orders our commander would say after he had fined me, "You do realise Mortimore you were the next in line for promotion.........again."

[Mark Forrest]

Wow, I thought modelling wagons was complicated

[Happy Hippo]

Get all the rifles in the correct orientation and you'll be fine, especially as you have remembered why the rifles were on the 'wrong' shoulder.

 

That NCO who is saluting is actually an officer!

 

As evidenced by his wearing jodphurs! Other ranks, even cavalrymen do not wear such.  Heavy serge trousers and puttees being the standard issue.

 

The squad of men would seem to be at a bit of a loose end as there is no NCO skulking around to sharpen them up.

 

Hence the rag tag and bobtail of sloped arms at the wrong shoulder with some facing in and others facing out.

 

In reality, if such a squad were being exercised in the change arms whilst in the slope, an officer walking up would cause the NCO i/c to bring the squad back to the slope on the correct shoulder, then to order arms back to the attention position.  The NCO would then face the officer and salute and ask for leave to carry on.  If the officer wished to address the squad then the NCO would ask permission to stand the squad at ease.

 

However, if it was a drill session, and they had just got into the slope on the right then the NCO on seeing the officer would  just order his squad to 'STAND STILL' then salute the officer and if necessary ask for permission to carry on. Generally speaking the salute would be returned and the NCO told to 'please carry on Cpl/Sgt/etc'

 

But, if it were on a regimental square with a drill Sgt or perhaps even the RSM drilling a squad, then any officer who just happened to be bimbling across said square would be told, in no uncertain terms, to 'GET OFF MY F***ING SQUARE'.......sir!

 

As a matter of interest, drill such as the change arms was usually only carried out by a qualified drill instructor:  You know who they are as they go around with a pace stick and are permitted to march around whilst giving orders.  Lesser mortals must stand to attention on the square and face the squad and give orders only under the instructor's beady eye. Under his watchful glare you might, as Clive mentioned, risk a change arms or a change step, but watsh out if you or they got it wrong.

 

Basically, if you ain't qualified, you were only allowed to form them up, get the rifle to the shoulder and march then from A to B with eyes left or right should you meet an officer.  At the other end you dismissed them and that was about it. 

 

(As far a terminology goes,I've used the term squad to mean a small body of men for drill purposes.)

 

Rifle drill has changed twice since the SMLE was the standard infantry rifle, and it is interesting that the slope was replaced when the SLR was introduced, said rifle just being carried at the shoulder, or in the trail using the carrying handle if you were a member of the rifle Brigade. Now with the SA 80, it has reverted to a carry at the slope. 

 

However, the pace stick is still unchanged and I'm sure that up until NCOs had to be nice to soldiers, that they were still threatened with it being stuck into their various orifices when thy erred on the drill square.

 

Mine got left behind in Cyprus when I was casevaced.  If I ever find out who acquired it I will stick my sword up where my pace stick would previously have fitted.

[Happy Hippo]

 

 

I never got promoted, every time I was on orders our commander would say after he had fined me, "You do realise Mortimore you were the next in line for promotion.........again."

Now totally off topic, but I had a Lcpl  that who we all called Yoyo  because of his ability to get to Lcpl and then get busted again:  Then get promoted and busted again.

[Clive Mortimore]

Get all the rifles in the correct orientation and you'll be fine, especially as you have remembered why the rifles were on the 'wrong' shoulder.

 

That NCO who is saluting is actually an officer!

 

As evidenced by his wearing jodphurs! Other ranks, even cavalrymen do not wear such.  Heavy serge trousers and puttees being the standard issue.

 

The squad of men would seem to be at a bit of a loose end as there is no NCO skulking around to sharpen them up.

 

Hence the rag tag and bobtail of sloped arms at the wrong shoulder with some facing in and others facing out.

 

In reality, if such a squad were being exercised in the change arms whilst in the slope, an officer walking up would cause the NCO i/c to bring the squad back to the slope on the correct shoulder, then to order arms back to the attention position.  The NCO would then face the officer and salute and ask for leave to carry on.  If the officer wished to address the squad then the NCO would ask permission to stand the squad at ease.

 

However, if it was a drill session, and they had just got into the slope on the right then the NCO on seeing the officer would  just order his squad to 'STAND STILL' then salute the officer and if necessary ask for permission to carry on. Generally speaking the salute would be returned and the NCO told to 'please carry on Cpl/Sgt/etc'

 

But, if it were on a regimental square with a drill Sgt or perhaps even the RSM drilling a squad, then any officer who just happened to be bimbling across said square would be told, in no uncertain terms, to 'GET OFF MY F***ING SQUARE'.......sir!

 

As a matter of interest, drill such as the change arms was usually only carried out by a qualified drill instructor:  You know who they are as they go around with a pace stick and are permitted to march around whilst giving orders.  Lesser mortals must stand to attention on the square and face the squad and give orders only under the instructor's beady eye. Under his watchful glare you might, as Clive mentioned, risk a change arms or a change step, but watsh out if you or they got it wrong.

 

Basically, if you ain't qualified, you were only allowed to form them up, get the rifle to the shoulder and march then from A to B with eyes left or right should you meet an officer.  At the other end you dismissed them and that was about it. 

 

(As far a terminology goes,I've used the term squad to mean a small body of men for drill purposes.)

 

Rifle drill has changed twice since the SMLE was the standard infantry rifle, and it is interesting that the slope was replaced when the SLR was introduced, said rifle just being carried at the shoulder, or in the trail using the carrying handle if you were a member of the rifle Brigade. Now with the SA 80, it has reverted to a carry at the slope. 

 

However, the pace stick is still unchanged and I'm sure that up until NCOs had to be nice to soldiers, that they were still threatened with it being stuck into their various orifices when thy erred on the drill square.

 

Mine got left behind in Cyprus when I was casevaced.  If I ever find out who acquired it I will stick my sword up where my pace stick would previously have fitted.

Hi Richard

 

It was suggested a few times that should I not behave I might find the pace stick where the sun didn't shine.

 

Didn't spot the lower body attire of the figure saluting. Very odd models, the research WD Models put into their other models it seems very strange they got the "normal" slope arms position wrong and included two officers and no NCO. A group like that would be better just standing to attention or at ease with their rifles in the order.

 

As for marching with a SLR at the trail even REME did, well our platoon did when I was training owing to our staff sergeant being an ex Green Jacket.

 

I was never a good soldier, and hated drill but I was a good gun fitter. When attached to the Royal Artillery at the end of each day I always had the battery's six guns serviceable, unless I was waiting on spares. The other gun fitters didn't always achieve six serviceable guns and they were all NCOs. 

[Clive Mortimore]

Now totally off topic, but I had a Lcpl  that who we all called Yoyo  because of his ability to get to Lcpl and then get busted again:  Then get promoted and busted again.

Even more off topic I had a springer spaniel called Yo Yo

 

[Alister_G]

 

I had a yo-yo once...

 

About 40 years ago...

 

Al.

[wagonbasher]

Hi Richard

 

It was suggested a few times that should I not behave I might find the pace stick where the sun didn't shine.

 

Didn't spot the lower body attire of the figure saluting. Very odd models, the research WD Models put into their other models it seems very strange they got the "normal" slope arms position wrong and included two officers and no NCO. A group like that would be better just standing to attention or at ease with their rifles in the order.

 

As for marching with a SLR at the trail even REME did, well our platoon did when I was training owing to our staff sergeant being an ex Green Jacket.

 

I was never a good soldier, and hated drill but I was a good gun fitter. When attached to the Royal Artillery at the end of each day I always had the battery's six guns serviceable, unless I was waiting on spares. The other gun fitters didn't always achieve six serviceable guns and they were all NCOs.

 

So, I bought two sets and each set had 6 commonwealth soldiers with interchangeable heads... So the choices were the Scottish Tam O Shanter, the Anzac brim hat with the side folded up and the standard British peak hat. The problem is that the New Zealand Rifle Brigade wore 'lemon squeezer hats... WD Models do American soldiers in other sets and the American Montana hat looks very similar if not the same as the lemon squeezer. WD are very helpful and sold me Montana heads. Each set came with two officers, one saluting and the other hands behind back holding his stick. So Two officers were despatched to other scenes.

 

 

I presumed the saluting officer was the lower ranked officer and was saluting the other more senior officer.

 

The hut behind is a guard hut, each 'section' of the camp had one (each section - line) along with a regimental institute, Cook house, shower block, latrines, amongst the many lines of barrack huts. There are photos showing this sort of drill at guard huts (I've not copied them, maybe I should) at other camps.

 

your challenge if you choose to accept is to find the other two officers, clue, he's no longer saluting.

 

I had to stop playing with model soldiers since there was a layout to finish... The better painted figures have had a thin black wash applied and then dry brushed. With a light colour, then a few bits picked of with a gold and a brown gel pen. this is best seen with the soldiers around the table. The seated soldiers (including the one on the collapsed steps) have not had the treatment where the standing soldiers have.

 

Andy

[Mikkel]

 

your challenge if you choose to accept is to find the other two officers, clue, he's no longer saluting.

 

 

Hmm, I think one is having a chat and the other is "seeing red"?

[Tiffy]

How well I remember those peaceful periods of instruction and information on the drill square - especially pace stick drills

 

"If you don't sort yourself out, I shall stick my pace stick up your nose and twirl you round my head like a bloody football rattle!"

 

Hyperbole with a capital H for humour - but God help you if you were caught sniggering after hearing it!

[wagonbasher]

Hmm, I think one is having a chat and the other is "seeing red"?

If you mean hes a MP no...

 

Andy

[TheSignalEngineer]

If only it was as easy as Photoshop

 

 

[Alister_G]

I'm very sorry for being off topic again, but as soon as I saw what TSE had posted, I thought of this...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll just go now, shall I?...

 

[Andy Y]

I'm now getting to a part I've been looking forward to; the construction of the ordnance store, the largest structure on the model.

 

To put it into context this is where it sat in reality near the spot known as 'Dry Pits' on top of the Chase. It is quite easy to determine the position of the building still as there's a large rectangular area with no tree growth, limited by the concrete pad that the building would have sat upon.

 

 

I spent quite a time designing the components in Adobe Illustrator for laser cutting, kindly cut for me by Geoff Taylor with loads of advice on making it fit for cutting and the best materials. I collected a daunting array of parts neatly packed into large Jiffy bags according to the parts sheets drawn up. Of course, there are no instructions and as certain parts can be quite similar to others it is necessary to refer back to the original drawings.

 

A lot of the design owes its inspiration to original plans distributed to contractors for the construction of such buildings and scant photographic evidence, usefully including ones showing how buildings were erected.

 

 

A few tests on scrap pieces were carried out on how it would take paints or dyes. Most of my modelling gear is packed ahead of a house move so I've fallen back to some basics, these Daler Rowney acrylics are easy to work with to mix a simple palette of tones and thin accordingly with water. Nothing fancy is needed in the way of brushes either.

 

 

After testing I tackled the floor, one small picture gave a lot of design cues, including the diagonal floorboards.

 

 

This will be knocked back a bit in due course.

 

 

After test-fitting various components, I decided to start with one of the gable walls, a simple 3-part assembly with an external face cut from 1mm MDF, an internal lining cut from 300gsm card and the internal structural framing of 1mm MDF.

 

 

Each of the three elements was painted up before assembly, a lot easier than trying to paint around that framing afterwards. An overall wash of a base colour and with selected individual planks picked out in a variety of tones. The three components were then glued with Rocket card glue, the nozzle is very easy to keep fine control without creating any overuse.

 

 

 

There we are; one small, easy bit done. I can already sense I've made some design cock-ups that I'll have to work around, nothing too serious though so I'd better move onwards.

[The Johnster]

This is stunning work, Andy, and modelling at it's best, a standard by which one is able to learn about how the real structures were designed and put together.  I am in awe!

[Stubby47]

 

Each of the three elements was painted up before assembly, a lot easier than trying to paint around that framing afterwards. An overall wash of a base colour and with selected individual planks picked out in a variety of tones. The three components were then glued with Rocket card glue, the nozzle is very easy to keep fine control without creating any overuse.

 

Are the same planks the same colour both inside and out ?

 

Also quite impressed with the level of what will presumably be unseen framing.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Stubby47

[Andy Y]

Are the same planks the same colour both inside and out ?

 

Also quite impressed with the level of what will presumably be unseen framing.

 

Although the external tones are not final at this stage they will be different to the inside as the timber treatment and weather effects will be different.

 

I delight in spending more time on the unseen, inconsequential or pointless than the obvious bits. Far more pointless bits will happen inside in due course.

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

I delight in spending more time on the unseen, inconsequential or pointless than the obvious bits. Far more pointless bits will happen inside in due course.

Are you going to do some more cottages?

[Andy Y]

Are you going to do some more cottages?

 

Yes, these are a long way away behind the backscene. Interestingly, Tolkein lived in one which you won't be able to see.

[81C]

Yes, these are a long way away behind the backscene. Interestingly, Tolkein lived in one which you won't be able to see.

Did Pete Brady live next door?.