Javelin Models Long wheelbase LMS Black V in O Gauge

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In my write up on the Seven Duke, I have mentioned my previous build, the Javelin long wheelbase LMS Black V on one or two occasions and also posted a couple of pictures. There seemed to be some interest in this on the forum so I though I would do a retrospective write up on the build.

 

I was lucky enough to fine two pristine and complete examples of the kit on the Guild stand at Telford in 2010 which were on offer at just over £200 each. The price at the time was about £320 (from Gladiator) so they were a bargain. Having examined the two kits extensively and satisfied myself that they were complete, I took the plunge and made my choice. Here's what you get in the box, along with the ABC motor gearbox and Slater's wheels purchased separately.The pic for the tender sides will follow as I need to resize it.

Edited October 7, 2018 by PAD

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Here's the remaining fret resized. Also as I have advantaged of having already finished the model, 2 shots after painting lining and weathering.

 

In my time I have built kits from Jim Harris, College Models, Acme, Connoisseur, Agenoria, Chowbent, MMP, JM Models, DJB, Slaters, Piercey and DJH. Of those DJH are the most expensive and probably the best in terms of quality and ease of build. I would put this kit above all of those as I found it an absolute joy to build. Looking at OzzyO's thread on the "Princess Anne", the design and construction of the tender appears identical, with the same inner framework to support the coal bunker, so I do not know if there is a connection between the design of this kit and David Andrews. I have never had the pleasure of building one of the latter's kits but from what I have heard and seen, they are also excellent.

 

Although I have all the pictures of the build, I will take my time over posting it as I need to resize all the photos.

[3 link]

Wooahay !!,

 

Not a loco from my chosen region, but what is there not to like about a Black 5. They look such a well balanced power house, proper fit for purpose.

 

This thread will give John ( grasshopper ) some good bedtime reading I reckon .

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

[N15class]

You were lucky with your purchases, it is nice when you get a bargain that is a bargain. I have always fancied building a five, even though it would have no place in my ex-LSWR 1930's scenarios. I look forward to how you went about this one.

 

Did you make notes or do you remember how each loco was constructed?

[Kenton]

 

I was lucky enough to find two pristine and complete examples of the kit on the Guild stand at Telford in 2010 which were on offer at just over £200.

Two for £200 ? that's not a bargain its a steal !

[Horsetan]

Mmm....Stephenson valve gear....

[JeffP]

Looking forward to another interesting build.

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Mmm....Stephenson valve gear....

Stephenson valve gear!!! Where?

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You were lucky with your purchases, it is nice when you get a bargain that is a bargain. I have always fancied building a five, even though it would have no place in my ex-LSWR 1930's scenarios. I look forward to how you went about this one.

 

Did you make notes or do you remember how each loco was constructed?

Yes I have some notes that I made, plus the instructions and of course the photos taken during the build.

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Before starting the kit I scoured my railway books for information on the Black 5s, which despite from being a standard LMS design, had a myriad of differences. The long wheelbase variant introduced under Ivatt was similar in appearance to the later Stanier variants, but with a lot of detail differences. My chosen prototype 44679 differed as below. I have noted where this was and wasn’t catered for in the kit.

Built with a part welded/part riveted tender – supplied in the kit.

Had roller bearing axle boxes with modified spring hangers – plain bearing boxes supplied in the kit with the original type spring hangers, so sourced the roller bearing variety from Gladiator. This means you cannot build an Ivatt version with plain bearings and modified hangers, as some had, from the kit as it comes.

Had “flat type” tender vents –supplied.

Had feed water filters on the outside of the tender frames between the 1st and 2nd axle boxes – supplied.

Had pillars (handrail k nobs) both top and bottom on the cab back plates – supplied.

Had rocking grates with an operating lever running from the front of the cab along the right hand side of the firebox – not catered for in the kit so made the lever from waste etch.

Had double brake shoe hangers on the loco – supplied (etched).

Had raised oil boxes part way along the footplate on both sides - supplied.

Top feed placed on the front boiler ring – supplied but needed modifying to the top hat cover type.

The oil atomiser was placed on the footplate near the rear of the smoke box on the right hand side – not provided in the kit so sourced from Laurie Griffin.

Ivatt type steam cocks and pipes on the cylinders – Stanier type supplied so sourced from Laurie Griffin.

The blister cover on the stop cock for the atomiser steam supply was placed lower down on the left hand side of the smoke box, below the handrail - supplied.

The steam lance cock was placed higher up on the right hand side of the smoke box – not provided in the kit. Could not source a suitable casting so made from scratch.

The top feed pipes ran under a cover plate in the boiler cladding. This is supplied in the kit but is too long resulting in the pipe emerging too low down on the boiler. After following the instructions I realised it was wrong and (with much cussing) corrected it. This left a whole low down on the boiler sides but these are mostly obscured by the back plates to the sandbox fillers.

There was no oil box on the top sidebars and these are supplied as such in the kit.

Longer slide bars fitted – supplied.

Shorter, 10’- 10’’connecting rod – supplied.

Longer union links fitted – the original shorter versions were supplied on the etch, and I had to modify these to make longer. The other option is to make from scratch, but I think it is as broad as it is long, as to which the best choice is.

In addition to the above mentioned sourced/scratch built parts, the following parts were required.

Cast brass steam heating and brake pipes to replace the white metal ones.

3 point oil boxes made from scratch to replace incorrect cast brass ones supplied. I will show why later when I get to writing up the build in detail.

6 additional 2 point oil boxes were required – had 4 cast brass in my spares box and made two from scratch.

Oil cut off tap between lubricators and the oil atomiser not supplied – made from scratch.

Scratch built the oil boxes on the etched drop links and combination levers.

Ash pan operating lever –not supplied, sourced one from Acme from their Ivatt Class 4 kit.

Injector operating levers – not supplied, fabricated from waste etch.

Top joint and screws not etched in the boiler, so scored the joint and added a representation of the screws from tiny brass nails. Forget where I got them from some years ago.

The operating links from the mechanical lubricators to the valve gear are not supplied so made these (cosmetic) items from waste etch.

There should be a right angle pipe inside the front left hand frame under the smoke box – used a cast brass item from a Slater’s Caledonian pug, again from the spares box.

Added the locking screw handles to the sieve boxes using some 4mm scale handrail knobs and brass wire.

Square cover plates (X2) added to the shoulders of the cylinder wrappers.

Replaced the cast w/m buffers with cast brass items from Gladiator.

Added the two missing rivets either side of the smoke box ring.

Two additional wash plug holes needed to be drilled low down on the firebox sides. There were enough spare plugs (etched) in the kit.

Otherwise the kit was built as per the instructions which are very good, but if anything else springs to mind during the write of the build, I will highlight it.

And just so it's not all boring text in the post, here's another pic of the completed loco.

[Jack P]

Fantastic!

[dibateg]

Nice work, especially the pipes, how did you get the copper and brass bits to retain their original colour?

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I paint them by hand after spraying the main colour using Revel copper and brass. Don't know the reference numbers but I will check and post later. The brass is very "life like" on small parts even without weathering, but I don't think it would look the part on a GWR safety valve cover. The copper only looks ok if you weather it, but as you can see it looks pretty good.

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I failed  to mention earlier  that the  kit  comes  with quite comprehensive instructions with numbered sequences to follow in relation to exploded drawings, and also  which includes drawings  of  the  frets and  a list of  parts to help identify  the  various castings.

 

I actually started the  build with the  loco chassis, but  I have  resized all the  tender  pics  so I'll kick off with that. It is  quite  conventional by etched  kit standards in that it  has  an inner removable chassis with the  axles, bearings and  wheels, with the  tender under frames  and  axle boxes being purely cosmetic.

 

The chassis is  designed for  a  rigid construction but  the option to "float" the  middle axle by filing away the  half etch centre hole to make  a "slot". This  is  designed  to include springing via rodding connected to the  bearings passing  through a  spacer, with a phosphor bronze spring acting  on the  end  of  the  rod. Half etch cut outs are also provided for  those  who wish to fit horn blocks or  compensation but  not  parts are  provide for this. I went  with floating  and  springing the  centre axle which is  my preferred approach. Half etched index marks are provided to drill holes for  plunger  pick up to be  fitted, but  again these  have  to be  supplied by the  builder.

 

The brake rigging  is  all etched  which I like, and  the  chassis went  together  without problem, just building  as  per  the  instructions. The only bit  you  have  to solve  for  yourself is  how  to fit the frame cross members and  make  them removable. If you  solder them into the  frames  you  will then be  unable  to remove  the  inner chassis. I opted to fit  rodding  to the  cross members which slots  into drilled through rivet detail in the frames.  I did this  for both cross members an then found  that the  water pick got  in the  way. In the  end I modified the  rear one so that it  is  permanently fixed to the  water pick up gear and  comes out  on the  chassis as can be  seen in the  last two pics.

 

I note  that some  of  you manage  to post a number  of  pictures with text in between. Can anyone  tell me  how  to do that? I only  seem to be  able  to post the  text in one  block and  then add the  pics  afterwards.

[3 link]

If you want to insert the text between photos, what you have to do is fairly straight forward ( it has to be if I can do it !! ). 

 

Once you have written some text I usually press " Back space " on my keypad twice to leave a gap between the text and photo then add your photo(s) by clicking "add to post" which is on the right hand side near the bottom of the page, if you have sucessfully added the picture there should be a reference  under your last piece of text ie :- jpeg533789.

 

If all looks good then just press "Back space twice again before you write your next piece of text.

 

Hope you can understand my explanation and just to say I am enjoying the build.

 

ATB,

 

Martyn.

Edited October 15, 2013 by 3 link

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Thanks Martyn, I'll give it a try on the next post.

Cheers, Peter

[ozzyo]

Hello PAD,

 

to write text and then insert a photo, go to more reply options, click on choose files, when the files have finished up loading you will see at the right  add to post / delete.

 

Write your caption, then press enter (this will take you down one line),  if you now click on add to post you should see something like 001 003.jpg on a line of it's own, if you now press enter twice this will leave a line space below the photo and your next line of text.

 

OzzyO.

 

PS if you click on preview post you can have a look how your post will look before you post it. If you don't add all of your photos to your post this will happen. 

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Thanks OzzyO.

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Ok, let's see if I can get the hang of what you blokes above have suggested.

 

 

Above is a pic of the tender tank construction. I didn't take any photos during the build at this stage so the next two shots are courtesy of OzzyO from his Princess Anne thread. Although they are of the David Andrews 9000 gallon riveted tender kit, they are identical to the construction of the Javelin 9000 gallon part welded/part riveted tender. Some of the detail is different, the rivet pattern on the tank sides and the tender tank vents for example, but the basis method of construction is the same. Thanks to OzzyO for use of his pics.

 

 

If you look at the pics you will see that the bunker plates rest on an inner frame. Ozzy mentions that he had to do a bit of filing to get it to fit right and as I recall with mine it was the same, but no problem. I am not a big fan of annealing and if I can get away without doing then will. In this case I managed to bend the tender sides in at the top without it. It all went together very easily although the fire iron tunnel also required some filing and filling of gaps with solder to get it to look right. A nice touch is the fitting of the rear steps through holes in the back plate, you then fold a tab over inside and solder from there. Voila - no cleaning up required! As Ozzy (and others) have mentioned, much better to solder from the inside when it is possible.

 

 

Well it all seems to have work as suggested so thanks again to Martyn and Ozzy.

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One thing I did change was the arrangement of the fitting nuts and bolts for the chassis. The instructions suggest soldering the bolts to the tender top, but I soldered the nuts instead as it is far easier to put the bolts into the nuts with a screwdriver when fitting the chassis than the other way round. Shorter bolts were later fitted to clear the footplate.

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No posts in the last hour or so! All been watching the footie? It's over now we have qualified so everyone back to their benches.

[Kev_Lewis]

We're all waiting for the next instalment.

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Once the tank was together the addition of the various castings, which were very good quality, was quite straight forward. The white metal buffers were replaced with some cast brass items from Gladiator.

 

 

This shows the method used to attach the cross members. The second and fifth rivets were drilled through and some 0.6mm brass rod soldered to the cross member which can be slotted in and out by spreading the frames.

 

 

Here's the method of attaching the tender frames to the base of the tank. They are slot and tab located which makes it easy to fit them and the "V" brackets under the tank were on the frames and are simply bent at right angles and soldered to the base.

 

Here most of the castings and other etched detail is in place.

 

 

 

Note the difference in the tender vents on these tenders compared to the normal tall round ones on Ozzy's tender.

 

And finally a few more shots of the completed tender.

 

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Nice work, especially the pipes, how did you get the copper and brass bits to retain their original colour?

The Revell enamels I use are metallic, No 94 for the brass and No 93 for the copper.

 

Also I note that my last pic of the tender looks like I made a hash of bending the tender top. It is in fact just the lighting/distortion from the exposure, and you can see it's fine if you look at the pic of the same side further back in the thread. Had me worried though!!

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On to the loco chassis. As do a number of modellers, most notably Jazz on this forum, I like to keep things simple when it comes to the works. My favoured method of construction is to have the outer driving axles rigid, with the centre axle allowed some up an down float, controlled by a simple nickel silver or phosphor bronze spring. Normally I just "ovalise" the centre bearing holes, then fit a square washer on the inside of the frame, with a piece of waste etch butted up against it to stop the bearing rotating. There are other ways of doing tis but that it what this old stick in the mud does. Anyway, in this case I did a variation in that I made the hole into a rectangle, on the premise that it is only the lowest and highest point that matter, and it seemed easier to file the hole straight rather than trying match the profile of the turned bearing. Here's what it look like.

 

 

I then soldered a piece of waste fret into one of the half etch vertical grooves provided for those who want to compensate or use sprung horn blocks. Instead of a squared washer (which I find a pain to make), I soldered a piece of waste etch on the top and bottom of the turned brass bearing butted at right angles up to the piece of fret in the groove. The result is that the bearing can move up and down without rotating.

 

 

Other than that I followed the instructions in assembling the rest of the chassis. Here's the frames showing what it looks like inside and out.

 

 

The middle bearings were sprung on the out side behind the wheels with some nickel silver wire. Here's the frames after fitting the wheels.

 

 

The coupling rods are etched laminates pivoted on the knuckle joint as per the prototype. I do not like joint being on the middle crank pin as you then have 3 relatively thin laminates rubbing on the pin which tends to wear groves in it. At least that is what I found with my Acorn R/B Merchant Navy. The break gear is all etched apart from a couple of cast brass linkages on the cross beams and goes together very nicely. The bogie also goes together without any problems and is fitted via a captive bolt and spring fitted to the slot on the bogie stretcher plate. The spring gives some downward pressure to help keep it on the rails but there is no side control. Here's the coupling rods. They are fluted on both sides so the top one shows the rear of the left hand side one.

 

 

This is break gear and sand pipe set up. This is the 1st kit I have built where the brackets to fix the sand pipes to the chassis were included.

 

 

Finally for now, the etched double shoe brake hangers. 9 parts/hanger if you include the mounting rod and the 3 pieces of rod through the side brackets on the hangers. Quite fiddly and time consuming but very satisfying once done. I will have to resize some more of the images before continuing.