Colin parks Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 A similar machine to me. Mine looks more worn out than the one you use!!! I made a punch out of tube for the corners, how do you do yours? Hi Peter, I am only cutting through 10 thou. sheet, so this is the method I use. The outlines of the windows are scribed in with the etched template as used on the 4 SUB sides. I then cut the straight part of the vertical and horizontal window openings. Then with the scribed line as a guide, I cut the corners with the Swann Morton craft knife using a No.1 blade. What I now do is hold the knife point steady in the cutting mat and rotate the side around the blade. It does work for 20 thou. sheet too, which would be more appropriate for your 7mm work. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Colin, out of interest what solvent are you using? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 Colin, out of interest what solvent are you using? Hi Mike, I am using Liquid Poly applied with a very small brush! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Oxlade Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Thanks for the suggestions re. possible layout locations. I'm still thinking it over. It looks as though something small and manageable will be needed in terms of base boards and the location will have to be compatible with the EMU stock that is available (in no particular order): 4 CIG, 4 COR, 4 SUB, 2 HAP, 2 BIL, Tin HAL, 2 HAL. Seaford still would be best if it could be crammed into 14' of scenic area, which is a 50% reduction in length. Grr. - if only I could get Templot to work for me!(With thanks to those who have tried in vain to help already!) Meanwhile, some further progress has been made on the 2 HAPs' new sides. All the windows are now cut in the 10 thou. surface layers. I will have to to carefully divide the sides and give them a good sanding down to remove any rough edges. IMG_7364 (1280x960).jpg Next up will be to cut the 76 droplight/top light layers that will give the doors that characteristic 'Bulleid' look, so lacking from my previous attempts at making sides for this prototype! Colin Oh boy, when you see it like that, that is a HUGE number of windows to cut out and get straight/even/equal. I take my hat off to you Colin! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Hi Mike, I am using Liquid Poly applied with a very small brush! All the best, Colin Just to add to Colin's answer - there is something in this "what solvent are you using" business. From another discussion, I know that Colin is referring to HUMBROL Liquid Poly. There is/was also a "Daywat Liquid Poly" which is/was Butanone / MEK. Therefore, when Colin first mentioned that he used Liquid Poly I made a rash assumption that he was just talking about an expensive way of buying MEK, but when I tried some of his methods, I found I could not replicate his results. Reluctant, as ever, to accept that was down to my own lack of competence, I went into my local Modelzone (late of this world) and bought a bottle of said Hombrol solvent. Well, it was a bit of a revelation. When I opened the bottle, it was immediately apparent that this stuff is different - I do not know what the chemical is, but it smells (nay, stinks) a bit like ethyl acetate or some such. But the main feature is its VERY slow evaporation rate compared with anything else I have tried (apart from Limonene, which behaves somewhat similarly). Having discovered that, I now understand how Colin has managed to build half a million vehicles using only seven bottles of solvent - I could use up half a bottle just by leaving the top loose for a couple of days! More importantly I now understand why the methods he described did not previously work for me - my solvent had gone before the brush got to the job!! So I would say to anyone, if you have not actually tried the Humbrol stuff then please do not assume it is just like "other solvents" - I don't actually think I have come across anything else similar. Equally, if a chemist out there does know its formulation, then I for one would be interested to know what it is. Hope that helps, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeTrice Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Just to add to Colin's answer - there is something in this "what solvent are you using" business. It is why I asked it. The other variable is that different solvents cause different amount of warping, something we are all trying to avoid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 For my last project, as I ran out of Slaters solvent, I used the thinners that I use for my spraying, it is bought locally here, and from what I understand, glycols, alcohols, ketones, hydrocarbons, and esters. But seems to work well, although it is fairly quick evaperation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Just to add to Colin's answer - there is something in this "what solvent are you using" business. From another discussion, I know that Colin is referring to HUMBROL Liquid Poly. There is/was also a "Daywat Liquid Poly" which is/was Butanone / MEK. Therefore, when Colin first mentioned that he used Liquid Poly I made a rash assumption that he was just talking about an expensive way of buying MEK, but when I tried some of his methods, I found I could not replicate his results. Reluctant, as ever, to accept that was down to my own lack of competence, I went into my local Modelzone (late of this world) and bought a bottle of said Hombrol solvent. Well, it was a bit of a revelation. When I opened the bottle, it was immediately apparent that this stuff is different - I do not know what the chemical is, but it smells (nay, stinks) a bit like ethyl acetate or some such. But the main feature is its VERY slow evaporation rate compared with anything else I have tried (apart from Limonene, which behaves somewhat similarly). Having discovered that, I now understand how Colin has managed to build half a million vehicles using only seven bottles of solvent - I could use up half a bottle just by leaving the top loose for a couple of days! More importantly I now understand why the methods he described did not previously work for me - my solvent had gone before the brush got to the job!! So I would say to anyone, if you have not actually tried the Humbrol stuff then please do not assume it is just like "other solvents" - I don't actually think I have come across anything else similar. Equally, if a chemist out there does know its formulation, then I for one would be interested to know what it is. Hope that helps, Yes I use this stuff all the time except for ABS plastic. Sticks anything but if you use too much it will melt the plastic rather severely Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium martin_wynne Posted March 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2014 Humbrol stuff then please do not assume it is just like "other solvents" - I don't actually think I have come across anything else similar. Equally, if a chemist out there does know its formulation, then I for one would be interested to know what it is. Humbrol Liquid Poly is Butyl Acetate -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_acetate It is non-toxic (it occurs naturally in some fruits, hence its fruity smell), but unlike the chlorinated solvents it is flammable. Apart from plastic modelling, it makes a good thinners for conductive silver paint (which works best when applied in several very thin layers). Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 Hmm. I should have been more specific about the solvent that I use. Howard is right in saying the stuff is Humbrol Liquid Poly. I must admit to not realising that Daywat Liquid Poly is different in composition and effect. I can see now why other solvents are causing problems which I seldom have. It seems as if some of the solvents have to be applied in large amounts to counteract the fact that they evaporate so quickly. This would account for David Jenkinson's use of quite large brushes for applying Slater's solvent, which I seem to recall smells like the butanone which I use for ABS plastics. I honestly have only used seven bottles of solvent in over during my adventures with plasticard and I am working on bottle no. eight! I can only say that the Liquid Poly I use is similar in its characteristics to Limonene, which I haven't tried, but hear much about. Meanwhile, using one of the etched templates from Howard's scribing template set, the droplight/toplight layers have been roughed out. As can be seen, these have been cut from a large strip and the individual parts will be separated and cut to size in due course. There are seventy-six of the blighters to fit, but once in place they will hold the glazing on the doors at the right relation to the sides and the top lights will have their inner frames - missing from the original models. Colin 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I like the template. Might try something like that when I get around to doing a couple of ironclads. If there is an error at least they will all have the same error. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted March 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2014 All this talk about solvents, it is odd that we all find something that suits our own way of modelling. I cannot get on with solvents due to the fast evaporation properties. I find either the Humbrol Poly Cement or Revell Contacta best for my needs. I like the fact it is liquid but quite viscos. It does take time to set but when laminating something you have time to line things up. I do use solvents when cementing something together where the capillary action is a help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Humbrol Liquid Poly is Butyl Acetate -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_acetate It is non-toxic (it occurs naturally in some fruits, hence its fruity smell), but unlike the chlorinated solvents it is flammable. Apart from plastic modelling, it makes a good thinners for conductive silver paint (which works best when applied in several very thin layers). Martin. Was also good for thinning down the old formula 'Evo-Stik'*. I used the mixture to paint 'n' glue thin stainless steel or galvanised steel curved formers to the interiors of my Lam Model's plasticard Bulleid coach sides. They're still stuck there, maintaining the profile. *Haven't tried it with the 'new' formula tho'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Humbrol Liquid Poly is Butyl Acetate -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyl_acetate It is non-toxic (it occurs naturally in some fruits, hence its fruity smell), but unlike the chlorinated solvents it is flammable. Apart from plastic modelling, it makes a good thinners for conductive silver paint (which works best when applied in several very thin layers). Martin. Thanks for the clarification re. Humbrol Liquid Poly Martin. I have always found this particular solvent easy to work with and perhaps it is similar in composition to Limonene then? All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Well, I hope it is apparent which toplight has its inner frame added! (The background could have been better admittedly.) There is still all the surface detail to add to the sides, but, the time is approaching when I have to take a knife to the original sides - gulp! Colin 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Immidiately apparent Colin and looking very good too! Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 More work on the 2 HAPs' new sides has included completion of the third layer of lamination using 10 thou. sheet. This brings the sides to 40 thou. thick or 1mm as close as doesn't matter. Using this method of layering turns the rather fragile 10 thou. surface layer into something quite robust. This is the third EMU made this way and also the third permutation of laminating, with each side having a continuous strip of 20 thou. (with venting holes) and on this set of sides the vertical panels extend from top to bottom for extra robustness. The bottom edges still need trimming, but the method is clear: The second cantrail strip is made of 20thou. sheet, 2.5mm wide which brings the top edge to 60 thou. wide. The strip also creates slots at the top of the glazing recesses. Due to the toplight laminations these slots are narrower over the doors. The glazing for the doors will be made from 20thou. PETG from my dwindling stocks and the fixed panes from new stuff which is, as mentioned before, nearer to 30 thou.. The slots can just be seen in this shot: Work has turned to detailing the sides on the outside, with the production of the cab window frames. This has been done in much the same way as the frames made for the 4 COR, cutting a strip to height, making light cuts to the width of the frames (the second man's side being narrower, there are two sizes), cutting in the verticals and horizontals then cutting the curved corners with the point of the knife. Once separated, the corners of the frames were rounded. A cab side window frame fixed in place. It will be refined in shape and sanded down to about 5 thou. once hardened off. Colin 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Looks very good Colin. You have given me some ideas for when I do the LSWR ironclads with their flater sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Looks very good Colin. You have given me some ideas for when I do the LSWR ironclads with their flater sides. Hi Peter, I look forward to seeing your work on the Ironclads. I should think that the methods shown here would work in 7mm, although from what I now know about solvents, it is best to use Humbrol Liquid Poly for making them this way. How you will get Liquid Poly in Brazil I do not know! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Colin They are some way off at the moment. It will probably be a 2 car set. Plus might do one of the ACE composite brakes. Good excuse for a single coach West Country train. As for the liquid poly I will bring it over on our next trip. We normally come over with a 4 cases only one full and return with six. The good thing about flying from here they still give you 64 kg allowence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 Colin They are some way off at the moment. It will probably be a 2 car set. Plus might do one of the ACE composite brakes. Good excuse for a single coach West Country train. As for the liquid poly I will bring it over on our next trip. We normally come over with a 4 cases only one full and return with six. The good thing about flying from here they still give you 64 kg allowence. Hi Peter, Re. Humbrol Liquid Poly, my local model shop is now selling new stock of the product with a Hornby logo on the label. I do hope this has the same properties/ composition as the 'old' stuff. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 The work on the 2 HAPS reached the crucial stage yesterday with the removal of one side from each body. (It didn't seem a good idea to remove both sides at once, leaving the ends unsupported.) I even put a new blade in the knife for the procedure: Before (I had forgotten that the second HAP to be built was dated on completion.) First incision! Etc. Running the blade along using the cantrail as a guide the sides did not put up much resistance. Care had to be taken not to run the blade onto the roofs as there are no plans to re-paint let alone repair them. At this point I felt a little scared by what I had done! The fist side in place with no damage to the roof or ends. It is in the raw state with the end to side joints yet to be smoothed down. Another benefit of Liquid Poly is that it doesn't act like paint stripper when in contact with the painted surfaces. This made installing the new sides much less fraught than it could have been. (It was fraught enough.) Today the second side will be fitted to all bodies. Each side has had to have new clips added on the inside to locate to the floor clips. That was easy compared to fitting the new sides exactly to length between the existing ends. I will not be doing this sort of thing again! Colin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Your bravery knows no bounds Colin and you were right to take the plunge; the result is far better than the original and that was impressive enough. That you were able to do this is testimony to your skill and to the soundness of the original construction. Bet you'll be relieved to see it done though. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Looks good Colin. Are you making different coaches or are they an upgrade? My knowledge of things past 1930ish on railways could be written on a stamp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Phew Colin, there isn't a button for 'big sigh of relief'! Good job they hand a proper cantrail rainstrip though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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