backofanenvelope Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Sorry not meant to come across as a flippant comment, in fact the level of detail you get always amazes me and green is good.. remember (although must have been 3-4) going up to Brighton in the comfort of own compartment it seemed on a green EMU. Tom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 27, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 27, 2013 Hi Andy, Just in case anyone "not in the know" misunderstands you, it was not really a 3-link coupling because, although it did have 3 links, it was semi-permanent in that both of the end links went into solid forged eyes with threaded tail rods - in other words, splitting a set required the split pins taking out then the use of two very hefty spanners. By contrast, a true three-link only needs a shunter with a pole running alongside! Once the coupling was fitted, the centre buffer was under a fair degree of pre-compression. This ensured that there was a minimum of surging when units went from being under power to braking - which was always a bit of an issue with buckeye fitted units - CEPs CIGs - even though they fitted with Pullman gangways or centre buffing plates. As a consequence of this, all the Mk 2 EMUs (class 313, 508 etc) were fitted with Freightliner bar couplings - ie designed for wagons - thus bringing us full circle! Edit - worth mentioning that the reason for a centre buffer is that if you fit a buffer on each corner, you can't pre-compress them otherwise the thing won't go round bends - as most modellers not using toy-train type couplers will have experienced! The three-link is also a pit of a pain when it fails. The unit pulls apart, the power jumpers get pulled out, causing a dead short, and it's all rather awkward until the fitters arrive.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2013 That is an excellent model very impressive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted November 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2013 Sounds like you were very lucky there! When will the Mrs be out of hospital? But does show that plasticard can be a very durable material, and also shows that the joints are strong too! Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Coming together very nicely Colin. They were so commonplace (and hence boring) but when modelled like that it's a joy to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted November 27, 2013 Share Posted November 27, 2013 Coming together very nicely Colin. They were so commonplace (and hence boring) but when modelled like that it's a joy to see. I agree, BernardTPM. Once run-of-the-mill. Now, just a, sometime, pleasant reminiscence of a railway shifting a multitude of commuters. SR paved the way, and others followed suit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 Sounds like you were very lucky there! When will the Mrs be out of hospital? But does show that plasticard can be a very durable material, and also shows that the joints are strong too! Andy G Hi Andy, No harsh words were spoken over the 4 SUB incident. Mrs P. will have to buy me a nice Christmas present in atonement though! There can be no better way of testing the bodywork than to drop it on the floor. It came as a surprise that the roof to side joints of the coach that took the most impact did not crack. All the best, Colin 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 27, 2013 Author Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) I agree, BernardTPM. Once run-of-the-mill. Now, just a, sometime, pleasant reminiscence of a railway shifting a multitude of commuters. SR paved the way, and others followed suit. Hi Ceptic, Strangely enough, today I was mulling over the question of how many passengers an average 4 SUB shifted in its lifetime. If a unit ran twice a day five days a week for 30 years, how many passengers would that equate to? I came up with: 2 x 400 x 5 x 48 (4 weeks off per year for maintenance) x 30 = 5,760.000 passengers in an average SUB's life span. Does that sound close?! It really would be a case of "shifting a multitude of commuters"! All the best, Colin (Edited for incorrect answer to the equation.) Edited November 27, 2013 by Colin parks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2013 (edited) I agree, BernardTPM. Once run-of-the-mill. Now, just a, sometime, pleasant reminiscence of a railway shifting a multitude of commuters. SR paved the way, and others followed suit. Sorry Mr Ceptic, I have to disagree, BR took a backward step in building loads of SR slam door type EMUs. The District Railway had sliding door stock in 1903. How can anyone say the LNER Tyneside stock was inferior to a Sub, or even a lovely looking LNWR Oerlikon unit. Got to give Colin some due, he has done an awesome job on that multitude shifter. Edited November 27, 2013 by Clive Mortimore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2013 Hi Ceptic, Strangely enough, today I was mulling over the question of how many passengers an average 4 SUB shifted in its lifetime. If a unit ran twice a day five days a week for 30 years, how many passengers would that equate to? I came up with: 2 x 400 x 5 x 48 (4 weeks off per year for maintenance) x 30 = 5,760.000 passengers in an average SUB's life span. Does that sound close?! It really would be a case of "shifting a multitude of commuters"! All the best, Colin (Edited for incorrect answer to the equation.) Probably shifted a lot less people than that (same person 1000s of times ) but it would be a lot more trips I think. 10,000,000 passengers would be possible Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 27, 2013 Hi Ceptic, Strangely enough, today I was mulling over the question of how many passengers an average 4 SUB shifted in its lifetime. If a unit ran twice a day five days a week for 30 years, how many passengers would that equate to? I came up with: 2 x 400 x 5 x 48 (4 weeks off per year for maintenance) x 30 = 5,760.000 passengers in an average SUB's life span. Does that sound close?! It really would be a case of "shifting a multitude of commuters"! All the best, Colin (Edited for incorrect answer to the equation.) Probably need to add at least another million for the off peak and weekend journeys. But it's as good a way of getting a figure as any. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Having got the sides sanded nice and smooth, the next and last plastic detailing to the sides are the water strips above the doors(let's not think about the roofs yet!). This is the first of the bodies thus detailed. I had originally thought to use 10 thou. strip for this job, but instead opted for Ian Fisher's 5 thou., which has been useful for more than just the mending plates as it turns out. The strips need sanding down to almost flush with the body side, which is going to be tricky. Colin 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Probably shifted a lot less people than that (same person 1000s of times ) but it would be a lot more trips I think. 10,000,000 passengers would be possible Good point MJI. Perhaps 'passenger journeys' would have been a better term to use in the calculation. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted November 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2013 Sorry Mr Ceptic, I have to disagree, BR took a backward step in building loads of SR slam door type EMUs. The District Railway had sliding door stock in 1903. How can anyone say the LNER Tyneside stock was inferior to a Sub, or even a lovely looking LNWR Oerlikon unit. Got to give Colin some due, he has done an awesome job on that multitude shifter. Ohh, Tyneside LNER units....there's one for the DJM thread! That really would be wish listing.... Back on topic for a change - Colin, what grade and type of paper do you use for 'sanding' the plasticard please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2013 Good point MJI. Perhaps 'passenger journeys' would have been a better term to use in the calculation. All the best, Colin How many round trips would a SUB make per day? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted November 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2013 How many round trips would a SUB make per day? SUBs and EPBs were indeed peak-hour units, but most services then carried on, typically with a 30-minute frequency, throughout the day, using a significant % of the fleet, probably at least a third I should think. Some of the routes were quite long, too - London Bridge to Horsham via Mitcham Junction and Dorking, for example. So while one day a unit might make a couple of round trips in the morning, then slumber at Selhurst, Crystal Palace or NXG until the evening, the next day it might be on the go from dawn to midnight. Delighted but not surprised by Colin's patience with wifey's faux pas. Sadly such forbearance in adversity is apparently not shared by everyone at the cutting-edge of modelling excellence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Ohh, Tyneside LNER units....there's one for the DJM thread! That really would be wish listing.... Back on topic for a change - Colin, what grade and type of paper do you use for 'sanding' the plasticard please? Hi Neil, Sandpaper is really a misnomer. I should have said carborundum or wet and dry paper. The grade is not marked but it is about 600 and remains very sharp. I also use a fine needle file which has blunted with use on metal, but still cuts plastic, bearing in mind the adage that: "it is easier to take it off than to put it back" when doing the shaping! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 How many round trips would a SUB make per day? Well that is a good question which Ian (Olddudders) answers better than I can. I based my estimate on the fact that SR EMUs ran relatively few empty stock miles compared to in-service mileage according to David Brown in his book 'Southern Electric'. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 SUBs and EPBs were indeed peak-hour units, but most services then carried on, typically with a 30-minute frequency, throughout the day, using a significant % of the fleet, probably at least a third I should think. Some of the routes were quite long, too - London Bridge to Horsham via Mitcham Junction and Dorking, for example. So while one day a unit might make a couple of round trips in the morning, then slumber at Selhurst, Crystal Palace or NXG until the evening, the next day it might be on the go from dawn to midnight. Delighted but not surprised by Colin's patience with wifey's faux pas. Sadly such forbearance in adversity is apparently not shared by everyone at the cutting-edge of modelling excellence. Hi Ian, I knew you would have a 'hands-on experience' answer to MJI's question. I remember reading that EMUs were pretty much flogged until the parts wore out with little time out of service between overhauls except at week ends. (Even then, the 4 SUBs seem to have been common on weekend specials until the 1960's.) As for the 'wife and SUB incident', it was an accident! I am intrigued as to whom you refer in your last sentence though.! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Well that is a good question which Ian (Olddudders) answers better than I can. I based my estimate on the fact that SR EMUs ran relatively few empty stock miles compared to in-service mileage according to David Brown in his book 'Southern Electric'. All the best, Colin Hi Colin. Apologies for going off topic, and setting the cat amongst the pigeons with Clive,.....but... On the odd occasion, I've wondered, what was the most efficient way of loading / disgorging the 'commuter multitudes' ?. Two, or three, sliding doors, per car, or, individual slam-doors to each bay. Experiencing the Waterloo to Waterloo East rush, in both directions, the main bottle-neck came at the Ticket barriers, until the advent of the Cl 508s and the 455s, which, seemed to cause a certain amount of concern among some. Pack ;em in, and ship 'em in / out, was, and still is, the policy. The 4-SUBs were very efficient at this, and offered a very comfortable seat. (If you could find one) All the best, Frank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 28, 2013 Author Share Posted November 28, 2013 Hi Colin. Apologies for going off topic, and setting the cat amongst the pigeons with Clive,.....but... On the odd occasion, I've wondered, what was the most efficient way of loading / disgorging the 'commuter multitudes' ?. Two, or three, sliding doors, per car, or, individual slam-doors to each bay. Experiencing the Waterloo to Waterloo East rush, in both directions, the main bottle-neck came at the Ticket barriers, until the advent of the Cl 508s and the 455s, which, seemed to cause a certain amount of concern among some. Pack ;em in, and ship 'em in / out, was, and still is, the policy. The 4-SUBs were very efficient at this, and offered a very comfortable seat. (If you could find one) All the best, Frank Hi Frank, The slam-door versus sliding door issue apart, in your last sentence you mention seats in 4 SUBs "if you could find one". So, if the units had a seating capacity of about 400 (depending on which type of internal arrangement they had), how many passengers would have been crammed into a fully loaded SUB when standing passengers are factored in? 500? All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 After a long session last night of putting I all the rest of the water strips above the doors and on the roofs, the 4 SUB has its first test run with the bodies on. This was ensure that all the roof strips lined up and also to check alignment of the marking out for other roof fittings. There was a meeting of units: Glad to say that the 4 SUB and the Tin HAL look consistent in shape. The 4 SUB's driver's door windows need slight enlargement. The detail added above the sub's doors does highlight the short-comings of the Tin HAL though. Colin 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 29, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 29, 2013 Hi Colin. Apologies for going off topic, and setting the cat amongst the pigeons with Clive,.....but... On the odd occasion, I've wondered, what was the most efficient way of loading / disgorging the 'commuter multitudes' ?. Two, or three, sliding doors, per car, or, individual slam-doors to each bay. Experiencing the Waterloo to Waterloo East rush, in both directions, the main bottle-neck came at the Ticket barriers, until the advent of the Cl 508s and the 455s, which, seemed to cause a certain amount of concern among some. Pack ;em in, and ship 'em in / out, was, and still is, the policy. The 4-SUBs were very efficient at this, and offered a very comfortable seat. (If you could find one) All the best, Frank Hi Frank Slam door stock did have some advantages over slidding door stock. The guy sitting opposite with his security badge hung around his neck. By the time the train had reached Bethnal Green I had read his name 50 times. On stepping out the door at Chelmsford, "Good night Mr Jones". Mr Jones has just enough time to say good night back and then realise he does not know me. The train stops short of the station, one of the multitude wakes up thinking he is home, opens the door and lands in the ballast. He is helped back in the train. "Must be the other platform" and promptly opens the opposite door and hits the ballast the other side. Hi Colin Just WOW. . 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Oxlade Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 If you're not happy with the Tin HAL, I'll take it off of your hands so you don't have to look at it every day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted November 29, 2013 Author Share Posted November 29, 2013 If you're not happy with the Tin HAL, I'll take it off of your hands so you don't have to look at it every day Well John, It had crossed my mind that the Tin HAL could have its door water strips added at some point as it also could do with a new paint job at the same time. Unfortunately, putting it in a box and sending it to New Zealand hadn't crossed my mind! All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now