RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2019 9 hours ago, billbedford said: I didn't know The Revenue published railway books... They do transfers too. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Argos Posted November 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 12, 2019 8 hours ago, Compound2632 said: They do transfers too. They can transfer my tax bill anytime they feel like! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted November 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2019 To clarify: HMRC transfers HMRS transfers 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 (edited) I'm on the lookout for late Victorian/early Edwardian goods vans, of any company for use as a test vehicle on my OO layout, because surprisingly enough I don't actually own anything that's not a loco/coach and I'm just about to embark on some fairly serious tracklaying. It seems the only affordable options widely available are the GWR Iron Mink A from Ratio and the Slaters MR 8-ton van. Any thoughts or ideas for an accurate, affordable van model for this period are greatly appreciated. Edited March 25, 2020 by Lacathedrale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ChrisN Posted March 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said: I'm on the lookout for late Victorian/early Edwardian goods vans, of any company for use as a test vehicle on my OO layout, because surprisingly enough I don't actually own anything that's not a loco/coach and I'm just about to embark on some fairly serious tracklaying. It seems the only affordable options widely available are the GWR Iron Mink A from Ratio and the Slaters MR 8-ton van. Any thoughts or ideas for an accurate, affordable van model for this period are greatly appreciated. Hi, Taff Vale models do a Cambrian 6 ton van which is mainly plastic or resin, but now sells for £25.00 which I am sure is more than I paid for it, although that was a while ago. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jol Wilkinson Posted March 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2020 It depends on your definition of affordable. Most of the Small Supplier"specialist" kit producers of Victorian or Edwardian vans or wagons tend to manufacture in etched brass or cast resin which is invariably more expensive (Bill Bedford/Mousa Models, Roxey, London Road Models and others). Plastic moulded kits are much cheaper but the range is, as you have found, much more limited. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 25, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 25, 2020 Why a covered goods wagon (to use the period terminology) anyway? They were relatively much less common than they were to become half a century later. Not that there's that much greater choice when it comes to opens, though there are the Ratio LNWR ones and Cambrian Models ones for various companies (depending on how pre-grouping you want to be) in addition to Slaters Midland wagons. For tracklaying and testing, I would have thought you would want to have it well weighted - up to 40 g - 50 g - rather than the < 20 g of an unweighted plastic kit wagon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted March 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said: Plastic moulded kits are much cheaper but the range is, as you have found, much more limited. Cheaper to buy. Cheaper in production (if there are sufficient numbers required - typically x 1,000 or at least several hundred). Much, much, much more expensive to develop and “tool up” prior to production. Hence (as you know, Jol), the limited range. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Regularity said: Much, much, much more expensive to develop and “tool up” prior to production. That's why the returned Slaters range is priced as it is - the tooling costs were paid off long, long ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWales Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 17 hours ago, ChrisN said: Hi, Taff Vale models do a Cambrian 6 ton van which is mainly plastic or resin, but now sells for £25.00 which I am sure is more than I paid for it, although that was a while ago. There is also the long unavailable Model Wagon Company version too, if you can find one! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 13 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Why a covered goods wagon (to use the period terminology) anyway? They were relatively much less common than they were to become half a century later. Not that there's that much greater choice when it comes to opens, though there are the Ratio LNWR ones and Cambrian Models ones for various companies (depending on how pre-grouping you want to be) in addition to Slaters Midland wagons. For tracklaying and testing, I would have thought you would want to have it well weighted - up to 40 g - 50 g - rather than the < 20 g of an unweighted plastic kit wagon I'm modelling Holborn Viaduct (thread here: which was a secondary mainline station in the centre of London. I've done some research on the freight workings and it appears that the vast majority were newspapers and parcels, even early on at the turn of the century. Cattle vans were marshalled onto the newspaper trains, and there's a funny anecdote that fish vans aren't to be used for parcels unless absolutely neccesary - but I can find absolutely nothing at all on any regular or scheduled goods services. I would be really excited to hear about them, if that's possible? I did not check London Road Models or Roxey, but that's a great shout. Thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2020 15 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said: I'm modelling Holborn Viaduct but I can find absolutely nothing at all on any regular or scheduled goods services. I would be really excited to hear about them, if that's possible? Midland goods trains ran over the Widened Lines route and then through to Herne Hill for exchange traffic with the SECR and also to serve some of its South London coal depots. I suspect that the Great Northern may have done likewise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2020 29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Midland goods trains ran over the Widened Lines route and then through to Herne Hill for exchange traffic with the SECR and also to serve some of its South London coal depots. I suspect that the Great Northern may have done likewise. Definitely. Behind a J50. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2020 But I think what he is after is Goods Trains actually into the platforms at Holborn Viaduct. I am fairly sure that would just be parcels & newspaper traffic, handled mostly at night and in a wide variety of goods vans and NPCCS. In other places, there might be reasons to add cattle vans into the mix but it seems vanishingly unlikely at HV. The railways did all that they could to minimise transit time for cattle. Fish traffic was certainly handled, at night, at Cannon St, and probably Blackfriars (St Paul's at OPs era) as they are both close to the old Billingsgate Market. Later (much later) than the OPs period, but I can recall seeing an MLV with GUV or CCT in tow at the short platform on the west side which overhung the route down to Snow Hill and Farringdon. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Cannon Street was a nexus for perishable traffic in vans. One of the inbound workings was a train via Farringdon and Snow Hill to (IIRC) Herne Hill that detached a portion for Cannon Street at Ludgate Hill, passing there around midnight. Some details from the WTTs are transcribed on my "Strand" thread. AFAIK, none of this ever went into the platforms at HV. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 @Joseph_Pestell the WTT from 1903 suggests that there were indeed cattle vans marshalled overnight (well, from midnight) at HV to be attached to the early morning express parcels trains (interestingly, these came from Norwich on the GER down the ELR to Hither Green, then back up to HV) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said: @Joseph_Pestell the WTT from 1903 suggests that there were indeed cattle vans marshalled overnight (well, from midnight) at HV to be attached to the early morning express parcels trains (interestingly, these came from Norwich on the GER down the ELR to Hither Green, then back up to HV) After I had posted, I saw your mention of this on your other thread. It seems like an odd routing (understatement). The train would have to go into Liverpool St to gain access to the East London (involving a reversal) and then two more reversals at Hither Green and Holborn Viaduct. Where was the final destination of these poor beasts that could not have been more easily reached by other routes e.g. Tottenham & Hampstead? Or could they have been empties? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 After being so astounded by it, I failed to note the page/precise WTT so I can't quite record it - here's some examples of HV traffic, though: 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Burnham Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 The Port Vic parcels and express van train (interestingly not described here as Grande Vitesse) would be during the 1900-1904 period following the destruction of Queenborough Pier by fire (again!). Heavier and less urgent goods to Flushing (Vlissingen) went via Tilbury Docks for at least part of this period, because of the limited freight handling capacity at Port Victoria. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 (edited) Does anyone have any idea what the round washer things are on the bottom planks of this LBSCR wagon (bottom picture only): https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/3346.html I thought maybe a place to crank a wagon sheet over, but I see there is one smack bang in the middle of the end (albeit one plank up) and I'm more confused than ever! EDIT; research into 'An Hillustrated History of Southern Wagons vol 2 shows pictures of these and notes them as 'pulley-shaped hooks'. There is indeed a regular hook supplanting these LBSCR designed ones in a later SR photograph. Edited May 9, 2020 by Lacathedrale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said: Does anyone have any idea what the round washer things are on the bottom planks of this LBSCR wagon (bottom picture only): Yes, they're cleats for sheet tie ropes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 The SER and SECR used the same pattern, and the SR continued them, even retrofitting them to some vans when the roofs were found to leak. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 This extract from the excellent Barrowmore resource might be of interest. Dating from BR days. 1 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted May 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2020 The diagram there shows tying to a ring; the next diagram shows tying to a cleat, neither illustrate the rosettes, which are the fittings in question. Those BR documents generally are invaluable - although dating from the 1950s/60s, I think one can take them as exemplifying best practice for at least the preceding half-century if not longer. If following the link, scroll right down the page to the end of the section headed "Freight Vehicles and OPeration". Credit to the Barrowmore Model Railway Group for making these generally available. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnylinny Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 OK, I have a slightly different question about LB&SCR wagons. Specifically the Stroudley 8-ton vans. A lot of them (but not all!) have two characteristic bulges on the bottom of the sides, just outboard of the doors. Does anyone know what they are? Image from https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/wagons/lbsc_box.html The bulges are on the bottom plank of the bodyside, just underneath the level of the bottom door hinges. There doesn't seem to be a hole in the woodwork behind, so are they door bangers, or what? I've not been able to find references to what they are anywhere... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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