For those interested in old cars.

[MJI]

36 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 Of course, it isn't 4 wheel drive that is at work in these instances...otherwise the 4x4 would almost cease to move under wind-up, every time the steering wheel is turned!

Tyre types are the biggest contributor.

 

The fronts will trigger even in the dry but wet all 4 could.

 

But if I stall speed it and lift off. It shoots off to the sound of traction control working well.

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, alastairq said:

 

 

I reckon the only thing quicker to 30 mph would be a Lambretta scooter?

 

 

Errr…..a Tesla 

[doilum]

Back in the day I had a couple of very quick Lambrettas but I couldn't match my mate's Suzuki kettle. Perhaps the most surprising traffic light weapon was the Bond Bug. With almost perfect weight distribution and soft fat Dunlops on 10 inch rims it applied every one of it's 45bhp to the tarmac instantly. A rifle like gear change avoided delay or embarrassment with the pedal pushed hard into the plastic. It then took a while to get up to national speed limit but was easily able to keep up with the traffic of the day on major A roads.

Much maligned by people who have never even sat in one they were great fun on roads without traffic calming, potholes and the two ton SUV that make them. Yes I half rolled it once but that was my own stupid fault. Heavy rain, road thick with mud from a nearby quarry I was going far too fast braked late and turned hard right in front of my future in laws house. Picked up the big pieces, took them home and glued it back together. 2kg of filler and a respray it was as good as new. Happy days.

[PhilJ W]

3 hours ago, alastairq said:

Erm, not the experience of the motorcycle press back in the 1990's!

Quite the opposite, in fact.

Lambretta [or was it Vespa, I cannot besure?] was proven to be the quickest, to 30 mph, than any bike or car!

It was urban performances that were being looked at, as I recall. 

Not 1/4 mile dragstrips or open road performances..

 

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Errr…..a Tesla 

Electric vehicles have terrific acceleration, if they're not weighed down by lead-acid batteries as milk floats were. There are no trolleybuses in service now but they were well known for leaving everything else standing. Steam waggons such as Sentinel were also quick, and fast. One is reputed to have achieved 60 mph but it probably needed a couple of miles of clear road to stop. 

 

 

[alastairq]

3 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Errr…..a Tesla 

Except, Teslas weren't around before the turn of this century? Plus, who would thrash a Lambretta now they're somewhat 'classic?'

[alastairq]

Of course, the big secret of simply setting off, and getting up to intended speed as quickly as possible, is all down to not having to play the mighty Wurlitzer organ with pedals and gearlevers.

 

In the sorts of traffic situations that abounded when Lambrettas were commonplace tools fo transport, meant the scooters [which don't appear to , mechanically, be much like similar sold today....?]...were certainly quicker than other stuff getting away from the lights in the 80's and 90's of the last century.

 

 

 

[MJI]

Older scooters had a horrid hand gear change, a real bike with foot change was much quicker and better.

 

Any biggish bike though could still be in first from 50 (middle weight) to 80 (superbike)

[alastairq]

But, this is all about getting to, and staying at, 30...not whizzing on through to warp speed. So at some point in that 1st gear squirt, the rider will need to drastically back off......assuming, that is, they're still on the bike, and not squirelling on their backside down the tarmac?

[MJI]

22 minutes ago, alastairq said:

But, this is all about getting to, and staying at, 30...not whizzing on through to warp speed. So at some point in that 1st gear squirt, the rider will need to drastically back off......assuming, that is, they're still on the bike, and not squirelling on their backside down the tarmac?

 

Don't need to until you hit 30

[doilum]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

Older scooters had a horrid hand gear change, a real bike with foot change was much quicker and better.

 

Any biggish bike though could still be in first from 50 (middle weight) to 80 (superbike)

A well adjusted cable change using genuine factory parts was a joy to use with clutch and gears controlled with a flick of the wrist.

[MrWolf]

Those twist grip gear changes were as easy as the ones fitted to bicycles, provided that the cable was in good shape, properly adjusted and routed. They're certainly less of a juggle than the petrol tank mounted gear shift on a lot of prewar motorcycles. 

[Kickstart]

On 27/11/2021 at 14:09, Rugd1022 said:

Well it looks like I'll be walking to work tonight - My 'daily' Alfa has failed its MOT, the battery in the Maser is dead and one of the bolts holding it in place has rounded off, and I still haven't fixed the clutch slave cylinder problem in the Cooper S!

Battery retainer is a single M6 bolt on the clamp. Pain to get at. Biggest problem is finding a battery that fits (not a common size, plus the lip it hooks under on one side is low, so some batteries of the right code will not fit). Been tempted to change the battery leads to swap the terminals around, as they would be easier to get. Also, battery terminals are very close to the bonnet!

 

On 26/11/2021 at 18:53, Hobby said:

 

Really? Do you have the statistics to back up that claim? From what I have seen modern cars are pretty reliable and go big mileages with the correct servicing. Yes, when they go wrong it can cost big money, but compared with the stuff I drove around in in the 70's they are much more reliable and will get you home, unlike the old cars.

Problem isn’t so much unreliability overall, rather that a single electronic unit can fail at hideous cost. A colleagues Audi had the control unit for the DSG gearbox fail - not service related (plenty of service related gearbox failures it could have had!). Easily for a car with, say, a couple of years life to suddenly become uneconomic to repair.

 

Older cars might have been less reliable (sometimes substantially), but most bits easily repaired, or or replaced with a cheaply sourced 2nd hand part

 

All the best

 

Katy

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Kickstart said:

 

 

Problem isn’t so much unreliability overall, rather that a single electronic unit can fail at hideous cost. A colleagues Audi had the control unit for the DSG gearbox fail - not service related (plenty of service related gearbox failures it could have had!). Easily for a car with, say, a couple of years life to suddenly become uneconomic to repair.

 

Older cars might have been less reliable (sometimes substantially), but most bits easily repaired, or or replaced with a cheaply sourced 2nd hand part

 

All the best

 

Katy

All true, but as this is a model rail forum, would we be happy with a clockwork Hornby set now? Perfectly reliable, and/or easy peasy to repair………but……..

[MrWolf]

But not all of us want DCC, or sound, or lights on our trains. We want something that looks good and works. 

By your clockwork analogy, it's as if we all want to drive a Benz tricycle?

[boxbrownie]

49 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

But not all of us want DCC, or sound, or lights on our trains. We want something that looks good and works. 

By your clockwork analogy, it's as if we all want to drive a Benz tricycle?

You don’t have to have DCC, sound or lights to get a better Loco than a clockwork Hornby from 1950…..

[alastairq]

24 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

You don’t have to have DCC, sound or lights to get a better Loco than a clockwork Hornby from 1950…..

Really?

Do tell.... 

[MrWolf]

46 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

You don’t have to have DCC, sound or lights to get a better Loco than a clockwork Hornby from 1950…..

 

Interesting excercise in reducto ad absurdum. 

 

The motor vehicle had developed a lot more in the first half of the twentieth century than model trains.

By 1950 even, clockwork and tinplate was old hat. The advances in motor vehicles between 1920 and 1970 were far greater. Since then, we've been tweaking the design and adding bells and whistles.

This might be a model railway forum, but last time I looked, this thread was titled: For those interested in OLD cars. Rather than: For those who want to talk about how much "better" new cars are?

Perhaps we could start a thread called:

The total stranger who buttonholes you whilst you're filling up  your 56 year old car with petrol and gives you an unsolicited lecture on what a rustbucket they were and how bad the handling was? 

 

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

 

Interesting excercise in reducto ad absurdum. 

 

The motor vehicle had developed a lot more in the first half of the twentieth century than model trains.

By 1950 even, clockwork and tinplate was old hat. The advances in motor vehicles between 1920 and 1970 were far greater. Since then, we've been tweaking the design and adding bells and whistles.

This might be a model railway forum, but last time I looked, this thread was titled: For those interested in OLD cars. Rather than: For those who want to talk about how much "better" new cars are?

Perhaps we could start a thread called:

The total stranger who buttonholes you whilst you're filling up  your 56 year old car with petrol and gives you an unsolicited lecture on what a rustbucket they were and how bad the handling was? 

 

But how old is old?

 

Example, my former mid-range Peugeot 205 is now 31 years old. If it still had its original 1360 cc motor and twin choke carb, (85 bhp) it's performance would closely match an original (stock) Mini Cooper S from another 30 years earlier but much more comfortably! Nothing to scare the home mechanic on either. 

 

My ex-206 D-Turbo (now 19-y-o) should have been 90bhp but heavier so roughly similar and with a bit more sophistication, abs, aircon, power steering. Mine had been new to someone in the factory and I'm pretty sure it had the 110bhp ecu. Still averaged over 10mpg better than the smaller capacity and lighter petrol 205, though.

 

John

Edited November 29, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[MrWolf]

How old is old? I suppose that depends on whether or not you can afford a new one.

I've always imagined an old car to be something that your main dealer wouldn't want as a trade in against a brand new car, back before we had minimum part exchange schemes. 

I always used to find it amusing when big used car firms would offer a minimum part exchange of £1000 or so. They were only interested in signing you up for credit (no cash deals) and of course, all those clunks with wet look tyre shine that they were selling were at least £1000 over book to compensate.

I lost interest in cars though around about the time that the interiors became a sea of monotonous grey plastic, which oddly happened before I started driving. I passed my test in a Peugeot 205 GRD, which whilst it was eminently capable (and impossible to stall!) I found it about as inspiring as an empty refrigerator. 

[Hobby]

14 hours ago, Kickstart said:

Problem isn’t so much unreliability overall, rather that a single electronic unit can fail at hideous cost. A colleagues Audi had the control unit for the DSG gearbox fail - not service related (plenty of service related gearbox failures it could have had!). Easily for a car with, say, a couple of years life to suddenly become uneconomic to repair.

 

Older cars might have been less reliable (sometimes substantially), but most bits easily repaired, or or replaced with a cheaply sourced 2nd hand part

 

It does cost a lot if it goes wrong I've never said otherwise, but the key point is that it rarely does go wrong, since the introduction of computers into cars (probably the definition of a "modern", early/mid 80-s when they reached common family cars?) I haven't had one fail due to the electrics. The vast majority of modern cars go on and on, way beyond what we were used to back in the 70s when i started driving, also the engines, assuming correct servicing, also last much longer, cars with 150k plus mileages are commonplace, they were very rare indeed back in my younger days , and even then would have had at least one, probably two, rebuilds.

 

As my daily I am not interested in a car that's easy or cheap to fix, I want one that doesn't need that attention in the first place. And a modern car, with all it's sophistication, does just that, and in addition is much more comfortable, more economical (my current car has an engine that is the same size as my second car, a Mini 1000, but is larger and heavier but has better mpg), and safer.

 

As I said earlier that doesn't mean I don't like the older cars (I wouldn't be on this thread if I didn't!), but they have a time and place for me, and that is to wallow in nostalgia with other, similar minded people, at car shows and on club rallies. For anything else I use the modern, thanks. 

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

How old is old? I suppose that depends on whether or not you can afford a new one.

I've always imagined an old car to be something that your main dealer wouldn't want as a trade in against a brand new car, back before we had minimum part exchange schemes. 

I always used to find it amusing when big used car firms would offer a minimum part exchange of £1000 or so. They were only interested in signing you up for credit (no cash deals) and of course, all those clunks with wet look tyre shine that they were selling were at least £1000 over book to compensate.

I lost interest in cars though around about the time that the interiors became a sea of monotonous grey plastic, which oddly happened before I started driving. I passed my test in a Peugeot 205 GRD, which whilst it was eminently capable (and impossible to stall!) I found it about as inspiring as an empty refrigerator. 

On that basis, anything over ten years is "old", then, but most franchise dealers don't want anything that's much over half that on their forecourts.

 

Any trade-ins over five or so years old usually go to auction (occasionally scrap) or the better examples to independents with whom they have relationships. The latter is how my (then) 12-year-old but sub-100k mile 206 was dealt with.

 

Non-turbo diesels (of any brand) tend to be rather soporific to drive, nothing like a 205xs, I can assure you.

 

John

Edited November 30, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[alastairq]

The trouble with cars that 'never go wrong' is the natural, human tendency towards complacency, over the 'reliable' modern.

 

Folk take their moderns for granted.

Some may think, ''and rightly so?''

 

Which leads us to the constant stream of 'breakdowns', and the need for having breakdown service membership [for 'peace of mind?'], noticeable on the motorways and major routes throughout the country?

 

Witness the numbers of ''new[er]'' vehicles out there with lights missing/out? As an obvious visual example?

 

At least, when an old vehicle needs regular attention on the part of the driver, such so-called ''trivia'' as a brake light out, [for example] get's spotted quickly enough. Whether anything is done about it is up to the driver, but I suspect, for the vast majority of modern vehicle drivers, such trivia will go unnoticed?

 

As an aside, from the last stats from my local constabulary, whose roads policing units help conduct many roadside vehicle checks, something like 85% of vehicles deemed 'unroadworthy were, in fact, less than 10 years old.

Bear in mind, 'roadworthiness' can stretch from having a lawfully required bulb out, to worn tyres, to other more serious matters.

As much as having serious rot in one's sills!  

[APOLLO]

I get a free magazine subscription with my Lloyds bank account. Just changed it to Practical Classics magazine. I'm surprised to see articles on "new number plate" cars (2001 on). A 55 plate Honda Civic hot hatch being one. Probably a nice future classic , but should it be featured in this old established mag ?, or is it just me (and my Rover V8) getting old ?

 

Time marches on.

 

Brit15

[alastairq]

Not too long ago I had a 'repair' issue with my 14 year old Indesit washing machine.

It's control board needed some new capacitors....[supplied and soldered in for a mere 15 pension-quids by a local radio repair person.]

 

Discussion with said expert [ I presume, there?]...elicited the information that washing machine control panels were mostly manufactured by one factory in Italy. They supplied all the major brands.

The boards were all rather similar in design...obviously with features to suit the individual brand manufacturer....but the main difference between, say, a Miele or a Boshh, and  a Beko or a Zanussi [for example] was in the quality of the individual electronics components the board maker specified.

 

Which fact left me to wonder what the actual differences were between a vehicle ECU for a Peugeot [of today] and the same component in a new BMW, for example?

 

Is there a factory somewhere churning out ECUs for new vehicles for all sorts of vehicle brands?

If so, I wonder what the differences are in component specs between a board made for BMW ]for example] and a similar board made for , say, Peugeot?

Edited November 30, 2021 by alastairq

[doilum]

On 28/11/2021 at 14:22, alastairq said:

Except, Teslas weren't around before the turn of this century? Plus, who would thrash a Lambretta now they're somewhat 'classic?'

Dig a little deeper and you will find a tuning scene way beyond anything we could have dreamt of in the 1970s. Custom crankcases and 350cc............