For those interested in old cars.

[boxbrownie]

7 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I feel Ford put a lot of effort into finding a successor for the Mk1 Cortina Lotus. That car had image by the bucketload, but I'm not sure any of the high-tech, high-end successors ever aped that. Others had transplanted 2-litre engines into Mk1 Escorts before the factory version appeared, and that simpler and cheaper installation, with more modest servicing demands, suited all but the die-hard every-hp counts types - and pub boasters. I feel I saw very few RS1800s, compared to the Mk1 RS1600. And the Mk3 RS1600i, with limited power advantage but a different suspension set-up from the XR3i, was even less visible. 

The RS1600i was just an homologation special, should have only made 5000 but it’s sold so well about 8000 were sold in the few months it was available…..I think from about sept to July the next year?

[doilum]

3 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I feel Ford put a lot of effort into finding a successor for the Mk1 Cortina Lotus. That car had image by the bucketload, but I'm not sure any of the high-tech, high-end successors ever aped that. Others had transplanted 2-litre engines into Mk1 Escorts before the factory version appeared, and that simpler and cheaper installation, with more modest servicing demands, suited all but the die-hard every-hp counts types - and pub boasters. I feel I saw very few RS1800s, compared to the Mk1 RS1600. And the Mk3 RS1600i, with limited power advantage but a different suspension set-up from the XR3i, was even less visible. 

The mk 3 RS 1600i was really a homologation special. Ford quickly discovered that it wasn't going to be a competitive replacement for the MK2 in the forests or on the racetrack and switched their attention to the development of the RS turbo, in effect a souped up ,XR3i, and a car dealers dream to sell. Limited numbers, unique parts, high accident / theft rates have made the early 1600i very collectable.

[doilum]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

I feel Ford put a lot of effort into finding a successor for the Mk1 Cortina Lotus. That car had image by the bucketload, but I'm not sure any of the high-tech, high-end successors ever aped that. Others had transplanted 2-litre engines into Mk1 Escorts before the factory version appeared, and that simpler and cheaper installation, with more modest servicing demands, suited all but the die-hard every-hp counts types - and pub boasters. I feel I saw very few RS1800s, compared to the Mk1 RS1600. And the Mk3 RS1600i, with limited power advantage but a different suspension set-up from the XR3i, was even less visible. 

The mk 3 RS 1600i was really a homologation special. Ford quickly discovered that it wasn't going to be a competitive replacement for the MK2 in the forests or on the racetrack and switched their attention to the development of the RS turbo, in effect a souped up ,XR3i, and a car dealers dream to sell. Limited numbers, unique parts, high accident / theft rates have made the early 1600i very collectable.

[doilum]

Sorry for double post. The RS 1800 WAS a homologation special. Dealers had barely cleared the last stocks of the mk1 RS 1600. There were stories of dealers removing the BDA and buying a new Kent engine to sell it on as a " mexico". There was still a good demand for new BDAs from the motorsport community.

[alastairq]

On the thing of homologation specials, the old rear engined Skoda Rapid [136] had 4 pot disc calipers, homologated so the rally cars could use them.

The Estelle made do with a single piston caliper...[in my view, less troublesome]

[Rugd1022]

Newbury in the '60s....

 

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

Newbury in the '60s....

 

Love the Humber Hawk (or Snipe?) estate.

[doilum]

3 hours ago, alastairq said:

On the thing of homologation specials, the old rear engined Skoda Rapid [136] had 4 pot disc calipers, homologated so the rally cars could use them.

The Estelle made do with a single piston caliper...[in my view, less troublesome]

Remember well the antics of John Haugland ( hope spelling is correct) around the forests of North Yorkshire. For the record, we had an Estelle as a winter replacement for the Dutton one year. Great fun in the snow!

[peanuts]

9 minutes ago, doilum said:

Remember well the antics of John Haugland ( hope spelling is correct) around the forests of North Yorkshire. For the record, we had an Estelle as a winter replacement for the Dutton one year. Great fun in the snow!

they did make a fun clubman car for very little cash .set of twin 45 sidedraughts strip as much of the trim out as you can some ran with the diff from the 105 estelle to change the gearing . little trick we used was a 2 foot lump of flat bottom rail bolted to the "boot" floor just behind the headlights got the nose down for extra grip turning in .

[MrWolf]

Wasn't the engine used in the rear engined Skoda's from the MB1000 onwards a development / copy of the old Renault Ten engine? Another underrated machine in my opinion.

[Northmoor]

As a teenager learning to drive, I always thought it funny when my friends joked about how rubbish Skodas were but said they really wanted a Beetle, without seeing the irony.  Another friend later said they were the types who "Wanted to be an individual, like their mates".

[Dunsignalling]

No criticism from me about any of the Skoda Estelles I ever encountered. My Dad worked with a chap who had at least two and lived down an absolutely evil half-mile of unsurfaced nothingness beyond the end of the farm track leading to it.

 

It had ultimately destroyed his elderly S1 Land Rover, which gives a good idea of how bad it actually was, and a decent newer one was beyond his means. Much fun was had at John's expense when he replaced it with a 2/3-year old Estelle. It took three years before something broke that was terminal and he hadn't spent much on it in the meantime. He reckoned it had cost him, overall, less than it had previously to keep the Landy going, so he bought another, with much the same outcome. Neither ever let him down, but Dad moved jobs and I don't know if John ever got a third....    

 

A year or two later a relative bought an Estelle, ex-little-old-lady, about four years old and typically low mileage. He kept it for ages and had next to nothing ever go wrong, with little expense beyond normal servicing. 

 

Beetles? Noisy, thirsty and slow, the latter being a virtue, cos they also didn't stop... I'd rather have had a Minor and I wasn't all that keen on them, either. My chariot at the time was a Renault 10, comfy, reliable, well over 40mpg without needing to work at it, and disc brakes all round.....

 

John

[doilum]

11 hours ago, peanuts said:

they did make a fun clubman car for very little cash .set of twin 45 sidedraughts strip as much of the trim out as you can some ran with the diff from the 105 estelle to change the gearing . little trick we used was a 2 foot lump of flat bottom rail bolted to the "boot" floor just behind the headlights got the nose down for extra grip turning in .

Remember my first trip in the snow. No problem going forward, the problem was making a turn into a side street. Hand brake. Problem solved. A couple of bags of sand made a better solution. Just like you do for a RWD car!

[alastairq]

11 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Wasn't the engine used in the rear engined Skoda's from the MB1000 onwards a development / copy of the old Renault Ten engine? Another underrated machine in my opinion.

 The 105/120 and 130 Estelles used an iron  cylinder head. The 136 [which remained in production, with slight changes, right up into the Fabia range!] was an alloy design.  The 1000MB and S105/110 rear engined Skodas had earlier designs of engine, the parts not being interchangeable ...same with transmissions.

They were all wet linered jobbies.

Whether they originated from the Renault designs is a moot point.....given that the Renault engines continued into their FWD ranges.

The rear engined Skodas had very different engine designs from their earlier front engined ranges [Octavia, etc]

There is a rumour of collaboration [unofficial, I suspect, given the political flavours of the countries concerned?] regarding the transmissions after the early 1970s, with Porsche .....which was a collaboration for Porsches' benefit, given that skoda had some very neat , small engine capacity, racing coupes at the time...the designs of which appealed to Porsche for their intended small capacity coupe range.  The West German [Bonn] Government is rumoured to have put the kibosh on that little deal, resulting in Porsche going cap in hand to VW-Audi [Porsche 914 being the result?}

 

Regarding the 136 Skoda engine [1300cc, all alloy]....when VAG took over the running of Skoda when the political climate changed in the early 1990's...Skoda already had the Favorit FWD range, using the 136 motor in a vertical [upright] mode, driving a FWD gearbox.  In itself, not a 'bad' car, although sadly  not when compared to VW or Peugeot when it came to  sales competition.  However, VAG decided to use the platform of the Polo to have Skoda produce the Felicia. VW engineers tried vainly to get rid of teh 136 engine, and use the VW polo engines of similar capacity. However, the 136 engine proved to be considerably lighter [and more powerful]....so making the Felicia a very pleasant FWD car to drive. The iron VW engines of bigger capacity making the Felicia something of a brick in corners, compared to the lighter 136 engined examples.  [A bit like the early diesel Fiestas, which brought a whole new meaning to understeer]..   VW had nothing in their range to compare to the Skoda 136 engine....Skoda engineers also warned VW engineers not to enlarge the 136 engine from 1300cc to 1400cc....VW prevailed, had numerous failures, so the 136 engine of 1400cc got itself a huge alloy crankcase brace!

 

As a matter of vague interest.....Skoda modified the cylinder head, and the induction system [from carbs to various fuel injection systems]....of the 136 when it got to the later Favorits , and eventually,the Felicia.

What they did was to copy the cyl. head modifications the rally folk were having done to their Estelles and Rapids, by, I think, Bill Blydenstein?  [May have got the wrong tuner there? Not sure, memory flawed]

Thus, instead of having to have one's cylinder head expensively altered to suit, enthusiasts simply took the cylinder head off a Felicia....which was the same.....already modified as per the above!!  Induction systems could be transferred as well [providing one's rear engined flywheel was slightly modified]

 

My last Rapid, used in trialling, had a 136 engine, Felicia head, Favorit electronic ignition, a set of bike carbs [Honda Fireblade] on a Bogg Bros manifold.

Also a modified gearbox [with the lower Estelle final drive]...

 

Most rally rear engined Skodas actually shifted the fuel tank into the front compartment....this added the essential balancing weight...Adding paving slabs to the front compartment only added unwanted weight to the overall car's weight...

[The 1960's Skoda 1000MB rear engined cars [London-Sydney Marathon, anyone?] had, in production, front mounted fuel tanks, but rear mounted radiators....The rads went up front a bit later on [Estelles].]

Another trick to save weight was to get rid of the plumbing for the heating system...which involved two very long [rubber] water pipes from the cylinder head to the front of the car where the heater was......This was a production thing, to give the occupants more or less instant heat, like a front engined car. But water does weigh quite a bit....so by tee-ing the supply & return off the cooling system pipes [the radiator was at the front] under the front end, still gave heat [of a sort] where it was needed....demist, etc.....but took quite a while to get anything like warm, as it needed to thermostat to open, and the whole system to get up to temp, first.

But, hey, wear an overcoat if cold??

Edited October 22, 2021 by alastairq

[doilum]

The ultimate weight save was to cut away the floor pan and bottom 12" of the body, drop it on a space frame with a BDA and Hewland in the back. The small garage that serviced dad's vivas also had a contract with a local chemical company which included the MD's toys. In this case a modsport Skoda. This was of course a pure race car although I always thought it might be fun on the road !

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, doilum said:

The ultimate weight save was to cut away the floor pan and bottom 12" of the body, drop it on a space frame with a BDA and Hewland in the back. The small garage that serviced dad's vivas also had a contract with a local chemical company which included the MD's toys. In this case a modsport Skoda. This was of course a pure race car although I always thought it might be fun on the road !

One of the reasons we stopped racing a Mini in Special Saloon class was because Gomshall Garage rolled out a space framed fibreglass bodied BDA engined racer…..it pi55ed all over every other Mini for obvious reasons but kept within the letter of the rules but not the spirit….so we went single seaters after that.

[PhilJ W]

Some interesting prototypes.

 

[great central]

Saw this beside Vauxhall bridge in Yarmouth earlier, presumably under restoration, not quite original wheels though. Long time since I've seen one.

 

[PhilJ W]

Mk. III Zodiac, the first 100mph production Ford.

[MrWolf]

Looks like one of the 1980s custom jobs. If it is being restored, I hope that the owner has all the interior and exterior trim. Unfortunately in my experience, custom cars that are unfinished or needing welding are only one step away from parts cars, rarely are they restorable because so much has been altered or simply thrown away.

[alastairq]

On the topic of 'wheels', often, I have found, the fitment of gucci wheels is a far cheaper option [certainly, ''for the time being?''] than trying to source and equip original wheels.

I have often argued against the fitting of modern minilite-look wheels to old cars [when they were a very expensive option back in the day?]....yet I have a set myself [not bought, but came with the car].....I have found that these types of alloy wheel are actually the cheapest option out there...The better looking/more appropriate wheels being priced in the arm& leg category...and at my age I need all my arms & legs, otherwise I'd never get myself up of the ground from underneath my motors...

 

[boxbrownie]

11 hours ago, great central said:

Saw this beside Vauxhall bridge in Yarmouth earlier, presumably under restoration, not quite original wheels though. Long time since I've seen one.

 

That looks exactly like our garden shed (the shed…not the Zodie) I painted blue and white when I was about 10……stayed that colour until it fell apart……..

[boxbrownie]

36 minutes ago, alastairq said:

On the topic of 'wheels', often, I have found, the fitment of gucci wheels is a far cheaper option [certainly, ''for the time being?''] than trying to source and equip original wheels.

I have often argued against the fitting of modern minilite-look wheels to old cars [when they were a very expensive option back in the day?]....yet I have a set myself [not bought, but came with the car].....I have found that these types of alloy wheel are actually the cheapest option out there...The better looking/more appropriate wheels being priced in the arm& leg category...and at my age I need all my arms & legs, otherwise I'd never get myself up of the ground from underneath my motors...

 

The best thing about the Minilite design is it is so easy to clean, no nasty sharp edges or hidden holes……classic stuff, personally I think they look good on almost anything….almost.

[alastairq]

I seem to recall, back in the late 60's/early 70's, that Wolfies and Revolutions were the 'thing to have?'

Cosmics were a bit naff, in my view.

 

Then there was the poverty option of Rostyles?

 

Or, Wellers? Anyone remember Wellers?

 

Anyone go to banded steels, with the reinforcing supports..bits of strip welded between rim & centre?

[MJI]

I had wellers on my Sunbeam