For those interested in old cars.

[Dunsignalling]

According to the howmanyleft website, there were fifty Wolseley 6/90s licensed and another 14 SORNed as of the fourth quarter of 2020.

 

ISTR seeing one at a steam fair or similar gathering about 5 years ago, but they aren't thick on the ground.

 

John

Edited June 27, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[MrWolf]

ISTR that the Wolseley may have shared some body panels with the Riley Pathfinder or Riley Two Point Six. 

I know from working on them that the only interchangeable panels between the MG Magnette ZA/ZB  and the similar looking Wolseley 4/44 were the front doors and boot lid.

Earlier the Nuffield Organisation had made full use of key parts, using the Morris Eight series E body tub for the Wolseley Eight and MG YA/YB.

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Back to Wolseleys, when did you last see a 6/90 in the UK? 

 

I nearly purchased  a Wolseley 6/90 in about 1967. The only reason I didn't was as a newly passed 19 year old driver I couldn't afford the insurance.

[PatB]

15 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Seriously though, I have only ever seen one 6/90, it was rotting away in a Leicestershire hedge along with an A40 Devon. Both cars were only really visible in winter even in the late 1970s. 

Back in the late 70s/early 80s there was a house near Taunton with a large collection of early 50s Wolseleys (amongst other things) quietly rusting into the ground around it. Also visible from the road were a Standard 8, and one of those rounded caravans that used to appear on the cover of summer issues of Practical Motorist c1955. Peering through the hedge that surrounded the rest of the property revealed some Mk1 Ford's, and other stuff I can't now remember, sitting amongst trees and in shades of rust brown and moss green. It all seemed impossibly ancient at the time. It feels very odd to think that a car built on the day I squinted through that hedge is now ~10 years older than anything I could see was then. 

[Dunsignalling]

36 minutes ago, PatB said:

Back in the late 70s/early 80s there was a house near Taunton with a large collection of early 50s Wolseleys (amongst other things) quietly rusting into the ground around it. Also visible from the road were a Standard 8, and one of those rounded caravans that used to appear on the cover of summer issues of Practical Motorist c1955. Peering through the hedge that surrounded the rest of the property revealed some Mk1 Ford's, and other stuff I can't now remember, sitting amongst trees and in shades of rust brown and moss green. It all seemed impossibly ancient at the time. It feels very odd to think that a car built on the day I squinted through that hedge is now ~10 years older than anything I could see was then. 

If it's the one I'm thinking of, out near Monkton Heathfield, with the iron gates and high railings, I go past it most weeks and it's been cleared out, but only in the past year or two.

 

John

[PatB]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

If it's the one I'm thinking of, out near Monkton Heathfield, with the iron gates and high railings, I go past it most weeks and it's been cleared out, but only in the past year or two.

 

John

I think I've heard of that one, but this wasn't it. This one was just on the Taunton side of Kingston St Mary. I'm not sure when it got cleared, but some time in the early to mid 90s seems likely. 

[Rugd1022]

A set of four 4''x10'' '60s JA Pearce alloys for sale on ebay....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114869730503?hash=item1abec4fcc7%3Ag%3ARXsAAOSws41g2ZkD&LH_ItemCondition=3000

 

Always liked the look of these.

[pH]

I've said that the summer weather brings out the classic convertibles. Here's another one from this afternoon:

 

 

A Buick convertible from about 1938/9.

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 hours ago, pH said:

I've said that the summer weather brings out the classic convertibles. Here's another one from this afternoon:

 

 

A Buick convertible from about 1938/9.

 

How have we gone from that to the uninteresting shapeless blobs we see nowadays?

Do car designers/stylists undergo an passion/emotion by-pass when starting their careers?

 

Mike.

[Dunsignalling]

15 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

How have we gone from that to the uninteresting shapeless blobs we see nowadays?

Do car designers/stylists undergo an passion/emotion by-pass when starting their careers?

 

Mike.

The short answer to your first question is efficiency and ergonomics.

 

My personal answer to your second one would be to ban all badges from all cars so that designers would have to make their creations instantly identifiable without one.

 

Aside from RR and Bentley (and perhaps Audi) grilles, I can only think of one current model that would get away with that on styling alone, the Porsche 911. I would have included Aston Martin, but their distinctive front ceased to be exclusive during the period Ford owned the company.

 

John

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

How have we gone from that to the uninteresting shapeless blobs we see nowadays?

Do car designers/stylists undergo an passion/emotion by-pass when starting their careers?

 

Mike.

Most modern car designs are created with the aid of a computer and those computers use the same software.

[Hobby]

If you look at photos of 20s and 30s cars they all looked same-ish, the 50s were similar, as were other decades, obviously there are exceptions, but for the main bread and butter cars they didn't want to stand out from the crowd. All that's changed is that aerodynamics have taken over and there's not a lot you can do to stand out, same as when you had two running boards, two big headlights and a big grill up front! Bring back the 70s designers, they knew how to design something different for the bread and butter cars even if the manufacturers made a pigs ear of making them!

[MrWolf]

You could say the same thing about 1950s car design as 1970s, they didn't let things such as the cost of chrome plating get in the way of designing.

In the early days, much of the design was restricted by the available methods, materials and traditional coach builders style. 

Designers were trained artists though and the heads of departments had come up through the ranks. 

The bland styling we have suffered the last thirty years or so is a result of production parameters, safety / type approval demands / designers being computer operators, not artists and probably most of all, the need to keep accounts happy when you are competing against cars built on third world wages elsewhere.

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

A set of four 4''x10'' '60s JA Pearce alloys for sale on ebay....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114869730503?hash=item1abec4fcc7%3Ag%3ARXsAAOSws41g2ZkD&LH_ItemCondition=3000

 

Always liked the look of these.

And a set of Cavallinos…….we used to race on those!

[Oldddudders]

11 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 the need to keep accounts happy when you are competing against cars built on third world wages elsewhere.

I was a little taken aback to discover this morning that the new Citroën DS9, starting price over £40k, is being built in China.....

[Guest]

For those who like their old cars brand new you can again buy a Lada Niva in the UK

 

[MJI]

Two cars outside last night, a Kia and a Ford, both crossovers, cars styled a bit like off roaders.

 

The badges were different!

 

The Ford owner (Mobility) had an Audi previously and he asked if I liked it, I said I didn't realise he had a new one (prior to that X1).

 

What was weird was that the Kia was almost as tall as my real off roader. (Product of Solihul)

[alastairq]

Form follows function! 

 

[S@d the computers, soulless spawn o the devil, bring back the biro, I say!!}

 

Really..FFF can be seen, for example, in what most folk call the  Lotus Seven?  Which seems to be considered to be the granddaddy of all kit cars?

Well, the cigar tube bodystyle was being used long before Colin Chapman go the idea!   [Where did he get his ideas from, I ask??}

 

A long, thin box that covered engine, driver, and back end.  The only significant area of individuality being probably, the nose cones? [Different makes or builds, using slightly different nosecone shapes....which were all intended [design being reduced to back of fag packet stuff?]...to simply guide cool air into the radiator?  }

 

To be fair, most pre & post WW2 sporty cars had very similar body tubs behind the windscreens....In fact, it was a case of, a wood or metal tube frame, to encompass the seats, literally an open topped box. Couple of mudguards either side, and fuel tank [a box?] strapped to the back, spare wheels mounted behind?   All very functional.

All that was really needed for appearance's sake, was, a sense of proportion???

[alastairq]

I do like the idea of a LHD new Niva......very much......but 12 grand is still out of my price range.

 

[I wonder why the website implies that it only has a diff lock on LHD cars?]

 

The diff lock, BTW, simply gives the Niva positive 4wd......like the Deafender....it is not a magic go-anywhere button/knob.....because for normal [grippy surface] driving the permanent 4wd [as it seems to be called, not strictly accurate though]  has a differential in the transfer box. This is the diff that is locked....to give proper 4wd.

 

My 4Trak doesn't have permanent 4wd [unless it is busted].....simply 2wd, or 4wd...As is my Suzuki GV...Thus , engaging 4wd in either of these two gives me the same , identical , drive, as  the Niva or Deafender, with their [inter axle] diff locked.

The Niva/ Deafender system is probably cheaper to produce, and probably involves fewer parts [especially controls?]

 

I used to dislike the Deafender diff lock system.....since one moved the stubby lever sideways, but didn't always get what one wanted.

 

Getting it to unlock following a bit of wind-up was a pain as well.....needing a straight line reverse to unwind things first.  Interesting with a trailer on the back, since to unwind, one must not move the steering wheel from straight-ahead......otherwise one is merely winding things up again. Of course, one could be brutal, but that isn't demonstrating vehicle sympathy......which is important if one wishes to actually get to one's destination? [Something forgotten by a lot of drivers,methinks?]

With a trailer on the back,  to unwind wind-up one should reverse  with steering dead straight, until the trailer has jackknifed [but not hit one's  rear bumper...yet]..then pull forwards, straightly..then repeat the reverse until the above occurs....and repeat until the transmission has acquired a bit of play in it [and the diff lock warning light has extinguished]

Most novice drivers simply get their hair off at this point!

[alastairq]

I should add....both the 4Trak and the Suzuki GV [earlier version] have systems to avoid having the front wheels twirling all the underneath twirly bits whilst in 2wd.

The 4Trak has locking [or rather, lockabel, or unlockable] front hubs....manual or automatic [which differs only in the=at the driver might have to get out of the vehicle first]..  Mine has auto hubs.....which take a bit of fiddling to 'unlock' when reverting to 2wd....a bit of back & forth.....so to speak. Otherwise 2wd delivers quite a bit of whining from the rotating front final drive...and propshaft.

Sometimes these [weak] auto hubs fail...so 4wd would still be unobtainable, which is a pain...and 40 quid a side to get new manual hubs!

Suzuki used a different system to stop the front wheels driving the propshafts in 2wd.. They used a type of clutch on the front diff, which was vacuum operated. There is a small vacuum pump under the front bumper..when 4wd is engaged at the lever, this closes a switch, which operates the vacuum pump, which sucks the little clutch closed, thus linking front hubs to the transfer box. If this pump fails, or there's a vacuum leak,then the front axle gets its drive only intermittently.

A lot of owners get this fault, and spend hundreds paying a garage to find the fault, and buy brand new suzuki parts to fix it.

Usually the fault is a tiny bit of 'corrosion' on a metal fitting inside the pump body itself. remove pump [4 bolts] undo pipes[rubber] undo plug[plastic] open pump body [turned over tags], then rub the offending union with a bit of emery [the other one is plastic]....reassemble, connect up, and off you go.

Job done, 200 quid still in the [parents?] bank.   Youtube shows you how.   but all would not be lost even if in the boonies....simply get a few meters of the rubber vacuum hose, and a small hand operated vacuum pump....lead hose inside vehicle, attach to hand pump, and when 4wd is engaged, suck on the  pump to sort the front axle.....suck on pump as & when necessary!   RAnge Rover and Evoke drivers press a button or twizzle a knob....then they're stuffed if it doesn't work! CAn't suck on a rubber pipe to get themselves out of the desert, can they??

Who needs technology? Honestly!

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, alastairq said:

I do like the idea of a LHD new Niva......very much......but 12 grand is still out of my price range.

It’s £12k plus vat and approval paperwork. It’s more like £18k to drive it away. A bit less if you pay the bare £12k and do the legwork yourself.

[alastairq]

1 minute ago, 30801 said:

A bit less if you pay the bare £12k and do the legwork yourself.

 That was what I was thinking....I'm happy to do leg work if it saves a few grand?  [The difference between London prices and East Yorkshire prices?}

[boxbrownie]

3 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 That was what I was thinking....I'm happy to do leg work if it saves a few grand?  [The difference between London prices and East Yorkshire prices?}

Be wary though, there might be hardware issues to contend with (I have not seen the full imported spec) but possibly if it’s basically a “raw import” it will need RHD headlamps, Speedo graphic conversion, possibly rear fog lamp.

 

But regardless it’s a nice little real 4X4 without the bells and whistles.

[big jim]

If you really want a niva and don’t mind doing a bit of ‘cosmetic leg work’ a driver in work has one of the Brazilian niva’s (60 plate iirc) that he keeps saying he’s going to sell, it’s got a few rust patches in places but I think it came with them as standard from

new 

[MJI]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

I should add....both the 4Trak and the Suzuki GV [earlier version] have systems to avoid having the front wheels twirling all the underneath twirly bits whilst in 2wd.

The 4Trak has locking [or rather, lockabel, or unlockable] front hubs....manual or automatic [which differs only in the=at the driver might have to get out of the vehicle first]..  Mine has auto hubs.....which take a bit of fiddling to 'unlock' when reverting to 2wd....a bit of back & forth.....so to speak. Otherwise 2wd delivers quite a bit of whining from the rotating front final drive...and propshaft.

Sometimes these [weak] auto hubs fail...so 4wd would still be unobtainable, which is a pain...and 40 quid a side to get new manual hubs!

Suzuki used a different system to stop the front wheels driving the propshafts in 2wd.. They used a type of clutch on the front diff, which was vacuum operated. There is a small vacuum pump under the front bumper..when 4wd is engaged at the lever, this closes a switch, which operates the vacuum pump, which sucks the little clutch closed, thus linking front hubs to the transfer box. If this pump fails, or there's a vacuum leak,then the front axle gets its drive only intermittently.

A lot of owners get this fault, and spend hundreds paying a garage to find the fault, and buy brand new suzuki parts to fix it.

Usually the fault is a tiny bit of 'corrosion' on a metal fitting inside the pump body itself. remove pump [4 bolts] undo pipes[rubber] undo plug[plastic] open pump body [turned over tags], then rub the offending union with a bit of emery [the other one is plastic]....reassemble, connect up, and off you go.

Job done, 200 quid still in the [parents?] bank.   Youtube shows you how.   but all would not be lost even if in the boonies....simply get a few meters of the rubber vacuum hose, and a small hand operated vacuum pump....lead hose inside vehicle, attach to hand pump, and when 4wd is engaged, suck on the  pump to sort the front axle.....suck on pump as & when necessary!   RAnge Rover and Evoke drivers press a button or twizzle a knob....then they're stuffed if it doesn't work! CAn't suck on a rubber pipe to get themselves out of the desert, can they??

Who needs technology? Honestly!

 

You do realise that Evokes get the pee taken out of them? The least rude thing is Freelander Coupe

 

The Range Rover 1/Defender/Disco 1, many Disco 2 permanent 4WD with locking diffs to work really well. On poor surfaces just being 4WD is good enough where as a part time system would need to go full on.

 

The only thing is to make sure you engage it a few times a year to keep it moving.