For those interested in old cars.

[Hobby]

I think it was more that the marina was set up for sales of old school and allegro was supposed to be cutting edge, rwd vs fwd. I've heard the fleet reason before but my dad's company's fleet was Cambridge then Maxis followed by Allegros, they never had Marinas so I have my doubts it was so clear cut. 

[MrWolf]

48 minutes ago, Hobby said:

A better example would be the Marina and Allegro.

 

I'm not so sure about that. The Marina was intended to be a replacement for the rear wheel drive range, Farina Oxford and the Minor. The Allegro was intended to replace the 1100 / 1300 FWD cars. 

But a very confusing range. The A40 Farina soldiered on until 1967,as did the van version of the A35 and the van version of the A50/55 kept on going until 1972.

It all gets a bit complicated!

[PhilJ W]

1 minute ago, MrWolf said:

 

I'm not so sure about that. The Marina was intended to be a replacement for the rear wheel drive range, Farina Oxford and the Minor. The Allegro was intended to replace the 1100 / 1300 FWD cars. 

But a very confusing range. The A40 Farina soldiered on until 1967,as did the van version of the A35 and the van version of the A50/55 kept on going until 1972.

It all gets a bit complicated!

The van version of the A35 was replaced by a re-badged Minor van which itself carried on a few years after car production ceased, mainly at the behest of the GPO. 

[MrWolf]

Spot of the day has to be this whilst we were out on two wheels. 

 

 

[MrWolf]

1 minute ago, PhilJ W said:

The van version of the A35 was replaced by a re-badged Minor van which itself carried on a few years after car production ceased, mainly at the behest of the GPO. 

 

I remember the Austin badged minor van complete with "crinkly" grille slats and a plastic Austin badge where the flying cow should be.

[BernardTPM]

10 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

the van version of the A50/55 kept on going until 1972.

It all gets a bit complicated!

especially as it was called the A60 by then (as they'd updated the engine) despite the outdated body.

 

The Marina van looked SO modern by comparison when it arrived in 1972.

[MJI]

Marina, Allegro, Cortina

 

No thanks I want an Avenger

[PatB]

4 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

especially as it was called the A60 by then (as they'd updated the engine) despite the outdated body.

 

The Marina van looked SO modern by comparison when it arrived in 1972.

And was also a year or two later than the saloon in being Italicised. 

[MrWolf]

29 minutes ago, PatB said:

And was also a year or two later than the saloon in being Italicised. 

The vans lasted until 1984 or so, a friend of mine has one on an A registration.

[Enterprisingwestern]

10 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

The Marina van looked SO modern by comparison when it arrived in 1972.

 

But so much smaller in the passenger and load compartments, a lot firmer less compliant ride combined with uncomfortable seats and with an engine that had to be thrashed in comparison.

Apart from the reverse gear issue, I thought the A60 vans we had were the the best.

 

Mike.

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

 

A better example would be the Marina and Allegro.

Badge loyalty........Morris Marina.....Austin Allegro.......seen as slightly differing markets, same segment though.

[boxbrownie]

10 hours ago, MJI said:

Marina, Allegro, Cortina

 

No thanks I want an Avenger

I bet you do......

[boxbrownie]

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

The vans lasted until 1984 or so, a friend of mine has one on an A registration.

Father in Law used to drive the Viva Vans and the last ones he had before retirement (GPO) were the Marina/Ital Vans, he hated the Marinas and loved the Vivas.......

[Hobby]

44 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Badge loyalty........Morris Marina.....Austin Allegro.......seen as slightly differing markets, same segment though.

 

Yes, but... The original post which started this was the P6 vs Triumph 2000 which when launched were two different companies. In this case the cars were from the same manufacturer. The Marina was intended to be a Cortina competitor but was too small and went on far too long. Size wise it was pretty much the same as the Allegro inside and even had a similar engine range so they ended up taking sales off each other. Brand loyalty is fine and can work well, for example the MG versions of the AR cars, or Austin and Morris versions of the same car, but the Marina ended up as an in between car not fitting anywhere and taking sales from its own manufacturers other products. 

[boxbrownie]

13 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Yes, but... The original post which started this was the P6 vs Triumph 2000 which when launched were two different companies. In this case the cars were from the same manufacturer. The Marina was intended to be a Cortina competitor but was too small and went on far too long. Size wise it was pretty much the same as the Allegro inside and even had a similar engine range so they ended up taking sales off each other. Brand loyalty is fine and can work well, for example the MG versions of the AR cars, or Austin and Morris versions of the same car, but the Marina ended up as an in between car not fitting anywhere and taking sales from its own manufacturers other products. 

Yes exactly.....the Rover and Triumph were two competing companies, but Marina and Allegro were that same company competing in the same segment but aimed at slightly different customer expectations/aspirations.

 

Regardless of that I always rather liked the Allegro as being different in a rather clever way, where as the Marina/Avenger (had to get that in ) were so boring.

 

Marina still sold over one million vehicles in its ten years, three quarters of that in the U.K., it was always about half the sale success of the Cortina, which was no surprise with the US base companies ease with which it could competitively price their vehicles.

Edited April 4, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Hobby]

17 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

 the Cortina, which was no surprise with the US base companies ease with which it could competitively price their vehicles.

 

And who weren't stupid enough to design and develop and manufacture two very different models for the same segment. The costs of producing one model is high enough, to do two? Madness.

 

If they'd had the confidence they could have badge engineered the Maxi, there were designs for a booted version and even an estate would have been possible and it was originally designed to take a 1300cc engine. The later Maestro/Montego range (1300cc up to 2000cc) showed what could have happened, though again the overall designs were compromised...

Edited April 4, 2021 by Hobby

[MrWolf]

Avengers? Boring? 

 

 

 

 

[Hobby]

I always though the Marina 2 door to be an ugly looking thing, but that Avenger has now taken it's place!

[MrWolf]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

I bet you do......

 

I think that is probably the go-faster Avenger GLS ...

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Avengers? Boring? 

 

 

 

 

Yes, but the Tiger was a lovely iteration of the vehicle.......Holbay head/twin webers (good fuel consumption ) wasn’t it, or was it just the competition departments thing?

[MJI]

7 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Yes, but the Tiger was a lovely iteration of the vehicle.......Holbay head/twin webers (good fuel consumption ) wasn’t it, or was it just the competition departments thing?

 

Pretty sure not Holbay.

 

The original was a 1500 but the 1600 was a modern take of the traditional push rod engine.

 

1300 was a stroked 1250, and 1600 a bored and stroked 1500.

 

Short stroke, large valves, 8 port head, short push rods and high mounted cam. 1600 was 100bhp but I have seen ones with 150bhp at wheels.

 

Was all coil suspension.

 

Also there were 2 x 2.2 Estates

[MrWolf]

I can remember seeing 2 door Avengers (and Marinas) with a Starsky & Hutch paint job, even seen one with the yellow red and blue Main Force Police paint job from Mad Max.

None were as bizarre or unconvincing as a Starsky & Hutch 1974 Datsun 100A though!

[PatB]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

I always though the Marina 2 door to be an ugly looking thing, but that Avenger has now taken it's place!

Problem with the 2 door Marina is the doors are too short and the roof too high. Presumably the latter was to retain reasonable headroom for rear seat passengers but I'm not sure about the doors. Are they common to the 4 door? It seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past BL. 

[steve1]

Had 2 Avengers. A dust coloured 1250 and a dark met green 1500. The 1250 was my first car. Easy to drive and work on. Wouldn’t say no to a Tiger now if someone offered me one.

 

steve

[MrWolf]

I remember my dad having an Avenger 1500DL estate in a colour named prairie yellow (beige!!) It served us well enough for about two years but was suffering from front chassis leg rust. It got sideswiped by a lorry towing a rock crusher out of Goodwin Barsby's in Leicester and came to a pretty spectacular end.