For those interested in old cars.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Nothing faster than a diesel Astra gas van.

 

Mike.

[5 C]

I've shared this before on here, but this is probably the favourite of all my cars from my Vauxhall career. Slightly modified but still going strong 30 years later, I was the first driver of this car. Ridiculously quick and plenty of torque steer which made it a very entertaining drive. It even survived the attention of the local car thieves. 

 

I was 24 years old, the insurance and fuel were all paid for. What wasn't to like? I'd have one in a heartbeat.

 

 

[peanuts]

7 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I had driven both the Golf GTI and the Escort XR3i and although the Astra was a little tinny in comparison with the Golf, it handled much better, the rear end of the Golf would break away and hop off line when pushed hard. The Ford just felt like a rowing boat. It was definitely slower than the Astra. The only thing that really came close was the 1.9GTi version of the Peugeot 205. That was a surprisingly good hot hatch. 

 

I suppose that a Renault 5 Gordini Turbo is cheating?

You never got to play in the Strada Abarth 130 tc then seriousley fast sounded gorgeous with the twin 40s as standard handling was "interesting " if pushed to hard out of a corner with the tourquesteer just a shame about the build quality 

[alastairq]

At one time, I had two Alfa 33s.........................Green cloverleaf.......2nd one, ex motorshow car [not sure which motorshow? Could have been the WI ?]

 

Both absolute looneytunes.

[peanuts]

A bit of rover v8 porn 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157800213581781&id=619631780

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

At one time, I had two Alfa 33s.........................Green cloverleaf.......2nd one, ex motorshow car [not sure which motorshow? Could have been the WI ?]

 

Both absolute looneytunes.

We had a Giulietta (1980’s model) it’s had a two litre DHC twin 40 dellorto engine and rear mounted gearbox/diff........bought at auction at 18 months old and when I got home and did the usual investigation work found it was owned by the chairman of the Alfa owners club, racing red and in the best condition I’ve ever bought from auction, totally spotless.......a lovely car if a little heavy but handled like a dream and sounded gorgeous.

[alastairq]

My eldest lad became an Alfa stalwart.

As a youngster he was keen on the What Car tables, with their facts & figures. [Braggin' tables?]

Anyway, the 2nd 33 we had, sported fuel injection via what looked to be, Weber throttle bodies? [First one was on carbs, a pair of downdraught Weber's each side, one choke per cylinder. Often  unheard of in production family cars of the era?  So easy & cheap to tune too....as my friendly rolling road expert {of the loooong screwdriver brigade, no computery things there}.....said, how high a fuel consumption can we afford?]. Anyway, according to WhatCar, the injected 1700 flat twin 33 Alfa had one of the highest power-to-weight ratios of any production car listed....beating many of the Porsche stable! Not many shopping cars could boast  around 130 bhp at ear-splitting RPMs from a flat 4, 1700cc motor?  At 70mph, 2nd gear still had useable revs.  It was my then-wife's unwindmobile [after a hard day at work]...

I often noted that the biggest mistake Alfa made with the 33 was to fit passenger seats....Not a good idea to have one's mouth open when the wife was driving, and starting to overtake  [screams were forced back down one's throat, to appear out of one's backside]....At the time, my personal motors ranged from a Renault 4 to a Skoda 120 Estelle....which I used for classic trialling [and had someone's spare rally 130 motor up its chuff]...Then a good friend donated to me, free & gratis, the remains of a Cannon trials car, which I re-built and road registered, and which initiated my 2nd divorce. I still have the remains of it, follows me about through different homes.....

Edited March 7, 2021 by alastairq

[Oldddudders]

There were other family cars with decent engines in that era. The Peugeot 405 Mi16 and Citroën BX 16v shared a fuel-injected 1.9 litre 160 bhp engine, which was extremely tractable as well as punchy. 

[boxbrownie]

48 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

There were other family cars with decent engines in that era. The Peugeot 405 Mi16 and Citroën BX 16v shared a fuel-injected 1.9 litre 160 bhp engine, which was extremely tractable as well as punchy. 

Good engine which came wrapped in a tissue paper body 

 

Power to weight of those cars was very good, we have had several BX and we loved them, and the diesel turbos were real early days diesel hot hatches, we passed our last in on to our daughter when she started Agricultural college....she really did’nt want our “old mans car” until she started driving it......she loved it as she could get her burly farmer’s sons in it and a load of horse/pig feed in the boot as well without it scrapping along the deck 

Edited March 7, 2021 by boxbrownie

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, peanuts said:

A bit of rover v8 porn 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10157800213581781&id=619631780

Link doesn't work?

[Kickstart]

6 hours ago, alastairq said:

At one time, I had two Alfa 33s.........................Green cloverleaf.......2nd one, ex motorshow car [not sure which motorshow? Could have been the WI ?]

 

Both absolute looneytunes.

Had 3 Alfa 33s over the years. Just sold 2 a couple of months ago (finally accepted I wasn’t going to get around to sorting them)

 

First was a series 2 Sportwagon 1.7. So carbed (sone series 2 were fuel injected , but not uk market). The 2nd was a 16v P4 (bought to replace a 75 TS) . Lovely car to drive / thrash, just no fun for driving sensibly! 137hp claimed, with 1200kg. Revved well, acceptable fuel, pretty reliable, comfy Ricaro seats, etc. And with 4wd was just about impossible to spin the wheels (although the clutch might not appreciate attempts to do so!). Would love a similar car again , but pretty much zero chance anything with that much power and 4wd would be that light. 3rd was a LHD 1.3 series 3 I bought while working in Belgium. Despite being a series 3 (last shape) it was basic with 2 twin choke carbs, manual rack, etc. This was 86hp, but light (was lighter than a mk1 MX5). Quite fun despite being basic. Far more refined engine than the P4 , and if cruising at 130kmh / 4000+rpm it gave 40mpg (less said about short journeys around town the better - accelerator pump carbs don’t help there).

 

Absolutely love 33s. Have an MX5 NC these days as about the nearest normal road car in similar fun to drive.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[alastairq]

I always considered the 33 to be the last of the real Alfas...[also, the 75]...

After that, they really got absorbed by the FIAT group good & proper.

 

There seemed to be a ''something'' about the genuine Alfas that other makes seemed to lack. {I liked the badge, with the snake eating the baby...}

 

Somehow the Alfas seemed to be natural performers, whereas the likes of Ford or Peugeot [or BMW?] have had to be urged on with a whip to get them into the performance stakes...

The only Peugeot I feel that 'performed' as a proper driving car was the Peugeot 106 Rallye. There was only one way to drive one of those, nothing else was allowed, or possible.

Yet the 205GTi which we also had 'on-the-plot,' although a fast car, was far too civilised and compromised to be purely a 'driver's' car. One could actually go shopping at Tesco's in one of those....I tried that trick in the 106 Rallye and kept overshooting parking spaces...

 

Proper driver's cars are those that frequently detach your retinas.

Anything else is far too civilised.

 

[Cooper 1071S I once owned briefly did that, and also turned one's intestines to jelly. Proper drivers car, that!]

[Jol Wilkinson]

Peugeot produced some very nice hot hatches in the 80s and 90s.

 

The Peugeot 306 Rallye was regarded as a very fine but underrated drivers car.

 

The 106 GTi was also very nice.

 

I saw this example at a small local classic get together in 2018. It was in great condition but the owner couldn't be tempted to consider swapping it for my MGB.

 

[Northmoor]

19 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I had driven both the Golf GTI and the Escort XR3i and although the Astra was a little tinny in comparison with the Golf, it handled much better, the rear end of the Golf would break away and hop off line when pushed hard. The Ford just felt like a rowing boat. It was definitely slower than the Astra. The only thing that really came close was the 1.9GTi version of the Peugeot 205. That was a surprisingly good hot hatch. 

 

I suppose that a Renault 5 Gordini Turbo is cheating?

In the late 80s, Car magazine did a road test that remains etched in my memory.  They drove 5000 miles in a week in a Lotus Esprit S3 and a Pug 1.9GTi.  Their conclusion was that 99% of the time and for 99% of drivers, it was really very  difficult to justify the Lotus over the Peugeot.  Even over a fast twisty road in Scotland where they expected the Esprit to show its advantages, the driver found their colleague in the GTi remained close behind the whole time.

 

On the track test, the Lotus was much quicker, especially on things like the (brutal to transmissions) 0-60 test.  But then they tried something different, revving to 2500rpm and dropping the clutch.  The GTi was 0.4s slower to sixty; doing the same in the Lotus added about 2s to the best time.  You had to drive it hard or it just didn't really work.

 

Pug GTis have quadrupled in price in just a few years and they are surely terrific fun.  I'd still love an Esprit though, even if I probably don't have a fraction of the talent required to get the best from it, just because.....

Edited March 7, 2021 by Northmoor

[w124bob]

Citroen 2CV and Dyane humour and comedy handling! Note the racing mustache.

Edited March 7, 2021 by w124bob

[Kickstart]

4 hours ago, alastairq said:

I always considered the 33 to be the last of the real Alfas...[also, the 75]...

After that, they really got absorbed by the FIAT group good & proper.

 

There seemed to be a ''something'' about the genuine Alfas that other makes seemed to lack. {I liked the badge, with the snake eating the baby...}

 

Somehow the Alfas seemed to be natural performers, whereas the likes of Ford or Peugeot [or BMW?] have had to be urged on with a whip to get them into the performance stakes...

 

The boxer engines encouraged you, as did the cars in general. 

 

The 75 TS engine was also fun (and despite its reputation, the fear change wasn’t bad)

 

The 16v TS engines were also pretty good, and encouraging. The 2.2 engine I have only driven in a Brera and it did nothing for me. All torque and no fun.

 

But then I like small 2 stroke bikes.

 

3 hours ago, Northmoor said:

 

Pug GTis have quadrupled in price in just a few years and they are surely terrific fun.  I'd still love an Esprit though, even if I probably don't have a fraction of the talent required to get the best from it, just because.....

There is a guy on YouTube doing a series of videos restoring an S2 Esprit. Soup Classic Cars. Well worth watching.

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

https://youtube.com/c/GeorgeKarellas

[MrWolf]

Seeing the picture of the 2CV with a donkey in the back reminds me of something that I helped with years ago.

You have acquired, free of charge, the six cylinder engine, gearbox, wheels and various other bits from one of these.

 

 

You don't have a van and the location of the rare parts is being demolished. 

All you have is one of these:

 

 

So you remove the back seat and slide the engine in there on a couple of planks, everything else going in the boot.

You then drive the six miles home very carefully.

 

So the old Renault 12 gets my vote for unappreciated car.

 

[alastairq]

Also incarnated in other countries?

 

Truly a ''world car?''

 

I liked the hair do's as well.

[petethemole]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

Seeing the picture of the 2CV with a donkey in the back reminds me of something that I helped with years ago.

You have acquired, free of charge, the six cylinder engine, gearbox, wheels and various other bits from one of these.

 

 

You don't have a van and the location of the rare parts is being demolished. 

All you have is one of these:

 

 

So you remove the back seat and slide the engine in there on a couple of planks, everything else going in the boot.

You then drive the six miles home very carefully.

 

So the old Renault 12 gets my vote for unappreciated car.

 

Love the Vauxhall, I assume it's a Light Six.  Shouldn't the bonnet fluting be chromed?  My grandfather had one, a 14/6 with the earlier, squarer body and exposed spare wheels.  I think it was a '34.  I don't know if he had it from new but he had it pre-war and didn't scrap it until '64-'65.  It was kept on the road due to availability of parts in scrapyards and the skills of my uncle who was a skilled mechanic and a teacher, who worked in a garage during his holidays and ran a Daimler of similar vintage. Eventually something failed that couldn't be replaced.  It was replaced with a '38 model.

[MrWolf]

It's a 25HP Big Six, model G. The Light Six was the 14HP model latterly. The bonnet flutes should be chromed, but it's very difficult (and expensive!) to get it redone. I cheated with the DX14 touring saloon that I had and made some appliqué flutes from 0.5mm stainless sheet, bonded them to the bonnet sections and grille surround, then painted the panels. Quite a few people do that and a good number of unrestored cars turn up modified that way.

1938 was the last year of wooden frames Vauxhall's, the new 10, 12 and 14, Models H, I a d J had a monocoque body tub with a seperate front subframe carrying the engine, gearbox and Dubonnet IFS axle.

I also had an H type Ten, which for a small car of its time was very advanced. Synchromesh on the upper gears, IFS, hydraulic brakes and an overhead valve engine. Some rivals didn't catch up for twenty years. 

[MrWolf]

1934 Vauxhall ASY Light Six.

 

 

1937 Vauxhall DX 14 Six

 

 

1939-47 J type 14

 

 

1938-47 H type Ten Four.

 

 

The body tub of this model morphed into the 1948-51 4 cyl Wyvern and 6 cyl Velox. 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

9 hours ago, w124bob said:

Citroen 2CV and Dyane humour and comedy handling! Note the racing mustache.

 

The Dyane isn't anywhere near the limit, the door handles aren't scraping on the tarmac.

 

Mike.

[PhilJ W]

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

It's a 25HP Big Six, model G. The Light Six was the 14HP model latterly. The bonnet flutes should be chromed, but it's very difficult (and expensive!) to get it redone. I cheated with the DX14 touring saloon that I had and made some appliqué flutes from 0.5mm stainless sheet, bonded them to the bonnet sections and grille surround, then painted the panels. Quite a few people do that and a good number of unrestored cars turn up modified that way.

1938 was the last year of wooden frames Vauxhall's, the new 10, 12 and 14, Models H, I a d J had a monocoque body tub with a seperate front subframe carrying the engine, gearbox and Dubonnet IFS axle.

I also had an H type Ten, which for a small car of its time was very advanced. Synchromesh on the upper gears, IFS, hydraulic brakes and an overhead valve engine. Some rivals didn't catch up for twenty years. 

Is that a Ute parked behind it?

[MrWolf]

Yes, it's based on a mid thirties 14hp. Holden were originally coach builders and adapted Vauxhalls sent out as a chassis / cowl assembly, something that Vauxhall had done a lot of in their independent years. Postwar, Holden built their own chassis and created utilities, their own saloons and convertibles using Vauxhall parts until around 1960, despite having been a manufacturer in their own right since 1949.

[Nick C]

17 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Peugeot produced some very nice hot hatches in the 80s and 90s.

 

The Peugeot 306 Rallye was regarded as a very fine but underrated drivers car.

 

The 106 GTi was also very nice.

 

I did quite a few rallies in 106s, mostly 1.3 and 1.4 versions as the series we did had a 1400cc limit. They were quick and nimble, but very skittish, with a short wheelbase and very little weight at the back - often the larger, heavier cars woulds actually be faster as they were more stable so you could keep more speed through the corners - The Rover 25/MGZR turned out to be the best there...