For those interested in old cars.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

 

The only problem was the cost of tyres, which were Michelin only, but they lasted well. 

Ours had Vredenstein winter/snow tyres fitted all year around, gripped easily as well (if not better) than the Michelin ball bearing tyres, and obviously in the winter.......they were slightly wider, I think 145 or 155 possibly but a helluva lot cheaper.

[PhilJ W]

A lot of the cheaper brand names of tyres are owned by the 'big boys' such as Michelin. Pirelli, Dunlop and Firestone and when you compare them with the mother brand  they are identical not only in specification but down to the tread pattern. The only difference is the name on the sidewall.

[Phil Traxson]

22 hours ago, doilum said:

Were these the really mad, bad and dangerous ones with the Hillman Imp engine in the back? The Bug was much better than all the armchair experts claim. It could easily outrun all but exotic sports cars in the traffic light sprint to 30mph and held an easy 60mph on open A roads. Despite red lining between every gear change ( I had only just graduated from tuned Lambrettas) it never failed to start or return less than 45mpg. Side vision was poor and three quarter vision nil. The change in the law that forced me to fit an offside wing mirror probably saved a big accident. I only rolled it once and that was entirely my own fault. Far too fast, late braking in torrential rain I made the right turn outside my future in law's just on the spot where lorries leaving the quarry opposite dumped their mud on the road....

We picked up the big pieces of the wrecked offside front and took them home. Masking tape was used to create a Frankenstein jigsaw and Isopon's P40 glued it all back together. Once painted it was as good as new.  Sad thing is I cannot remember the reg number and have only one very poor photo, so if anyone recognises this late M reg example it would be good to hear.

They were the ones with the Imp engine in the back. Didn't find mine dangerous though, they were our family car for over 10 years and logged 12-15k miles per year. The second one I had was delivered on cross ply tyres (fitted by the previous owner ) and was awful handling until I changed them for the radials that Bond recommended. Bond did a recall on the few early ones that they originally sold fitted with cross plies because of poor handling.     

[Phil Traxson]

22 hours ago, doilum said:

Were these the really mad, bad and dangerous ones with the Hillman Imp engine in the back? The Bug was much better than all the armchair experts claim. It could easily outrun all but exotic sports cars in the traffic light sprint to 30mph and held an easy 60mph on open A roads. Despite red lining between every gear change ( I had only just graduated from tuned Lambrettas) it never failed to start or return less than 45mpg. Side vision was poor and three quarter vision nil. The change in the law that forced me to fit an offside wing mirror probably saved a big accident. I only rolled it once and that was entirely my own fault. Far too fast, late braking in torrential rain I made the right turn outside my future in law's just on the spot where lorries leaving the quarry opposite dumped their mud on the road....

We picked up the big pieces of the wrecked offside front and took them home. Masking tape was used to create a Frankenstein jigsaw and Isopon's P40 glued it all back together. Once painted it was as good as new.  Sad thing is I cannot remember the reg number and have only one very poor photo, so if anyone recognises this late M reg example it would be good to hear.

They were the ones with the Imp engine in the back. Didn't find mine dangerous though, they were our family car for over 10 years and logged 12-15k miles per year. The second one I had was delivered on cross ply tyres (fitted by the previous owner ) and was awful handling until I changed them for the radials that Bond recommended. Bond did a recall on the few early ones that they originally sold fitted with cross plies because of poor handling. They were very quick though, didn't like cross winds without a full passenger load though with no weight in the front end    

Edited February 28, 2021 by Phil Traxson
duplicate post can't delete

[MrWolf]

There's a couple of Bond 875s that have been sitting in a garden in a Leicestershire village since at least 1974 and have never moved. Up near York there's a van version in much the same condition.

[PhilJ W]

The problem with the Bond 875 was it used the worst part of the Hillman Imp, the engine.

[MrWolf]

The imp engine had two main faults. It was in a car that was aimed at the sort of people who need a car but aren't interested in cars. (Today that would be a Hyundai i10, Toyota Yaris etc.) 

It was thrown together in a factory by people who didn't give a **** that they weren't mechanically minded either.

Poor thing never stood a chance.

[doilum]

1 hour ago, Phil Traxson said:

They were the ones with the Imp engine in the back. Didn't find mine dangerous though, they were our family car for over 10 years and logged 12-15k miles per year. The second one I had was delivered on cross ply tyres (fitted by the previous owner ) and was awful handling until I changed them for the radials that Bond recommended. Bond did a recall on the few early ones that they originally sold fitted with cross plies because of poor handling.     

Almost sure the bug was on crossplies as per factory. They were quite fat on cosmic alloys at the rear. Someone out there will remember the rules for tyres on three wheelers.

[doilum]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

The problem with the Bond 875 was it used the worst part of the Hillman Imp, the engine.

I always thought the Imp engine was something quite special being ohc and alloy and based closely on the fabled Coventry Climax race engines. I understand there were production issues arising from a political decision to build the cars in Scotland. I was led to believe that the blocks were cast in Scotland, freighted to the Midlands for machining and returned north for assembly. Had the cars been built at Ryton as originally planned, they might have been more reliable and certainly profitable.

[MJI]

17 minutes ago, doilum said:

I always thought the Imp engine was something quite special being ohc and alloy and based closely on the fabled Coventry Climax race engines. I understand there were production issues arising from a political decision to build the cars in Scotland. I was led to believe that the blocks were cast in Scotland, freighted to the Midlands for machining and returned north for assembly. Had the cars been built at Ryton as originally planned, they might have been more reliable and certainly profitable.

 

Engine was OK but required good antifreeze.

 

I did swap one for a Rootes 1600 though!

[doilum]

Just now, MJI said:

 

Engine was OK but required good antifreeze.

 

I did swap one for a Rootes 1600 though!

Like all cars do today. Problem was they were marketed at non enthusiasts. Having a front mounted radiator didn't help either. Lessons to be learned from Fiat and Skoda in rear engine design.

[PatB]

I've always suspected that the Imp also suffered because it was released into a world unfamiliar with the care and feeding of all ally engines. Certainly all or partially aluminium engines existed prior to the Imp, but they tended to be in relatively exotic or luxurious machinery, cared for by specialists or enthusiasts and not the grease monkey at the local garage. Put the wrong, or worse no, anti-freeze in and it would die of terminal corrosion very quickly. 

[MrWolf]

How many people put £1 a gallon anti freeze in Imps from Patel's mega bargain mart thinking that they were saving money?

Killed a lot of FIATS, Renault 10s and Vauxhall VX4/90s too....

 

I had a SEAT Marbella (FIAT Panda) which had silted up so bad from head corrosion it blocked the fan sender in the radiator. I managed to save it with a little welding and remachining the head. You couldn't get another head because all Marbellas seemed to die of the same problems.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by MrWolf
PostScript!

[30368]

The Hilman Imp had many problems not least the negative camber on the front axle which took out many a tyre. Having said that I loved mine, being my second car and was such a modern vehicle after my Moggie 1000. My recollection was that most cars in the 1960's and 70's were trouble, simple to repair yes, but then you needed to so often!

 

Bought for my layout - the exact colour of my Imp.

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[MrWolf]

One of my friends had one when we were in the 6th form, brush painted navy blue. He'd sold me his 1964 Anglia that needed some welding for £25 to help finance it, because the scrapyard would only give him £25 if he drove it down there and it had no petrol in the tank.

He had a car full one afternoon and turned left rather sharp, the car kept going left until it hit the kerb, then went full right lock across the road before hitting the side of a house. The whole front end disappeared in a cloud of rust dust and that was the end of it. 

He replaced the Imp with an equally rusty FIAT 128 P3 with the strange coffin shaped rear lights. It went well, but you had to be careful opening the rear hatch because the roof had rotted away round the right hand hinge.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, PatB said:

I've always suspected that the Imp also suffered because it was released into a world unfamiliar with the care and feeding of all ally engines. Certainly all or partially aluminium engines existed prior to the Imp, but they tended to be in relatively exotic or luxurious machinery, cared for by specialists or enthusiasts and not the grease monkey at the local garage. Put the wrong, or worse no, anti-freeze in and it would die of terminal corrosion very quickly. 

The same engine was dire in the Sunbeam.  Cost me 100 quid then not long after 40 quid for a1600 went in

[MrWolf]

To be fair, Sunbeam had been forced to borrow other people's engines since about 1955. I rather liked the old Sunbeam-Talbot 90. It had quite a few unusual design features for its time.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, doilum said:

I always thought the Imp engine was something quite special being ohc and alloy and based closely on the fabled Coventry Climax race engines. I understand there were production issues arising from a political decision to build the cars in Scotland. I was led to believe that the blocks were cast in Scotland, freighted to the Midlands for machining and returned north for assembly. Had the cars been built at Ryton as originally planned, they might have been more reliable and certainly profitable.

They cocked it up for road use though, going through several iterations with cast in and wet liners, but if properly built and tuned they certainly gave us a run for our money in Super Saloon racing, we had our 1293 super duper A series and they were in the class below at under 1 litre........like having a mad wasp chasing us.

[doilum]

I always fancied the Clan Crusader.

[MrWolf]

I think that was the beginning of the problem, not building it the way that Coventry Climax would because it was destined to power a shopping trolley. Machined out and Wells rings fitted the imp engine was a different animal. They also powered a few racing sidecar outfits. It was a brave step that Hillman took which had every chance of being a world beater, if....

[boxbrownie]

28 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

To be fair, Sunbeam had been forced to borrow other people's engines since about 1955. I rather liked the old Sunbeam-Talbot 90. It had quite a few unusual design features for its time.

They didn’t come off too bad with the Lotus 2.2L though 

[MrWolf]

2 hours ago, doilum said:

I always thought the Imp engine was something quite special being ohc and alloy and based closely on the fabled Coventry Climax race engines. I understand there were production issues arising from a political decision to build the cars in Scotland. I was led to believe that the blocks were cast in Scotland, freighted to the Midlands for machining and returned north for assembly. Had the cars been built at Ryton as originally planned, they might have been more reliable and certainly profitable.

 

From what I remember, the government of the time put in money to build the new assembly plant, IF Rootes agreed to build it at Linwood and employ former shipyard workers. It would have been far better for everyone concerned if the government had found them some ships to build instead. Chances are both Linwood and Ryton would still have been busy.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by MrWolf
Stupid autocorrect

[boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, doilum said:

I always fancied the Clan Crusader.

Of all the various kit cars of the day the Crusader was a very nice looking job, and a very good car.

[boxbrownie]

8 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I think that was the beginning of the problem, not building it the way that Coventry Climax would because it was destined to power a shopping trolley. Machined out and Wells rings fitted the imp engine was a different animal. They also powered a few racing sidecar outfits. It was a brave step that Hillman took which had every chance of being a world beater, if....

Originally it was designed to power a fork lift truck.....

[doilum]

3 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

From what I remember, the government of the time put in money to build the new assembly plant, IF Rootes agreed to build it at Linwood and employ former shipyard workers. It would have been far better for everyone concerned if the government had found them some ships to build instead. Chances are both Linwood and Ryton would still have been busy.

 

 

The story I heard was that there was a stick as well as carrot. Planning permission was refused for the state of the art plant proposed by Rootes somewhere twixt Birmingham and Coventry.

Similar politics took the new TR7 to Speke....