For those interested in old cars.

[jcredfer]

10 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

One of the 1969 Lotus Europa S2 press cars is up for sale, fully restored, it looks rather nice....

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1969-Lotus-Europa-2-0-S-2dr-Coupe-Petrol-Manual/402648734507?hash=item5dbfbc1b2b:g:dJ8AAOSwS0tgA7yB

 

It was featured in the March 1970 issue of 'Cars & Car Conversions' magazine....

 

 

 

Price wise it's sometimes difficult to judge with these Europas as they're often all over the place and a lot of them tend to be modified with modern engines etc. I rather liek this one though!

 

 

 

 

 

The fastest Bread Van in the world.....

 

Julian

 

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, jcredfer said:

 

The fastest Bread Van in the world.....

 

Julian

 

 

Not heard that one. The world's fastest pickup truck was the one I remember. The rear end was a little unfortunate, the front two thirds looked really neat. I think that they really tried to get away from British sportscar styling and into European supercar looks though and one of the first perhaps?

[Oldddudders]

Did someone say Breadvan? I suspect this one might be faster, actually. 

 

[doilum]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Not heard that one. The world's fastest pickup truck was the one I remember. The rear end was a little unfortunate, the front two thirds looked really neat. I think that they really tried to get away from British sportscar styling and into European supercar looks though and one of the first perhaps?

Perhaps it should have had a plexiglass dome like the Porsche 906, but then they decided that the Renault engine was a tad underwhelming.

[Rugd1022]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Not heard that one. The world's fastest pickup truck was the one I remember. The rear end was a little unfortunate, the front two thirds looked really neat. I think that they really tried to get away from British sportscar styling and into European supercar looks though and one of the first perhaps?

 

When Colin Chapman started his mid engined coupe project it was originally done as a proposal for Ford to gain the GT40 contract, Ron Hickman did this sketch of what he and Chapman had in mind, but when Ford decided to go with Eric Broadley of Lola the idea was picked up again and became the Europa....

 

 

They are definitely 'Marmite' cars and the rear end is very much an acquired taste but I've always loved it, to me it looks like something straight out of Gerry Anderson's 'UFO' with something like a gas turbine lurking under the skin, particularly from this angle looking down on it from behind....

 

 

It shouts '1970' to me, but I do understand why some think it's downright odd or ugly .

 

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Rugd1022

[MrWolf]

I don't think that it's ugly to be honest, I wouldn't object to one cluttering up our garage, I just think that the back panel was a bit of a compromise and the combination of the square rear light clusters and deck lid that looks like the lower edge never fited properly was what put people off, it looks like a kit car although the semi integrated bumper (ex Viva?) is a good styling touch. The rear end treatment of the concept drawing works better, with or without the machine gun exhaust. 

It's mostly those upper corners though that jar. Do you have a cat? Picture it's litter box upside down...

It's still way better looking than the Porsche 914 though!

Edited January 22, 2021 by MrWolf

[Rugd1022]

24 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

I don't think that it's ugly to be honest, I wouldn't object to one cluttering up our garage, I just think that the back panel was a bit of a compromise and the combination of the square rear light clusters and deck lid that looks like the lower edge never fited properly was what put people off, it looks like a kit car although the semi integrated bumper (ex Viva?) is a good styling touch. The rear end treatment of the concept drawing works better, with or without the machine gun exhaust. 

It's mostly those upper corners though that jar. Do you have a cat? Picture it's litter box upside down...

It's still way better looking than the Porsche 914 though!

 

The rear bumper was from the Mk2 Cortina and the front was from the Anglia.

 

Someone just posted this lovely clip on Pistonheads, I thought it worth posting here - the Great North Road in colour in 1939, the quality is superb for the time, in a strange way it looks like it was filmed last week....

 

 

Edited to add this rather nice clip from the '66 Earls Court Motor Show, including a very brief glimpse of the '66 Le Mans winning GT40 on the Ford stand....

 

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Rugd1022

[Jol Wilkinson]

19 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Slightly more blatant than that, a lot of car manufacturers would purchase a rival's new model and dismantle it for inspection.

 

Working on the Opel stand at the Motor Show in the 70s, we always saw an invasion of Japanese on Press/Preview day, all equipped with SLR cameras. The shutter noise could be deafening.

 

18 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Less practical and not really that much more sleek than the three-door hatch anyway.

 

The Opel product range for the home market was usually broader than Vauxhall's. The British became increasingly focussed in hatchbacks and trying to sell a small saloon in the UK became a waste of time. Peugeot introduced a saloon version of the 306, badged as a "Sedan" but it failed to sell in any volume. 

 

 

 

Other markets still buy small saloons, China being one.

[Rugd1022]

Another view of the '66 Earls Court Motor Show....

 

 

[boxbrownie]

6 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Working on the Opel stand at the Motor Show in the 70s, we always saw an invasion of Japanese on Press/Preview day, all equipped with SLR cameras. The shutter noise could be deafening.

 

Aha it was you handing out the Bucks Fizz on the stands then?  

 

One lesson soon learned on press days was don’t touch the alcohol, just drink as much juice as you could scrounge, those horrible sodium vapour lamps at most shows really took their toll after 10 hours wandering around with a load of camera/video gear, we could clock up anything from 10 to 15 miles a day according to a pedometer we were given at one show!

[Rugd1022]

2 hours ago, MrWolf said:

I don't think that it's ugly to be honest, I wouldn't object to one cluttering up our garage, I just think that the back panel was a bit of a compromise and the combination of the square rear light clusters and deck lid that looks like the lower edge never fited properly was what put people off, it looks like a kit car although the semi integrated bumper (ex Viva?) is a good styling touch. The rear end treatment of the concept drawing works better, with or without the machine gun exhaust. 

It's mostly those upper corners though that jar. Do you have a cat? Picture it's litter box upside down...

It's still way better looking than the Porsche 914 though!

 

The light clusters on the S2 Europa came from the Alfa 105 series Bertone Coupe, the earlier S1 and Type 47 racers had Lancia rear lights....

 

 

PS : I'm very partial to Porsche 914s!

 

 

 

 

[boxbrownie]

14 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

 

 

PS : I'm very partial to Porsche 914s!

 

 

 

 

Now your talking.........

[MrWolf]

Above the bumper line I would agree, below is plain hideous. Shades of US spec MGB / Midget or FIAT X19, evcept the Bertone which had much better trim. Even the 911 looks bad with all that matt black rubber and matt black sills always remind me of rotten MK3 Cortinas, held together with underseal.

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

 

 

PS : I'm very partial to Porsche 914s!

 

 

 

 

I looked for one of these back in 1984’ish as prices were very cheap, who wants a 4 cylinder Porsche, right?  Well I did as they are really well thought out from a drivers point of view and a good drive especially back then, I could not find one without a rusty floor both passenger cell and front boot, and a lot had well weakened cills also, back then I thought it was just Lancia and Alfa did that.......had to wait another 35 years before I bought a mid engined Porker 

 

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Above the bumper line I would agree, below is plain hideous. Shades of US spec MGB / Midget or FIAT X19, evcept the Bertone which had much better trim. Even the 911 looks bad with all that matt black rubber and matt black sills always remind me of rotten MK3 Cortinas, held together with underseal.

????

[Rugd1022]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

I looked for one of these back in 1984’ish as prices were very cheap, who wants a 4 cylinder Porsche, right?  Well I did as they are really well thought out from a drivers point of view and a good drive especially back then, I could not find one without a rusty floor both passenger cell and front boot, and a lot had well weakened cills also, back then I thought it was just Lancia and Alfa did that.......had to wait another 35 years before I bought a mid engined Porker 

 

 

Nice take on the 914 storey here....

 

 

[MrWolf]

?????

 

 

That's what. That bumper looks like the rubber buffer on a lorry loading bay. Poor thing looks like it's peering over a wall. 

[jcredfer]

11 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

When Colin Chapman started his mid engined coupe project it was originally done as a proposal for Ford to gain the GT40 contract, Ron Hickman did this sketch of what he and Chapman had in mind, but when Ford decided to go with Eric Broadley of Lola the idea was picked up again and became the Europa....

 

 

They are definitely 'Marmite' cars and the rear end is very much an acquired taste but I've always loved it, to me it looks like something straight out of Gerry Anderson's 'UFO' with something like a gas turbine lurking under the skin, particularly from this angle looking down on it from behind....

 

 

It shouts '1970' to me, but I do understand why some think it's downright odd or ugly .

 

 

 

 

 

I understand, too.  I just find Marmite very satisfying on HOT TOAST!! 
 

The BOAC 1000[??] at Brands Hatch was a wonder to watch, Lola 7 Ltr, v Bread Van.  The Lola lagging through the whole circuit until the Stand straight, at which point, credit goes to the Lola driver for keeping it in a sufficiently straight line to pass the Bread Van...   only to be overtaken on the first corner afterwards.

 

MR Wolf suggested that he wouldn't mind one cluttering his garage.  I might be permitted to suggest that it might be out on the drive and taken for a CORVID fitness exercise on most days...        Mine would most definitely be.

 

Challenges by local Fuzz might be accompanied by an invitation to follow the exercise routine for a couple of miles...    

 

 

[MrWolf]

Definitely, any non sensible vehicle would be taken out for a run at the slightest excuse. Last year we were out on the motorcycles quite a bit. We could go out in isolation, in a bubble of 70 year old hydrocarbons and go for a walk where nobody else was and I would do the same thing in a Europa. 

Would it upset people if I said that compared to the wedge shaped models that followed, the Europa is as pretty as a Ferrari Dino?

Is it me, or have post 1974 cars been designed on an Etch-A-Sketch?

[Sidecar Racer]

 

So we have talked fastest breadvan abd fastest pickup ,

how about the fastest farmtruck .

 

 

[MrWolf]

I like that, it's silly. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

12 hours ago, MrWolf said:

?????

 

 

That's what. That bumper looks like the rubber buffer on a lorry loading bay. Poor thing looks like it's peering over a wall. 

 

Proof, if proof were needed, that you can't polish a turd.

 

Mike.

[PatB]

On 19/01/2021 at 06:51, MrWolf said:

The 101 was a big improvement on the original FC, which according to those who make new galv chassis, no two are alike. I remember someone selling one on which all the welding had been done... I only needed to see the photos....

Done indeed, done to death, done with a £20 stick welder, done with bits of old fridge.

Definitely more interesting than a Mondeo though if I were in the market for such a thing I would go for a 1970s Steyr Pinzgauer, if only for the not so rust prone chassis.

I had a (half share in a) SIIa FC for several years, with a single digit (just a 7 after all the standard digits) chassis number. It was only when it went to a new home that I discovered this meant it was from a pre-production batch. Certainly explained why it always felt like it had been built in a shed by a couple of blokes armed only with a hacksaw and a welding torch. It probably had. 

 

It's faults were many and varied, stemming from both the original design and a quarter century of abuse and neglect, but it remained a useful and loveable old beast, nonetheless. 

[Rugd1022]

12 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Definitely, any non sensible vehicle would be taken out for a run at the slightest excuse. Last year we were out on the motorcycles quite a bit. We could go out in isolation, in a bubble of 70 year old hydrocarbons and go for a walk where nobody else was and I would do the same thing in a Europa. 

Would it upset people if I said that compared to the wedge shaped models that followed, the Europa is as pretty as a Ferrari Dino?

Is it me, or have post 1974 cars been designed on an Etch-A-Sketch?

 

It certainly wouldn't upset me - as pretty as the Dino 246GT was (and undoubtedly still is), it's shape was thought outdated by the time that Bertone dusted Gandini's rejected Lamborghini Urraco proposal off the shelf and tweaked it to become the 308GT4 in 1973. John Frayling's body design for the Europa was a very clever mix of curves and straight edges and in a way so was Gandini's 308GT4, which looks like a wedge from the front but walk round it and you'll see some beautifully subtle curves joining it all together.

 

I know I'm biased on this one, but seen from above, the design of the breadvan Lotus makes perfect sense, especially where the tops of the side windows curve inwards and upwards to meet the top corner of the front screen....

 

 

 

I wouldn't fancy leaving it outside in the rain though, unless some sort of catchment / drainage gubbins could be fitted under those deck lid vent holes. I think the choice of wheels and the ride height make a huge difference to the overall look of the car too....

 

 

 

 

 

The 'factory' steel wheels with hubcaps are nice enough, but make the car look a little old fashioned.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Rugd1022

[boxbrownie]

15 hours ago, MrWolf said:

?????

 

 

That's what. That bumper looks like the rubber buffer on a lorry loading bay. Poor thing looks like it's peering over a wall. 

That’s a 914-6 GT.........get it right boy, get it right...

 

And it’s even got the shite US crash bumpers fitted so those local farm boys don’t chip the paint don’ya’no.....not that’d it’d help....they were fibreglass specials for racing 

Edited January 23, 2021 by boxbrownie