For those interested in old cars.

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, doilum said:

The jaguar MK1 was the first choice rear axle.

 

Ideal for a hotrod, already narrowed!

[peanuts]

This popped up in a local facebook group Greenfield viaduct on the micklehurst loop shortly before demolition circa 1974 some lovely old motors here .

[Kickstart]

Could possibly be argued that the Vauxhall Astra built by Daewoo and badged as Pontiac qualifies as the last us Vauxhall.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[russ p]

2 minutes ago, Kickstart said:

Could possibly be argued that the Vauxhall Astra built by Daewoo and badged as Pontiac qualifies as the last us Vauxhall.

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

Not really Katy as its really an opel Kadett 

[MrWolf]

The last 100% Vauxhalls were the HB Viva, FD Victor and PC Cresta / Viscount if I remember rightly. The HC Viva used a lot of Opel mechanical parts, FE Victor was built on an Opel floorpan and firewall. Everything thereafter is a breathed on Opel, who made some very worthy vehicles in their own right. It was part of GM's World Car programme to make everything share the most expensive to produce components and counter far east imports.

[MrWolf]

This is a 1968 Opel. It's one of the many reasons that I hate modern cars. 

 

 

[BernardTPM]

56 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

The last 100% Vauxhalls were the HB Viva, FD Victor and PC Cresta / Viscount if I remember rightly. The HC Viva used a lot of Opel mechanical parts

What parts? Basically it's a slightly enlarged HB. Reworked HB engine, same gearbox, same drive train and suspension, same floorpan, though slightly longer wheelbase and wider track, larger 13" wheels (instead of 12") from the FD.

 

I think you may be confusing it with the FE Victor which used a substantial amount of the Opel Rekord D bodyshell structure (though not the outer panels) and some other components (the most visible being the door handles, though placed at a different height). Even then the engines, transmission and suspension were upgraded carry-overs from the FD.

 

That '68 coupe is a nice shade of green.

Edited January 14, 2021 by BernardTPM

[MrWolf]

The HC in facelift form got landed with the 1256 Chevette Biscuit Tin engine in about '73 when the interior also got a revamp with full height door cards instead of painted door tops. I'm not sure if the instrument cluster and switches didn't come out of the Opel parts bin too.

That said, I would agree that the last Viva was initially a "proper" Vauxhall. It's a pity that it would have been a conflict of interest to fit the 1600 cam in head motor from the Mk1 Cavalier.

[Jol Wilkinson]

10 hours ago, MrWolf said:

This is a 1968 Opel. It's one of the many reasons that I hate modern cars. 

 

 

 

Opel Record C Coupe, the first Opel I drove when I joined GM Ltd's Vehicle Division. The RHD pool car was dark green cooking spec. but I can't recall the interior colour. After a year I moved to a field role and my first company car was a red LHD Opel GT.

[BernardTPM]

9 hours ago, MrWolf said:

The HC in facelift form got landed with the 1256 Chevette Biscuit Tin engine in about '73 when the interior also got a revamp with full height door cards instead of painted door tops. I'm not sure if the instrument cluster and switches didn't come out of the Opel parts bin too.

That said, I would agree that the last Viva was initially a "proper" Vauxhall. It's a pity that it would have been a conflict of interest to fit the 1600 cam in head motor from the Mk1 Cavalier.

But Vauxhall's Chevette used the Viva engine and was not the same as that used in the Opel Kadett. It had been enlarged from 1159 to 1256 cc for the 1972 model year, some years before the Chevette arrived. The revised dash had, strangely enough, been styled at the same time as the original one, but was only used in the Firenza 2000SL, with the seven dial instruments, but was then extended across the range in 1972 but with simpler instrument panels. The early Viva dash is easily spotted because of the squared recess round the air vents.

[russ p]

23 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

But Vauxhall's Chevette used the Viva engine and was not the same as that used in the Opel Kadett. It had been enlarged from 1159 to 1256 cc for the 1972 model year, some years before the Chevette arrived. The revised dash had, strangely enough, been styled at the same time as the original one, but was only used in the Firenza 2000SL, with the seven dial instruments, but was then extended across the range in 1972 but with simpler instrument panels. The early Viva dash is easily spotted because of the squared recess round the air vents.

 

I could never understand why there was there was the 1256 Vauxhall engine and the 1196 visually similar with nothing in common opel engine. 

Am I right in thinking the opel one was metric and the Vauxhall imperial?.

I take it the 1196s continued existence after the 1.2 family one engine was introduced was down to cost. Although I never really saw the point of this unit when there was a 1.3

[alastairq]

Possibly a political reason? Were companies compelled to use a certain percentage of home-grown components?

 

In the same vein, why the  different versions of Ford's V6? Or the V4?  {OK, the German V4 was primarily intended for FWD, I realise]...yet Ford Germany previously utilised the same sidevalve 1172cc engines as UK Ford?

 

 

I can understand why Steyr-Puch used their own hair-cooled flat twin motor in preference to FIAT's parallel twin, when building the 500 under licence...it was {IMVHO} a superior engine...

 

 

[PhilJ W]

The Ford model Y and C were built in both the UK and Germany. Initially the German cars included British made components. This carried on until 1936/37 when each country started producing cars with their own styling.

[MJI]

18 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Possibly a political reason? Were companies compelled to use a certain percentage of home-grown components?

 

In the same vein, why the  different versions of Ford's V6? Or the V4?  {OK, the German V4 was primarily intended for FWD, I realise]...yet Ford Germany previously utilised the same sidevalve 1172cc engines as UK Ford?

 

 

I can understand why Steyr-Puch used their own hair-cooled flat twin motor in preference to FIAT's parallel twin, when building the 500 under licence...it was {IMVHO} a superior engine...

 

 

 

And both of the V6 designs were not great. UK tended to warp heads AFAIR (alwys being repaired) and D was comprimised ports.

 

Prefer the Opel Straight 6s.

 

Hair cooled, well I suppose a twin could power a hair dryer.

[alastairq]

HI knhow, hit's hay kaheeboard hissue.

 

V6's developed by Frord, & GM [UK , Europe & USofA]because there are inherent issues of equal fuelling in a straight 6.

To do with the outer cylinders having longer inlet runners than the middle ones.

Could be overcome by split manifolding, and multiple carbs [as Jagwar did]...or as Raymond Mays showed with the UK Ford inline 6, triple carbs]....

The V6 type had a natural fuelling advantage over long inlines. [Although long inlines are probably better for torque output]

GM went to V6 in {IIRC?] the 1970's, with a long production run...

 

Of course, once fuel infection became a cheap, but essential, manufacturing solution, the issues of gas speeds, mixing, etc were reduced in inline  sixes...

[BernardTPM]

4 hours ago, russ p said:

I could never understand why there was there was the 1256 Vauxhall engine and the 1196 visually similar with nothing in common opel engine. 

Am I right in thinking the opel one was metric and the Vauxhall imperial?.

Yes, the engines were related in basic layout but built, and later developed, entirely separately.

[MJI]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

HI knhow, hit's hay kaheeboard hissue.

 

V6's developed by Frord, & GM [UK , Europe & USofA]because there are inherent issues of equal fuelling in a straight 6.

To do with the outer cylinders having longer inlet runners than the middle ones.

Could be overcome by split manifolding, and multiple carbs [as Jagwar did]...or as Raymond Mays showed with the UK Ford inline 6, triple carbs]....

The V6 type had a natural fuelling advantage over long inlines. [Although long inlines are probably better for torque output]

GM went to V6 in {IIRC?] the 1970's, with a long production run...

 

Of course, once fuel infection became a cheap, but essential, manufacturing solution, the issues of gas speeds, mixing, etc were reduced in inline  sixes...

 

The GM EU V6 came out in 1990s to replace the Opel Straight 6, was made in Ellsmere Port and partially designed by someone called Geoff.

 

Was a good engine as well, 24 valve, quad cam. Horrible in transverse applications but great in RWD applications due to cam belt.

 

BUT I had to change the thermostat on mine and took the left head off as it was easier, the Vectra owner who tthought it was funny to say his was easy to change shut up upon hearing the two words of cam belt.

 

I had 3 cam belt changes in my time and thermostat once, when I fitted ported heads.

[boxbrownie]

4 hours ago, alastairq said:

HI knhow, hit's hay kaheeboard hissue.

 

V6's developed by Frord, & GM [UK , Europe & USofA]because there are inherent issues of equal fuelling in a straight 6.

To do with the outer cylinders having longer inlet runners than the middle ones.

Could be overcome by split manifolding, and multiple carbs [as Jagwar did]...or as Raymond Mays showed with the UK Ford inline 6, triple carbs]....

The V6 type had a natural fuelling advantage over long inlines. [Although long inlines are probably better for torque output]

GM went to V6 in {IIRC?] the 1970's, with a long production run...

 

Of course, once fuel infection became a cheap, but essential, manufacturing solution, the issues of gas speeds, mixing, etc were reduced in inline  sixes...

But oddly they would rather do that than put up with the inherent poor balance issues of a V6 engine over a straight six which is naturally in balance.......but of course the main reason for V over straight was pure and simple packaging being more compact for the engine bay.

[MrWolf]

Ah, the joy of can belts. At least on the FD, FE and CF, changing can belts was a matter of removing the fan and cam guard, pushing the old belt back as far as it will go and pushing the new one up to it.

The clever part was then to take a Stanley knife and slit all round the overhanging circumference of the old belt, cutting it in half, then pushing the new belt fully home. This pushed the remains of the old belt off the back of the pulleys, you cut that off and job done.

This was of course before the days of engines being shoehorned the wrong way round into engine bays and water pump jockey pulleys etc (otherwise known as time bombs) An hours job you could do in your driveway.

But cars are BETTER now, any dealer or man who is buying a new car on finance whilst watching it's value nosedive will tell you that until the cows come home. 

[MrWolf]

6 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

But oddly they would rather do that than put up with the inherent poor balance issues of a V6 engine over a straight six which is naturally in balance.......but of course the main reason for V over straight was pure and simple packaging being more compact for the engine bay.

 

Good point. Inline sixes were seen as old fashioned. Unless they were all alloy and made by a high end manufacturer.

As for smooth engines in old cars, if you ever get the chance to drive a 40s Buick straight eight, you really should. 

[boxbrownie]

10 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

Good point. Inline sixes were seen as old fashioned. Unless they were all alloy and made by a high end manufacturer.

As for smooth engines in old cars, if you ever get the chance to drive a 40s Buick straight eight, you really should. 

My workmate had a 1930’s Studebaker with a straight eight, that was a huge beast, car as well.......but it was not his first love he also had a whole gamut of Austin Sevens, from Ulster and Boat tail to Chummys...about eight running and another eight I’d guess in bits 

[boxbrownie]

25 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

Good point. Inline sixes were seen as old fashioned. Unless they were all alloy and made by a high end manufacturer.

 

Indeed, though it was only the high end manufacturers that had long enough bonnets to accommodate them.....often bought by chaps with less than happy self esteem (that’s put politely  ).

[PhilJ W]

59 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Ah, the joy of can belts. At least on the FD, FE and CF, changing can belts was a matter of removing the fan and cam guard, pushing the old belt back as far as it will go and pushing the new one up to it.

The clever part was then to take a Stanley knife and slit all round the overhanging circumference of the old belt, cutting it in half, then pushing the new belt fully home. This pushed the remains of the old belt off the back of the pulleys, you cut that off and job done.

This was of course before the days of engines being shoehorned the wrong way round into engine bays and water pump jockey pulleys etc (otherwise known as time bombs) An hours job you could do in your driveway.

But cars are BETTER now, any dealer or man who is buying a new car on finance whilst watching it's value nosedive will tell you that until the cows come home. 

But try changing the spark plugs, I've still got the scars.

[MrWolf]

7 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

But try changing the spark plugs, I've still got the scars.

I found that the way round it was a 3/8 drive socket and a very short extension bar

But if the baboons had mangled the stainless steel heat guards, especially on No4, it was Russian roulette with your knuckles. Speaking of which, who was the #£@* that designed the plug entry angle for the rear pot on the Chevette? Was the same sadist responsible for the same thing on the Jaguar V12 ? Especially when squashed into an XJS? 

[MrWolf]

42 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Indeed, though it was only the high end manufacturers that had long enough bonnets to accommodate them.....often bought by chaps with less than happy self esteem (that’s put politely  ).

 

I can't understand why a sixty something guy still forks out for a Ferrari, Maserati et al when Viagra is so cheap and available over the counter these days?