For those interested in old cars.

[Hobby]

"Vintage" first, Alastair!!

[alastairq]

Blimey..30 years old for 'vintage?'   That means I've got a vintage FIAT 126!

 

Which makes my Daihatsu Fourtrak a 'post-vintage thoroughbred?'

 

I've mentioned this in the past [on here?] but where-I-used-to-work-before-I-saw-the-light-&-retired.......at a government establishment for the restoration of dementors....there were [at one time or another] several Ford Mondeos in use, which were donated by Ford [who else?]...as they were unregistered, unidentifiable mules, or prototypes...used on the understanding they would never go out on the highway [wish I were in that category, some were heard to mutter?] They were used in skid frames, and for teaching various circus tricks to drivers who might have need of them....They had many detail differences from production Mondeos....

[Hobby]

30 minutes ago, alastairq said:

Blimey..30 years old for 'vintage?'   That means I've got a vintage FIAT 126!

 

Which makes my Daihatsu Fourtrak a 'post-vintage thoroughbred?'

 

Naw! 25-50 Classic, Over 50 Antique, pre 1930/1 Vintage and pre-automobile pre-colonisation!  

[alastairq]

23 hours ago, Kelly said:

I only really count something as vintage if it is 30 years old

Ummm?   

 

I presume the poster above is of a more modern, and therefore, up-to-the-minute, generation, so bow to their judgement...

Edited February 26, 2019 by alastairq

[boxbrownie]

I have never been able to get my head around the fact that a lot of the post 70’s pre 90’s Minis are considered classics......to me they were modern replacement versions of the “real classics” Mk1/Mk2 I used to own and use for work/play.

 

Blimey.......I just realised I am antique! 

Edited February 26, 2019 by boxbrownie

[APOLLO]

Back in 1989 I traded my old Audi 90 for an ex demo Peugeot 405 diesel - base model. A lovely car that did around 45 - 50 mpg - and diesel was £1.49 a gallon. Metallic grey, 3 years and never a problem. I moved house and sold the 405 to a Taxi firm in Warrington - got more or less what I paid for it too. I then got my first company car - another Peugeot. a 405 GT DT with all the bells & whistles - another great car BUT because of  the turbo (or my right foot !!) MPG dropped to mid 30's. It was company Citroens after that, Xantias, Synergy and a Picasso, with one Ford Focus,  All were great cars.

 

I'm not a fan of modern cars - too much electronickery.

 

Brit15

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

I have never been able to get my head around the fact that a lot of the post 70’s pre 90’s Minis are considered classics......to me they were modern replacement versions of the “real classics” Mk1/Mk2 I used to own and use for work/play.

 

Blimey.......I just realised I am antique! 

 

So am I and (most?) of the contributors on this thread!

 

It's not that the later Minis are considered "classics" it's just that is the name given to the original model of Mini to differentiate it from the BMW version by the enthusiasts of the original version, hence the term "classic Minis"... I suspect a bit of "one upmanship" by said enthusiasts as well!

Edited February 26, 2019 by Hobby

[boxbrownie]

13 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

So am I and (most?) of the contributors on this thread!

 

It's not that the later Minis are considered "classics" it's just that is the name given to the original model of Mini to differentiate it from the BMW version by the enthusiasts of the original version, hence the term "classic Minis"... I suspect a bit of "one upmanship" by said enthusiasts as well!

Oh no, I don’t mean the BMW Series 0.5........I mean the miriad of special editions Minis that came after Mk1/Mk2....although with the Mk3 I’ll let the Cooper S slip through ........oh well us old’uns’ll be gone soon then they can fight over classic Teslas. 

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

Ummm?   

 

I presume the poster above is of a more modern, and therefore, up-to-the-minute, generation, so bow to their judgement...

It is distinctly infra-dig to pubicly guess a lady’s age, and having met Kelly I will not do so, but she is almost certainly half my age. At the most!

[Hobby]

10 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Oh no, I don’t mean the BMW Series 0.5........I mean the miriad of special editions Minis that came after Mk1/Mk2....although with the Mk3 I’ll let the Cooper S slip through ...

 

Hate to think what you thought of the Clubman, then!!  

[boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Hate to think what you thought of the Clubman, then!!  

We had clubman, well 1275GT (I wasn’t  going to go too far down) and although it was actually quite a nice car it didn’t have the zip of our previous ‘S”......we changed it for a Dolomite Sprint.......and yes that over heated and ran the mains!

 

The Clubman was a natural progression to try and keep the design fresh, it sort of worked......but then BL just lost interest.

[Rugd1022]

4 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Oh no, I don’t mean the BMW Series 0.5........I mean the miriad of special editions Minis that came after Mk1/Mk2....although with the Mk3 I’ll let the Cooper S slip through ........oh well us old’uns’ll be gone soon then they can fight over classic Teslas. 

 

Find yourself a very early untouched Mk3 Mini 850 or 1000 from October '69 and you've got yourself a bonafide classic, they are surprisingly rare now and differ from the 1976 MkIV onwards more than you'd think. The Mk2 was really just a facelifted interim model, but only because BMC lacked the funds to retool the entire range in one go to have the same (slightly larger and differently shaped) internally hinged doors with wind up windows as the Mk3 Elf and Hornet. Not surprisingly there are more Mk2 Coopers and Ss around than the 850 and 1000 models as in the early days of Minis being seen as classics they were worth restoring, but all Mk2s can be considered 'rare' as they were only made from September '67 to February '70. Ironically the sought after Mk1 1275 S is much more common! Early Clubmans and 1275GTs are now becoming sought after too as the values of the Cooper models have put them out of reach for many enthusiasts. The Mk3 S is often rightly seen as a better car overall than the earlier Coopers, there weren't many official road test reports when they were new but everything I've managed to dig up gives them the thumbs up in the areas of comfort, equipment levels and performance. Sales were admittedly slow, partly because they looked almost identical to a Mini 1000 and because the 1275GT had been launched almost five months previously and some buyers wanted something new and different, but with only 1,570 built from March '70 to July '71 the Mk3 S is now a niche model. Simon Wheatcroft the MCR Mk3 S Registrar has about four hundred known cars on his books, which isn't bad going considering the usual attrition rate for British cars from the '70s and the fact that only 792 were sold I the UK. (Some of those four hundred have been repatriated from overseas). This 1970 example is a beauty, one of the lads on the Mk1 Performance Forum went to see it last week and says it's a minter and the real McCoy... https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1071730 ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

......we changed it for a Dolomite Sprint.......and yes that over heated and ran the mains!

My first car was a Dolly 1850 - can you believe that now?  An 19-year old insured to drive 1850cc?

 

I worked at the time with a guy who drove lots of cars, often things like Golf GTis.  One week a friend lent him his Dolly Sprint, he was almost scared by it, the performance was very similar but the experience so much more "raw" than the Golf.

[big jim]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Oh no, I don’t mean the BMW Series 0.5........I mean the miriad of special editions Minis that came after Mk1/Mk2....although with the Mk3 I’ll let the Cooper S slip through ........oh well us old’uns’ll be gone soon then they can fight over classic Teslas. 

 

its funny my eldest lad wants a 'traditional mini' as his first car and has been looking on ebay, autotrader etc and has found various 90s minis that he shows me and i find myself saying to him "but thats not a classic mini, its too new" 

 

tbh i wouldnt let him have a 90s one anyway as they are not exactly the safest of vehicles when it comes to crash worthyness, you are the crumple zone and they lack basic safety features such as airbags etc which lets face it a new driver these days needs no matter how confident they say they are, he's only aproaching 15 so he has a few years to go yet until he's mobile (and ive said if i keep the convertible he can use that)

[uax6]

I'm not so sure that they do need airbags etc. What they need is a dose of reality, in that if you drive like a muppet you will kill yourself, and what better way to show that than with a real mini, where your head is the airbag....

 

My 10 year old daughter tonight asked if Dot had air bags while we were coming back from archery. Nope, the only safety feature being the seatbelt you are wearing (and even that isn't compulsory to have fitted as Dot is a '62 minor.....). Funny how young minds work, she said good, I don't want a broke nose if one goes off. Explaining that they tend only to go off in an accident, so a broken nose is preferable to death was sort of taken with a gulp.

 

Andy G

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

Find yourself a very early untouched Mk3 Mini 850 or 1000 from October '69 and you've got yourself a bonafide classic, they are surprisingly rare now and differ from the 1976 MkIV onwards more than you'd think. The Mk2 was really just a facelifted interim model, but only because BMC lacked the funds to retool the entire range in one go to have the same (slightly larger and differently shaped) internally hinged doors with wind up windows as the Mk3 Elf and Hornet. Not surprisingly there are more Mk2 Coopers and Ss around than the 850 and 1000 models as in the early days of Minis being seen as classics they were worth restoring, but all Mk2s can be considered 'rare' as they were only made from September '67 to February '70. Ironically the sought after Mk1 1275 S is much more common! Early Clubmans and 1275GTs are now becoming sought after too as the values of the Cooper models have put them out of reach for many enthusiasts. The Mk3 S is often rightly seen as a better car overall than the earlier Coopers, there weren't many official road test reports when they were new but everything I've managed to dig up gives them the thumbs up in the areas of comfort, equipment levels and performance. Sales were admittedly slow, partly because they looked almost identical to a Mini 1000 and because the 1275GT had been launched almost five months previously and some buyers wanted something new and different, but with only 1,570 built from March '70 to July '71 the Mk3 S is now a niche model. Simon Wheatcroft the MCR Mk3 S Registrar has about four hundred known cars on his books, which isn't bad going considering the usual attrition rate for British cars from the '70s and the fact that only 792 were sold I the UK. (Some of those four hundred have been repatriated from overseas). This 1970 example is a beauty, one of the lads on the Mk1 Performance Forum went to see it last week and says it's a minter and the real McCoy... https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1071730 ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes indeed, our last Cooper was a 1972 “K reg” Cooper S..........Written off by a drunk farmer with his Triumph 2000 running into the back of it.......we were lucky but the poor little Coop was badly twisted, changed it for the 1275GT........big step down.

[big jim]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

I'm not so sure that they do need airbags etc. What they need is a dose of reality, in that if you drive like a muppet you will kill yourself, and what better way to show that than with a real mini, where your head is the airbag....

 

Andy G

 

You don’t have to drive like a muppet to kill yourself there are plenty of other drivers out there willing to help! 

[Hobby]

Let's face it if you are driving a Smart car or C1 or similar and are hit by a large SUV all those crumple zones, airbags, etc., aren't going to do you the world of good, they'll still get past them and destroy you in your little 5 star rated car...

 

It seems rather academic discussing such things on a thread for old cars as any drivers of such vehicles will have already accepted the greater risk in driving such vehicles...

[Oldddudders]

12 hours ago, Northmoor said:

My first car was a Dolly 1850 - can you believe that now?  An 19-year old insured to drive 1850cc?

 

I worked at the time with a guy who drove lots of cars, often things like Golf GTis.  One week a friend lent him his Dolly Sprint, he was almost scared by it, the performance was very similar but the experience so much more "raw" than the Golf.

I never drove one, but gathered that the Dolly was a typical Triumph product with comfort aforethought, and adding an engine designed to be point-and-squirt made for a very poor blend of engine and chassis. Early Golf GTis only lacked in the braking department....  

[boxbrownie]

7 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I never drove one, but gathered that the Dolly was a typical Triumph product with comfort aforethought, and adding an engine designed to be point-and-squirt made for a very poor blend of engine and chassis. Early Golf GTis only lacked in the braking department....  

The original Dolly was indeed like that but the Sprint had several modifications made to its suspension by special tuning which made it a different car than the standard m0del, although it had one big weak point which was the rear axle links, after a few thousand miles of er......enthusiastic driving the floor mounts to the links would tear the metal around the mount, very nasty but could be quite easily repaired with strengthening plates, of course that didn’t help the over heating engine 

 

The Sprint was a “Gentleman’s Sporting Carriage” rather than a Capri which was more a “Door to Door Salesman’s Trouser Enhancer” 

[Hobby]

The 1850 wasn't a sporty car, though, a friend of mine had one and I can never remember it as being very fast. Large engines but not particularly high speeds/power were the norm around then, think around 1700cc is various cars such as the Maxi .Hunter, etc. Plus you could quite low powered stuff over 2000 as well. If you'd had a Sprint and had it insured I would have been impressed, though more by how much money you had to spend!

 

I must admit I did like the 1850 Dolly, though, as a cruiser it did the job well, I did wonder about one before I got the P6 but just preferred the looks of the P6... Performance cars do nothing for me, I'm afraid, I did my racing on the track and prefer my classic to have some luxury and not rock had suspension!

[boxbrownie]

Quite correct, the normal 1850 was purely a normal family car albeit aimed at the luxury end of the market, but the Sprint was a completely different engine, it was the first 16valve production engine as I recall, and gave 3 Litre Capris a run for their money.....don’t ask how I know 

[big jim]

3 hours ago, Hobby said:

It seems rather academic discussing such things on a thread for old cars as any drivers of such vehicles will have already accepted the greater risk in driving such vehicles...

 

Me included with my ‘modern mini’ 

 

certainly on my daily commute to and from Birmingham on the M6 going from a 5L LWB VW pheaton which is huge and built like a tank and filled with safety features and changing to a considerably smaller mini convertible with ‘basic’ safety equipment was somewhat of an eye opener! 

[peanuts]

46 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Quite correct, the normal 1850 was purely a normal family car albeit aimed at the luxury end of the market, but the Sprint was a completely different engine, it was the first 16valve production engine as I recall, and gave 3 Litre Capris a run for their money.....don’t ask how I know 

was the sprint engine not sold on to saab and used in there bigger engined models  or is my re olection incorrect ?

[boxbrownie]

26 minutes ago, peanuts said:

was the sprint engine not sold on to saab and used in there bigger engined models  or is my re olection incorrect ?

The 1850 series of engines was developed by Triumph and sold to SAAB for use in the new (then) 99 series vehicle, Triumph actually used it a bit later in Dolomite as I recall, I don’t think SAAB ever used the actual Sprint engine but then it was a while ago now so it is possible as the old grey head mush is a bit slower nowadays.