For those interested in old cars.

[Wolseley]

Anyway, a little puzzle for some of you who are knowledgeable about older stuff. What is this from, pictured in the attachment?

 

 

 

 

2 Stroke Trojan?

[Horsetan]

2 Stroke Trojan?

 

Appears to be arranged in "flat" form, so doesn't look like a Trojan engine.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Horsetan

[PatB]

Struggling to get pics of my phone and camera into suitable format to show here. Think  I need to use my other (ancient) laptop which has different software.

 

Anyway, a little puzzle for some of you who are knowledgeable about older stuff. What is this from, pictured in the attachment?

 

It's a pretty rare car, only about 10 still in condition to run on public roads. I knew of it as a marque but only because I used to cast 1:76 & 1:148 models of them. Those models were not detailed enough to show this interesting feature.Engine.docx

 

Would that be a Trojan by any chance? Complete with bendy V-shaped con-rods and "Wonder Springs" .

[Wolseley]

 

Appears to be arranged in "flat" form, so doesn't look like a Trojan engine.

 

 I was thinking of the earlier Leslie Hounsfield designed 1488cc engine from between the wars.

[Horsetan]

 I was thinking of the earlier Leslie Hounsfield designed 1488cc engine from between the wars.

 

Interesting. That's quite a sizeable capacity for what looks like a 2-cylinder.

[PatB]

Interesting. That's quite a sizeable capacity for what looks like a 2-cylinder.

 

The Trojan was a square-four with each pair of pistons sharing a common combustion chamber and the aforementioned V-shaped con-rod. Right weird things. No power but phenomenal torque, making them a useful weapon in MCC trials.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I knew that you lot would know! It is indeed a Trojan. There were two at the recent Gillingham Solstice event.

 

As I posted, I used to cast model kits of these when at ScaleLink. But those, understandably, have the bonnet down, so I was a bit surprised when approaching the real thing to see a bonnet open with nothing there apart from a radiator and a large open space.

[stewartingram]

A small selection taken locally in recent times.

 

 

A real Mini at my local G.P.Surgery.

 

 

Reliant Robin at Tesco, Ely.

 

 

A modern classic, owned by a local journalist. Rover 75 2.5 V6 manual in a rare colour. 

 

 

Another 75, my own 2.5 auto..

 

Stewart

[Horsetan]

Don't see many BMW E12 5-series on the road these days. This one, seen just now in the Springbridge Road multi-storey, is 40 years old and should be tax-exempt already, if not by next year....

 

[RJS1977]

As far as I'm aware the orange Miura was pulled from that garage and restored, and I agree on the other exotics being likely candidates for saving too.

 

 

Any truth in the rumour someone's currently restoring an orange Miura they found in a river in the Italian Alps?  ;-)

[runs as required]

Seeing mention of Trojan reminded me that a Liverpool 8 student friend of mine owned a vintage Trojan -  a ridiculously slow plodding bathtub on disc wheels. There were quite a few Trojan tea vans around still in the late 1940s, they were also Houndsfield twin cylinder pre-war ones. And later1950s  larger Trojan tea vans with cowelled rads which I read in the link below had Perkins engines.

The Trojan story (right down to the Heinkel) is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_(automobile)

 

After he graduated in 1960 my student friend progressed on to a flat four Jowett Javelin. He trusted me to drive the stylish 15 year old fast back and it still seemed a smoothly understated and swift machine.

 

(OT - while on minimalism does anybody remember the large single cylinder Field Marshall tractor with a cartridge start?  As a 12 year old I was allowed to drive one on a relative's farm beside the Crewe line just north of Shrewsbury. I suppose it had oustanding low speed torque -  but for me a most satisfying tonk-tonk-tonk noise.)

dh

[Ohmisterporter]

Field Marshall tractors regularly appear at steam and vintage rallies. Always look as though they will bounce themselves to bits but the owners I talk to love them.

[37114]

At least with a "barn find" you know that you are likely to be getting something original and genuine.

 

Some of the restored stuff has very little of the original car present.

 

I won't disagree but being in the middle of a near "last nut and bolt" rebuild of a Land Rover at the moment, it is a hard balance to strike. Yes I could replace only bare essentials but over the life time of the vehicle they would be replaced anyway and the cost of repair outweighs cost of new. I accept a Land Rover is very different to an Aston, Jag etc but there is a reality to what is actually repairable . To give you an idea of what and why I replaced/repaired:

 

Reused

- Bulkhead - Repaired but many of the sections were rotted so it has had new footwells, door post and top sections so 40% of it is new

- Gearbox - Mostly original due to being in good condition but new bearings, synchros etc

- Axle casings and diffs

- Engine - Likely to get new Pistons and rings, head was new 10 years ago so not the original.

- Rear body - In good condition

- Propshafts

- Wheels - They have been repaired with some difficulty (my restorer nearly walked away) but the cost was more than putting brand new Defender 90 steels on however they are a slightly different shape so are noticeable to a trained eye so stuck with original

 

New

- Chassis - The original was shot beyond belief and required significant patching/repairs which exceeded the cost of a new galv chassis by some margin

- All Brakes (excluding Drums) - Not going to take the risk on old pipes etc and most items are service items

- Suspension and shocks - One spring was broken, the others were badly bowed, shocks were rusted and leaking.

- Electrics - Wiring loom was shot to pieces at the rear due to previous owner bodges, as it runs inside the chassis any contact would create a short and risk a fire

- Fuel tank - Old one was rusting badly, again not taking the risk welding when new ones are available

- Doors - Door frames and tops have badly rusted and not repairable

- Heater assembly - Original was badly rusted and beyond repair so a good condition second hand one has been added.

 

I would add it wasn't a barn find which means I admire those who do have a go at restoring one of those wrecks even more.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Seeing mention of Trojan reminded me that a Liverpool 8 student friend of mine owned a vintage Trojan -  a ridiculously slow plodding bathtub on disc wheels. There were quite a few Trojan tea vans around still in the late 1940s, they were also Houndsfield twin cylinder pre-war ones. And later1950s  larger Trojan tea vans with cowelled rads which I read in the link below had Perkins engines.

The Trojan story (right down to the Heinkel) is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_(automobile)

 

After he graduated in 1960 my student friend progressed on to a flat four Jowett Javelin. He trusted me to drive the stylish 15 year old fast back and it still seemed a smoothly understated and swift machine.

 

(OT - while on minimalism does anybody remember the large single cylinder Field Marshall tractor with a cartridge start?  As a 12 year old I was allowed to drive one on a relative's farm beside the Crewe line just north of Shrewsbury. I suppose it had oustanding low speed torque -  but for me a most satisfying tonk-tonk-tonk noise.)

dh

When I were but a lad my father drove a Trojan van with windows and longitudinal benches to carry his team of workmen. They worked for my uncle's contracting company based near Rugby. I particularly remember that the diesel engine was difficult to start in cold weather and  you had to unscrew and pump a knob on the dashboard marked "Ki-gas" to spray fuel into the intake for - allegedly - easier starting.

 

A friend recently attended an auction of "classic" vehicles that included a barn find (what else) Field Marshall that hadn't apparently been run for twenty years. It was started by screwing in a cartridge and hitting it with a hammer. He said it was a memorable event.

[alastairq]

With a 'barn-find' [whatever that is?],the costs of putting the vehicle back on the road, in a chosen condition, fall into two camps, IMHO.

 

When one acknowledges one lacks the skill, or the time, to do stuff, one pays someone a labour charge to do it for one? With this extra cost, it is to be hoped the end result is considered to be worth the candle?

 

Alternatively, one does pretty much everything oneself.......if one has the time,and a modicum of skill. What price does one put on this method?

 

Much as we do with our models?

 

Personally I fall into the latter camp....the only time I take stuff to an outsider is when I need accuracy to do the job [ie, machining, etc]....I've just spent many weeks simply filling in all the fresh air that has become noticeable in my old Daihatsu workhorse......[as & when I've felt like it]....probably many hundreds of pound's worth of welding and fettling.

Yet, the actual cost to me is around 40 quid...for steel, for welding gas, and  half a spool.  [4 sheets of 1 point something milly steel for under £20......my Bosche leccy shears go though it lickety spit!].....paint [under & over coats] maybe a tenner or less, Wilko's finest outdoor paint.....plus a couple of brush packs.

 

All not very pretty...never  was the intention....but the workhorse will live on.....I expect, anybody else would have flogged the engine and scrapped the rest.

 

But, this is all a digression from the current topic.....whether a vehicle  the state of those above would be viable to make good? 

 

My view, identity is probably the most important thing I would look for.

Edited June 30, 2017 by alastairq

[C.A.T.Ford]

(OT - while on minimalism does anybody remember the large single cylinder Field Marshall tractor with a cartridge start?  As a 12 year old I was allowed to drive one on a relative's farm beside the Crewe line just north of Shrewsbury. I suppose it had oustanding low speed torque -  but for me a most satisfying tonk-tonk-tonk noise.)

dh

 

I have just cause to remember the Field Marshall tractor. A good friend had always wanted one and working his way up from stationary engines eventually bought a mark one. These did not have the cartridge starter, you fitted a starting handle onto the centre of the fly wheel lifted the decompressor lever got the engine spinning on the handle and then dropped the decompressor and bingo! Thanks to some smouldering card board you screwed into the cylinder head it fired and ran. I seem to remember he told me they were either five or seven litres.

 

Yeah right! we cranked like mad dropped the lever the thing kicked back and I got a drones eye view of a Field Marshall tractor as I was thrown over the engine cover followed by a crunching impact as I hit the ground. It took a week for my arms to stop aching, they must have been real men back in the day!

 

CAT 

[PhilJ W]

A very old member of my model railway club was bought up on a farm in Norfolk. He said that to start a Field Marshall tractor in the winter they used a blowtorch to heat a special plug in the cylinder head until it was red hot and the hit the cartridge with a hammer.

[Horsetan]

A very old member of my model railway club was bought up on a farm in Norfolk. He said that to start a Field Marshall tractor in the winter they used a blowtorch to heat a special plug in the cylinder head until it was red hot and the hit the cartridge with a hammer.

 

What exactly was in the plug cartridge?

[Porcy Mane]

What exactly was in the plug cartridge?

 

You've never watched Flight of the Pheonix?

 

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Porcy Mane

[PhilJ W]

What exactly was in the plug cartridge?

 

 

You've never watched Flight of the Pheonix?

 

 

Works on the same principle as a model aircraft glow-plug engine.

[runs as required]

Very glad others have a fascination for the Field Marshall; it seemed so much heavier and expensive than the usual Fordsons and the new little Fergies appearing postwar.

I loved the two videos Porcy (a cracking film, one of Richard Attenborough's best) - and the recollection of trying to start a FM on the handle.
What exactly were supposed to be the FM's advantages?

 

Shrewsbury to me seemed an innovative place - it had the Sentinel works making early postwar underfloor engined buses (and lorries), yet like their railway work, they never seemed to catch on bigtime. But the Midland Red S5 multiplied, 5 years or more before the big manufactures muscled in.

 

It was interesting that the farming family had moved up to Salop in the 1930s from Claybury in Essex having made a killing selling their farmland for building adjacent to the new Southend Arterial road. My dad said they'd moved their predominantly dairy farm on one of those farm moving trains. Another branch of the same family (my grandma's cousins) had their farm swallowed up later under Stanstead airport.

I would never have made a farmer. I was most distressed by the Field Marshall crushing Lapwing nests (and fledglings) callously as it worked steadily across the field with the parent birds frantically swooping and diving around our heads (I was in the Peewit Scout Patrol !).

dh

[Horsetan]

You've never watched Flight of the Pheonix?....

Nope. But I have now!

[Rugd1022]

Any truth in the rumour someone's currently restoring an orange Miura they found in a river in the Italian Alps?  ;-)

 

I actually laughed out loud and nearly spilled my brew reading that! As it happens, one of the two Miuras used in The Italian Job is up for grabs at a dealer in Cheshire 9asking price will be at least £1.5m), chassis no. 3586 which has been verified as the one driven across the St.Bernard Pass in the opening sequence. The other one which was pulled from the tunnel by the digger and tipped over the Armco was a customer's car which had been returned to the factory after he'd crashed it. The story is that the film crew went back to retrieve the remains the following day and there was no trace of it!

 

Here's '3586' in July '68, it was borrowed by the film crew for three days then went back to the factory before being sold to its first owner...

 

 

 

And more recently, awaiting its next owner...

 

 

Amongst many other things, the verification process included comparing the stitching of the seats, headrests and dashboard trimming with period photos and freeze frames from the film, as no two Miura interiors are exactly alike due to being hand made. The kinks in the stitching and grain in the leather match perfectly, plus of course there's a factory history to go with the car.

 

Quite fancy it myself... anyone want to by an old Mini...?

 

 

 

Photo by Olivier Nameche

Edited July 1, 2017 by Rugd1022

[peanuts]

iirc the crashed one has surfaced seem to remember it being mentioned on chris evans morning show

[russ p]

On days like these...