For those interested in old cars.

[alastairq]

Escort floorpan not the same......nor the rear axle.

 

What is confusing is the fact that the same principles of suspension & steering were used.....ie, Macpherson struts up front, live rear axle, leaf sprung.

 

Some parts were interchangeable between different models in the Ford range......but then, I bet some were interchangeable with Jaguars as well.....?

 

Certainly, no body panels were interchangeable across Ford's range.....

 

Taking this slight interchangeability of parts to its logical conclusion, that would make a SAAB really a FIAT....and no-one would want to agree with that one.....[yet, SAAB, FIAT & LAncia once shared a common platform?]

 

Is a JAguar really an upmarket Mondeo?   Perhaps?

[russ p]

I didn't mean it was the same floorplan, just a similar arrangement.

With regards body panels aren't mk1 escort doors the same as mk2 estate ones?

 

Bizarre body panel interchangeability is sunbeams and avengers

Edited February 12, 2017 by russ p

[Rugd1022]

or a funeral director. Please note that these collectors' items were photographed during a historic cemetery open day.

1970 FORD ZODIAC HEARSE Nunhead Cemetery 19 5 2007.jpg

1977 Cadillac hearse & Chapel Nunhead Cemetery 19 5 2007.jpg

1977 Cadillac hearse Nunhead Cemetery 19 5 2007.jpg

1984 FORD CARDINAL HEARSE Nunhead Cemetery 19 5 2007.jpg

 

Bit of trivia - the 1970 Zodiac hearse was used in the film 'Lez-bian Vampires'!

Edited February 12, 2017 by Rugd1022

[keefr2]

Taking this slight interchangeability of parts to its logical conclusion, that would make a SAAB really a FIAT....and no-one would want to agree with that one.....[yet, SAAB, FIAT & LAncia once shared a common platform?]

 

Is a JAguar really an upmarket Mondeo?   Perhaps?

 

Saab also shared a platform with Vauxhall....

 

And the X-type Jag I believe shared many parts with the then current Mondeo.

[Wolseley]

Here are a few photos from the 2012 All British Display day that might be of interest:

 

Austin Kimberley

 

Leyland Marina:

 

Austin Freeway Station Wagon

 

Austin Lancer

 

Morris Major

 

Morris Major Elite

 

Austin Freeway

 

Humber Vogue (The Vogue was produced in Australia, but was marketed as the Humber Vogue.  There was also the Humber Vogue Sports which was fitted with a Sunbeam Rapier engine.

[russ p]

The isuzu piazza was built on the chevette/ Kaddet platform

[russ p]

I hadn't realised the Kimberly was another 1800 doors vehicle, now that is a story of panel interchangeability

[Bernard Lamb]

Going through some old photos I came across this.

Funny thing is it was in Cape Town.

Bernard

[Wolseley]

I hadn't realised the Kimberly was another 1800 doors vehicle, now that is a story of panel interchangeability

 

 

The Tasman and Kimberley were more or less 1800s with new front and rear ends and a 6 cylinder engine.  I'm pretty sure that Roy Haynes had a hand in the styling, but I'll have to check that and get back to you later (not now though - it's too late and past my bedtime).  The Kimberley was the luxury version with bucket seats, carpets, twin headlights and twin carburettors.  The Tasman had a bench seat, rubber floor mats, single headlights and a single carburettor.

 

It was planned to have a utility version of the Tasman (similar to the 1800 ute) but although there was a prototype built, the utility version never entered production.

[peanuts]

I didn't mean it was the same floorplan, just a similar arrangement.

With regards body panels aren't mk1 escort doors the same as mk2 estate ones?

 

Bizarre body panel interchangeability is sunbeams and avengers

you can use the escort mk11 front wings from the mk11 van/estate  on the mk1 saloon as that was the only differance between the two van/estate models  probley explains the thing with the doors 

[BernardTPM]

Except that, in both cases not one body panel, floorpan or suspension component was shared?

(At least as far as the 2nd type of Capri range was concerned.)

The Mk1&2 cortinas were quite different animals to the later models the earlier ones were more akin to an escort in the suspension department.

The Capri was really a model on its own but the engine line up was similar to the cortina albeit with larger capacity V6s

(re: Capri, etc.)   .....What is confusing is the fact that the same principles of suspension & steering were used.....ie, Macpherson struts up front, live rear axle, leaf sprung.

Yes, the Capri is closer to the Mk.I/II Cortina and I was thinking of the 1969 Capri, rather than the hatchback version. The Escort rear lights were used on the Capri up to the 1972 facelift when it got new light similar in format (but not the same) to the then-new Granada.

 

Bizarre body panel interchangeability is sunbeams and avengers

I reckon the Sunbeam is the spiritual successor to the Hillman Husky, counting the Avenger as the modern Minx (the Arrow Minx was really too large). Done in a very similar way too.

 

Bit of trivia - the 1970 Zodiac hearse was used in the film 'Lez-bian Vampires'!

The hearse and limo versions of the Zodiac Mk.IV helped balance out that massive bonnet!

 

I hadn't realised the Kimberly was another 1800 doors vehicle, now that is a story of panel interchangeability

They were an update of the 1800 shell with a transverse six derived from the Maxi engine that later went into the Wolseley Six in the UK. A one-off Van den Plas 1800 was done that had the same windowless rear pillar.

Edited February 12, 2017 by BernardTPM

[alastairq]

I have to admit a fondness for the 1.0 litre-engined Chrysler/Talbot Sunbeam.

 

Based as the engine was, on the old Imp motor, but in  a front engined, inline mode.  Such a light engine up front made {IMHO, I hasten to add] a much better balanced car of the Sunbeam, compared to the larger [iron?] engine'd versions.

 

If tuned,as per the old Imp techniques, I would have imagined a very nice car to hustle through bendy roads?

 

Once, I had the use of one, many years ago when they were almost 'new'...and borrowed a laRger engined version [15 or 16 hundred CC's??] and found the lightweight small engined car was much more of a delight to drive rapidly.

 

Oh to have one of those engines and gearboxes now?? I can think of one or two of my projects that would seriously benefit from one....?

 

For me, light weight, small capacity, well tuned, is a nicer way to go than heavier, bigger [and thus needing to be a lot more powerful?]...

Edited February 12, 2017 by alastairq

[russ p]

Do the sunbeam engines fit imps or is the crank different.

I used to own a 225bhp sunbeam lotus

[alastairq]

Do the sunbeam engines fit imps or is the crank different.

I used to own a 225bhp sunbeam lotus

 I would say, not likely?  the Imp engines were canted, whereas [iIRC?] the Sunbeam 1.0 litre was upright in mode.....so probably the bellhousing mounting would be different??  {Skoda 136 engines have the same issues, when transplanting a Felicia/Favorit/Fabia 136 engine into a rear-engined Rapid/Estelle]. The heavier, bigger engines used in the Sunbeam were totally different designs.

 

The alloy 1 litre engine used in the Chrysler Sunbeam was totally different to the other engines in the  range.......and was possibly unique to Chrysler?  As I said, it was a development of the alloy engine used in the old Imp range.

 

I'm not certain whether the inline gearbox off the 1 litre sunbeam was the same, or similar, to those used with the bigger capacity, iron engines of the Sunbeam range?

 

The iron engines were as used in the Avenger, etc......

[New Haven Neil]

Whilst driving down to Groudle this morning, coming the other way were a Maxi towing some kind of racing Mini on a trailer, followed by a nice silver Mini, and a wedge Princess, all UK registered.  An odd sight over here in February!  No known reason for them to be here.

[PhilJ W]

The Escort Mk.I and Mk.II estates and vans were identical from the A post rearwards. The vans used the back doors from the previous Anglia vans as well. The Sunbeam Talbot 1,000 cc engine cylinder block, crank and pistons can be used in an Imp, the other bits being the original Imp bits. To keep it cool you could fit a Mk.I Fiesta radiator under the bonnet which made the already fairly good balance even better.

[Wolseley]

The isuzu piazza was built on the chevette/ Kaddet platform

 

 

There was a Holden version as well (it didn't sell very well and is pretty rare these days - last time I saw one was about a year ago).  Someone even wrote a book featuring it:

 

 

 

Chris and Joe take to the road, touring the highways and byways of Australia on a quest to discover what became of the Holden Piazza - possibly the dodgiest car ever to be imported into Australia. A boys' own adventure of cars, cricket commentary, improbable adventures and even more improbable characters.

 

It takes a strong man to resist the strange allure of a Holden Piazza, and at the age of eight, lying on his parents' lounge room floor watching Sale of the Century, Chris Warr didn't stand a chance. An unhealthy obsession was born. 

 

The Holden Piazza, a glossy black wedge-bonneted sports car, was the ultimate prize of prizes on Australia's richest quiz show. Unfortunately it was also frequently the butt of jokes from motoring critics and the general public alike. Its launch in 1986 attracted comments such as, 'Holden Piazza; the answer to the question nobody asked' and 'exhilarating in the hands of an experienced driver . . . dangerous in the hands of others'. So it's not surprising that less than 200 new Holden Piazzas were sold in Australia, and less than 80 are still on Australian roads today.

 

Chris lived with his hidden shame for over a decade, until fate led to a meeting with Joe Kremzer, a fellow Piazza aficionado and a dream was born. Together, they would go in search of the Holden Piazza - indeed they would go in search of the Holden Piazza IN a Holden Piazza - travelling the length and breadth of Australia seeking out owners past and present of this iconic if much maligned vehicle.

 

Their quest results in a quirky, laugh-out-loud adventure, in the tradition of Tony Hawkes (Round Ireland With A Fridge) and Dave Gorman. A rollicking great read for all motoring tragics and anyone who likes a beer and a laugh, In Search of the Holden Piazza is as Australian as pie and sauce or a beat-up FJ Holden.

[russ p]

Wasn't it called the T car platform or something

[peanuts]

wasnt the imp engine based on the coventry climax ? sure i heard this somewhere 

[BernardTPM]

The Escort Mk.I and Mk.II estates and vans were identical from the A post rearwards. The vans used the back doors from the previous Anglia vans as well.

Ford got their money's worth out of those doors! 20 years - 1961-81.

 

Wasn't it called the T car platform or something

Yes, and the Cavalier was the U car. Vauxhall had been looking at making a smaller car based on a cut down Viva (called the S car project). This became part of a bigger co-operative project involving Chevrolet and Opel, though the former dropped out for a while until the 1973 fuel crisis hit.

[Guest]

Ford got their money's worth out of those doors! 20 years - 1961-81.

 

BL got great use out of the 1800's doors as well. They appeared on the Three Litre and Maxi.

[brianusa]

wasnt the imp engine based on the coventry climax ? sure i heard this somewhere 

 

I can't imagine anyone appreciating an Imp!  My Father had one and we used it on a holiday back home and it was an experience to say the least on the Motorway!  Anything around 65 MPH was a noisy, shaky, slow process in total discomfort.  I suppose I may have judged it harshly but I was used to an Olds 98 convertible in the US and had forgotten what British small cars were all about.  The only like size car I owned back then was a (don't laugh) Renault Dauphine which performed quite well including my first trip to Italy.

 

Brian.

[Kickstart]

Taking this slight interchangeability of parts to its logical conclusion, that would make a SAAB really a FIAT....and no-one would want to agree with that one.....[yet, SAAB, FIAT & LAncia once shared a common platform?]

The Type 4 floor project was shared between Fiat, Lancia, Saab and Alfa, giving birth to the Thema, Chroma, 9000 and 164. Even some very obvious parts (the doors on the first 3 were VERY similar). Think Saab designed the heater, with all its problems (stripped stepper motor gears a speciality)

 

Is a JAguar really an upmarket Mondeo?   Perhaps?

 

And the X-type Jag I believe shared many parts with the then current Mondeo.

Yes, the X Type was very closely related to the Mondeo. Although Jaguar launched the X Type with 4wd only to differentiate it at first, with the smaller engined and diesel versions coming out later with fwd. Ford never released a 4wd version of that that generation of the Mondeo.

 

While it is quite closely related, I think they claimed that 80% of the parts are unique to the X Type. Even the V6 engines, while quite closely related, had a fair few differences.

 

When we had one quite a few bits where labelled as Ford. Normally non specific parts like locks, brake light switches, etc.

 

As a car it was OK, but very much a motorway cruiser. Quite soggy and understeer prone handling, and not sporty at all. Transmission felt like it would have been dramatically improved by removing most of the flywheel weight! The 4wd transfer box is the Achilles heel and they decided to put the oil filler hole below the oil level to make it virtually impossible to top the oil up (officially you need to remove the transfer box and do it on the bench), hence they run low on oil and die early.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[brianusa]

We had an X Type and enjoyed it but sadly it was not the most reliable car.  Spent  a lot of time at the dealers who fortunately fixed most problems under warranty and insurance.  It had a lot of bits from the Ford parts box but it had enough Jaguar  to make it feel a different car right down to the Leaper on the bonnet.

 

Brian.

[Wolseley]

My first car was a 1975 Holden Gemini SL, like the 4 door one on the left in this image - it was the same yellow colour too.