Castle Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Hi All, I hve just realised that I haven't posted a picture of the results of all my chat here so thanks to everyone who helped and here it is: The full build is written up here for those interested that haven't seen it yet. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51212-little-didcot/page-19&do=findComment&comment=1075064 Thanks again and all the best, Castle 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
London cambrian Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 Cracking stuff there castle! Lovely little model thats turned out as! maybe showing around at didcot might fire some enthusiasm into restoration of what remains of the full size! Nice one! All the best Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Cracking stuff there castle! Lovely little model thats turned out as! maybe showing around at didcot might fire some enthusiasm into restoration of what remains of the full size! Nice one! All the best Mark I recently asked Didcot if there were any plans to take up the GWR Coral A for restoration. However it seems that the "Coral A is privately owned and, as such, any restoration or conservation work is the responsibility of the owner". Even so then why haven't Didcot asked the owners of the wagon (in this case the 813 Fund) if they can start work on the wagon? I don't seem to see this problem with the wagons on the SVR that are owned by the 813 Fund. Since I have been doing photography on the SVR in 2008, I have seen at least 10 813 Fund wagons going through the Wagon Department at Bewdley with varying levels of restoration work required. At the moment they are working on GWR S&T Van 80982 and GWR Chaired Sleeper 40554. If Didcot hasn't got the plans to work on it, then perhaps the wagon should be transferred to a railway that can restore it? I just find it frustrating how they can just ignore a wagon which is so important and unique and leave to the current state it is in. Sorry if it sounds like a rant but something needs to be done in the case of 41723 soon before it's too late. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
London cambrian Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I'd fear garath its getting towards that stage already! Its gotta be the only wagon onsite with exception of maybe the beetle (which is undercover) and the palvans (which arent much more than storage i dont think) that hasnt had any work done to it since it arrived. would make a very interesting addition to the freight set. And there obviously seems no reason for it not to be restored by didcot like they have at SVR apart from lack of interest, and what i consider may be a more relevant issue, the space it would take up in LOCOMOTIVE works, not the carriage and wagon, because it very definitely needs space in there which it would take up from other big name projects like Pendennis, the saint, the prairie, the county, the dock tank and the 72xx. i suspect thats the issue and obstacle to it. perhaps when a few have left there would be room to consider the coral A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 I'd fear garath its getting towards that stage already! Its gotta be the only wagon onsite with exception of maybe the beetle (which is undercover) and the palvans (which arent much more than storage i dont think) that hasnt had any work done to it since it arrived. would make a very interesting addition to the freight set. And there obviously seems no reason for it not to be restored by didcot like they have at SVR apart from lack of interest, and what i consider may be a more relevant issue, the space it would take up in LOCOMOTIVE works, not the carriage and wagon, because it very definitely needs space in there which it would take up from other big name projects like Pendennis, the saint, the prairie, the county, the dock tank and the 72xx. i suspect thats the issue and obstacle to it. perhaps when a few have left there would be room to consider the coral A. I do agree fully with that. 41723 is not going to be a simple replace parts and paintjob but something where it will have to be completely taken apart and put back together. As you said it would require alot of space to work with and hopefully when some of the locos are completed then maybe it will glanced upon. I do think as well that 813 Fund and GWRS need to know that there is a large amount of interest in getting this wagon restored. If they know about this, then maybe it will increase it chances of being restored sooner. Just through asking the simple question to perhaps setting up a fund to get it sorted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
London cambrian Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 yep, thats about the size of it. But really how big an interest in it is there? We've been discussing it on here, but only half a dozen or so people have expressed their interest in it here. Its a sad fact wagons are the over looked part of preservation. And restoring it would be a very large job as you rightly say. taking it apart is a challenge in itself, theres only a hand full of parts which are bolted, its all other wise rivetted, as well as removing the RSJs in the end of it, which for wall we know are holding to together! any strip down would mean a lot of work to drill out al the rivets, seperate the parts, which will no doubt be heavily corroded together, replace large sections of material which have just wasted beyond redemption, and then replace al the fixings which were removed. inevitably i reckon it would get to a kit of parts stage and be dropped because of other projects. plus there is still a lot unkown about this vehicle, i still havnt been able to confirm there was a central wooden floor on it, though i'm fairly certain looking at the holes in the supporting angle and their lower displacement to the rest of the floors. Its a pessimistic way of looking at it but thats facts. I'd whole heartedly support any attempts at its restoration and rebuild (and it most certainly is a rebuild, though fortunately the vast majority of parts are there for it) but it would require some serious impetus behind it for it to get anywhere in the current position! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Hello guys, Thought I would share some photos of one of my latest wagons; the GWR AA6 PW Toad Van. I recently purchased this from the ebayer who I purchased the GWR Tool Van off a few months before. It is a scratchbuilt wagon which has been made from two GWR Toads. Cannot tell if they are Mainline or Bachmann but it is has been well built. Very faithful to the prototype, of which the last surviving example (40362) is at the Severn Valley Railway at the Kidderminster Station Museum. Garethp8873. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hello again guys! Went down to Bewdley yesterday to do a few things and I came across the newly restored GWR Chaired Sleeper Wagon 40554 (built 1895). Did several detail shots if anyone is looking to do one of these in kit form. All the best! Garethp8873. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garethp8873 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Full mark to the crew who worked on it, they have done a cracking job. Well 81C, It has probably been it's first overhaul since joining the railway. Work began on this around the Autumn Gala in 2009!! If you want to see what they were working with before well here you are... Garethp8873. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Nice pics, Gareth. An interesting survivor of cast number and G.W.R plates, but I'm not convinced by the G W on the ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) ..I'm not convinced by the G W on the ends. Does look a bit odd, though Russell's Appendix has a couple of photos of 40422 and 40437 in 1949 with GW/18T/number in three lines on the central end panels. He also comments "These wagons were amongst the few to retain the custom of numbers and letters being painted on the ends." Does anyone know of a photo of one in 1904 or 1921 livery? Nick Edited August 17, 2013 by buffalo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Does anyone know of a photo of one in 1904 or 1921 livery? :laugh: :blushclear: Edited August 17, 2013 by Kenton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 There is a 1912 photo in Russells Wagon and load book Fig189 shown large end markings on second wagon back from the loco. Thanks. Looking a bit more closely, it can just be seen on several others in that train. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Paul For years I have looked at the Pollens, and never found a kit. I did mess around with some white metal castings, but it never came to anything.Your suite of pictures got me going again with the advent of Shapeways moving to the US. It was also an excellent find in Penaluna Design Studios to initiate the original Pollen C. The Pollen E followed, and the help on this Forum has been tremendous, particularly from "Castle" and his on-site surveys that have added additional detail to do justice to the model. Feedback has also helped with edits to the drawings.Detail in 3D printing is expensive, so the Post-1930 models are based on real world practice, of using the pre-1930 84998-84999 for the model in WSF, with the detail on the Post-1930 Rebuild in FUD. The add-on in FUD also supplies the fine detail for the brake handles. Because there is limited side play for the axles, a sprue of flangeless centre wheels is also supplied as an option. Noel. Edited August 18, 2013 by Dazzler Fan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hi All, I am currently building a pair of Noel's POLLENs and I have a question wich is only partly related but relevant. I am going to use them as bogies in effect for the transportation of a bridge girder. Now, my question is what colour would a bridge girder being transported to the erection site in the late 1940s / early 1950s be? I assume it would be primer but would it be a white lead, red lead, red oxide, grey or other colour? Or were they painted in their finished colour - I presume that the most common colours would be grey or black? Help please! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 There are a number of pictures of out of gauge and abnormal loads in the Hulton library collection LNER Reflections. They include a set of bridge girders. All of them as far as I recall are painted a dark colour (black/dark grey) with white lettering showing manufacturer, sometimes destination or other information. The bridge girders are also marked 'Doncaster End' at the end photographed - presumably to avoid an embarrassing episode when they were unloaded. I have a feeling there's an equivalent volume for the GWR - it might have something similar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Hi Jonathan, Cheers! That was one of my conclusions - that the thing was probably as finished as possible in black paint so it was a kind of fit and forget type thing. Even if it had to be riveted, that would be in such a localised area as to not do too much damage to any anti corrosion treatments. Most of these structures seem to be grey or black so I might go with that. Anyone else got a contribution that says otherwise? Thanks very much! All the best, Castle Edited August 20, 2013 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Jim Russell's Freight Wagons and Loads has several photos that will give you a choice. Some look to be black, some are a mid-grey and others light grey. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Hi Nick, I am liking this - simple, straight out of the Halfords can grey or matt black look to be high on the list! Cheers! Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Hi All, Back on the POLLENs again. I have just had a look at the things trying to discern an appropriate early BR(W) livery and you know what? Its not that easy! The GWR livery is well represented in books and indeed in preservation pictures but the early BR(W) isn’t so clear. I presume that it would be a case of DW + vehicle number, tare weight, GIRDWAG WE and possibly wheelbase but the order is different according to different wagons due to the fact that the brakes are in different places on the rebuilt centre wagons to the two original end wagons and it looks like a minefield of potentially getting it wrong! Any thoughts or picture that I haven't got access to please? I have look at the erstwhile Mr Bartlett's site but that only shows either GWR or late BR... Thanks in advance! All the best, Castle EDIT: the picture that is in Russell Wagons says GIRDER WE and not GIRDWAG WE and the number prefix is W not DW. The trouble is that it is of the ex centre wagons (Nos. 84998 & 84999) and not the unrebuilt end wagons (Nos. 84997 & 85000 - the ones I am doing!) . As a result, all the information is in different places as the brakes were in different places to the original end wagons and both the conversions had brakes in different places too... Confused? You will be! Edited August 20, 2013 by Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Hi All, Back on the POLLENs again. I have just had a look at the things trying to discern an appropriate early BR(W) livery and you know what? Its not that easy! The GWR livery is well represented in books and indeed in preservation pictures but the early BR(W) isn’t so clear. I presume that it would be a case of DW + vehicle number, tare weight, GIRDWAG WE and possibly wheelbase but the order is different according to different wagons due to the fact that the brakes are in different places on the rebuilt centre wagons to the two original end wagons and it looks like a minefield of potentially getting it wrong! Any thoughts or picture that I haven't got access to please? I have look at the erstwhile Mr Bartlett's site but that only shows either GWR or late BR... Thanks in advance! All the best, Castle EDIT: the picture that is in Russell Wagons says GIRDER WE and not GIRDWAG WE and the number prefix is W not DW. The trouble is that it is of the ex centre wagons (Nos. 84998 & 84999) and not the unrebuilt end wagons (Nos. 84997 & 85000 - the ones I am doing!) . As a result, all the information is in different places as the brakes were in different places to the original end wagons and both the conversions had brakes in different places too... Confused? You will be! I cannot help with the early BR livery - depending on the works that repaints them the sides would have been considered to be frame (therefore black) or body and therefore grey. However, BR doesn't appear to have used D prefix for ex revenue wagons used by the engineers until the 1960s (I would love to know when this change came, I have asked in more suitable places without result). OK, so W84997 - 85000 GIRDWAG WE appear in the Sept 1959 Classification of Special Wagons but not in the Jan 1964 edition - which suggests that they will have been transferred to the engineers during that period - the booklet wouldn't list engineers stock. Of course a lovely wagon for the 1980s modeller as BR repainted in GW. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrgirdwagpollen Regards Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 Hi Paul, Thanks for the input. The frames appear to be grey but the weird thing is that the axle boxes and the springs look black. I suspect, as it looked to be VERY rough, that it is due to the fact that they have been covered in grease and oil to preserve them. They must have been on a very occasional use and spent long periods of time sat outside at the end of a siding so lashings of gunk to keep the oxide monsters at bay was probably the order of the day. The black gunk is also on the pivot points for the brake cross shaft and the pivot for the brake handle too. I wonder if the position of the numbers seen on the pictures on your website would have changed as the paint looks pretty old and the D has definitely been added. Perhaps I will just do the number and 60t in a black panel on the rear of the wagons as they are in your pictures, the wheelbase in a little panel at the front like Russell and choose a space between the axle boxes (probably the forward one) for the GIRDER WE markings. Any thoughts? This seems best guess... All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Hi All, Out of interest, the first of the two POLLEN E pairs are now on Little Didcot here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/51212-little-didcot/page-21 Thanks for the help everyone! All the best, Castle 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfaZagato Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I think I missed it somewhere, but does anyone do Pollens in N? Or a Crocodile G? The whole reason I want the Crocodile is so I can do one of the coastal defense guns. Found a picture of it in A History of GWR Goods Wagons and fell in love with it. Or maybe a Totem, too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbr Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Please forgive my returning to the Coral but I have only just come across this thread. Castle, many thanks for your (other) thread in which you re-built the K's kit and improved the racks. I have a couple of the K's kits I want to do the same with and your pictures are a great help. I have also been looking at Tourret and have a couple of questions that someone may be able to provide answers to. The D2 Coral A was built in 2 batches in 1898 & 1908. The 1898 batch was built with the Thomas brake which was eventually replaced (no idea of a date) by the DC version, but with a handle only at one end whereas the 1908 batch was built with the DC brake. Castle's model and the 1941 photo of 41722 have the DC brake handle at both ends and I recall the Board of Trade (or some body) requiring brake handles to be on both sides at the right hand end. I know conformity did not happen overnight, but after what date would the change have taken place? Was the batch of 1908 built with a handle at both ends? (41722 was of the 1908 batch.) My other question refers to the shackles. The plan in Tourret and photos do not show any shackles but the 1941 photo of 14722 does. Has anyone any idea when the shackles might have been put on to the wagons? Was the 1908 batch built with them? It would seem that in the early days, the weight of the load, down in the well and being clamped in the framework, might have been considered sufficient to have a secure load, so why and when did the shackles make an appearance? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? David Edited November 22, 2013 by davidbr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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