A question of colour

[armchair modeler]

I bought a Bachmann cylindrical hopper decorated in the “Take an Alberta break” livery.  The body colour is, to my eye, light or sky blue with yellow lettering.  I am sure you will know the model I mean, it is all over ebay.

I also bought a cylindrical hopper car in the “Take an Alberta break” livery, made by Intermountain. To my eye the blue is much, much darker. Somewhere after Royal blue and on the way to Navy blue.

Could someone please advise me as to which is the correct colour, or at least which of the two manufacturers versions is closest?

I would like to think that “Intermountain” being at, perhaps, the upper end of the market would be more accurate, but I also suspect that they may have been let down by someone in China looking at photographs of road used and dirty cars  and picking a colour that represents a heavily weathered and grime coloured hopper.

I know that there are a lot of variables when looking at colour photographs especially on a computer screen.

A very long winded way of asking a very simple question:-   Who has the colour right. Bachmann or Intermountain?

 

Armchair

 

[Adrian Wintle]

Here is the prototype of the car shown on the Intermountain website

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1125373

 

more examples here http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rslist.aspx?id=ALPX&cid=4&Page=2

 

I'd say the Bachmann blue is a bit light and the Intermountain a bit bright (but a closer match)

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=2122

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/html/45118.htm

 

Adrian

[pH]

Going by the illustrations on the Walthers website, I would say the Intermountain one is closer to the prototype as newly painted. Weathering can fade the blue quite noticeably, but the Bachmann one is obviously meant to represent a newly painted car, so I would say it's less correct.

 

Just to confuse you, look at this - it looks as if the lettering has been applied over the existing blue: http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=alnx396019&o=alberta

[doctor quinn]

The slope ends on the Intermountain model are correct for "Trudeau" hoppers. The Bachmann version is modelled on Canadian built cars for the US market.

 

The Canadian operated cars had a capacity of 4550 cubic feet but US shippers wanted 4650 cu ft so National Steel Car added "steps" in the end sheets to add 100 cu ft to the capacity. Operators of the Bachmann type included; ATSF, Seaboard System and plain grey CP cars with CPI reporting marks.

 

Hope this helps

 

Nick

[armchair modeler]

I am grateful for the replies so far and the pictures for reference.

 

Now at the risk of being seen as kicking this thing to death, I want to share a bit more information as I am still not convinced that the IMRC models I have are the correct colour blue.

 

I have obtained the following models. 45118-22 Car no. 628448 Gull Lake. 45118-23 Car no. 628487 Oyen. 45118-24 Car no. 628506 Raymond. The three models were made in China and were purchased, second hand (used) from a private individual in Scotland.

The blue is much darker than I anticipated. It is more a navy blue than the sky blue I expected. It does not appear to be correct against the colour used by Bachmann for their cylindrical hopper model, it does not appear to be correct against photographs available on the internet and it does not appear to be correct against my recollection of seeing the actual vehicles in Alberta.

Also the hopper outlet pods and the undersides of the vehicles are black, whereas illustrations on the web of Intermountain models and the prototype vehicle, show the undersides to be the same colour as the body of the vehicle.

So I am still at a bit of a loss as to the correct livery. These seem too dark. They are factory produced models and have not been subject to the previous owner repainting them. The vehicles match the boxes they were supplied in.

Are these particular models I have from a "bad batch" where the paint scheme has been wrongly applied but IMRC have released them anyway?

 

I wrote to Richard Frazier at IMRC in July last year. As yet, No reply.

Paul Ford
Liverpool UK

[Adrian Wintle]

I am grateful for the replies so far and the pictures for reference.

 

Now at the risk of being seen as kicking this thing to death, I want to share a bit more information as I am still not convinced that the IMRC models I have are the correct colour blue.

 

I have obtained the following models. 45118-22 Car no. 628448 Gull Lake. 45118-23 Car no. 628487 Oyen. 45118-24 Car no. 628506 Raymond. The three models were made in China and were purchased, second hand (used) from a private individual in Scotland.

 

The blue is much darker than I anticipated. It is more a navy blue than the sky blue I expected. It does not appear to be correct against the colour used by Bachmann for their cylindrical hopper model, it does not appear to be correct against photographs available on the internet and it does not appear to be correct against my recollection of seeing the actual vehicles in Alberta.

 

Also the hopper outlet pods and the undersides of the vehicles are black, whereas illustrations on the web of Intermountain models and the prototype vehicle, show the undersides to be the same colour as the body of the vehicle.

 

So I am still at a bit of a loss as to the correct livery. These seem too dark. They are factory produced models and have not been subject to the previous owner repainting them. The vehicles match the boxes they were supplied in.

 

Are these particular models I have from a "bad batch" where the paint scheme has been wrongly applied but IMRC have released them anyway?

 

I wrote to Richard Frazier at IMRC in July last year. As yet, No reply.

 

Paul Ford

Liverpool UK

 

It is certainly quite possible that Intermountain have changed both the colour of blue and the colour of the hopper doors during the course of the (long) production run of these. The ones you mention are the 22nd, 23rd, and 24th running numbers in the series, where the link I gave earlier reflects the 49th to 54th running numbers.If there were problems with the original colours, it is possible that Intermountain have responded to feedback from customers. I do note that the logo positioning still isn't quite right. The other possibility is that they based the paint on an actual pain chip/paint number and for reasons of scale it came out looking too dark (colour doesn't scale well)

 

The colour of the hopper doors could easily have been misinterpreted originally - see the prototype photo I posted earlier.

 

Adrian

[AndrewC]

Just to add to the confusion there are differences between the rtr and kit versions of the Intermountain hopper. The kit was a slightly lighter shade of blue. My understanding is the later rtr runs were specified by PWRS and the colour is based on their specifications taken from the builder. The blue as specified by the Alberta government would have been "Alberta Heraldic Blue" Pantone 386. Edit: typo on reference material Pantone 286 is correct.

 

 

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=alnx396058&o=alberta this shows a definite blue tint to the underside. I'm sure the entire tub was blue from the builder. The shape of the hopper and d it just makes it appear black..

[armchair modeler]

Thanks Andrew

 

That is the sort of info I was looking for.  However when I check "pantone 386" on Google, it comes back as a pale lime green going to yellow.

 

Could you please check again for the colour code.  I will continue to search for Alberta heritage blue but so far big G just goes to heritage sites not colours.

 

Thanks

 

AC

[pH]

Definitely blue underneath from these cleaner examples

 

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=alnx396215&o=alberta

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=alpx628367_2&o=alberta

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=alpx628400&o=alberta

http://freight.railfan.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=alpx628367&o=alberta

 

[armchair modeler]

Okay I think I have it.  I checked Pantone 2 86 and I think that was the one you meant.  Just a typo and me being far to hasty which got me in this mess in the first place.

 

AC

[armchair modeler]

Thanks pH  Great photos thanks for searching them out.  The blue is not as light as the Bachmann version but neither is it as dark as the IMRC models I have.  Looks like a trip to the car spray mixer shop is required and see if he knows the formula for Pantone 286

 

Thanks to everyone for the help so far.  Any more advice please keep it comming. I need all the help I can get!

[AndrewC]

Did the phone a friend. The number I was given was wrong, 286 is correct. The Alberta logo and colour scheme has since been changed. 386 is in the new official pallet. The new look may make it onto the Heritage fund hoppers eventually. For now though its correct. The big danger of course is when you scale something down it will always look darker. If I get a chance tomorrow I'll dig out some of my old provincial stuff (high school diploma, etc) and compare the printed colour to one of my hoppers.

 

I wouldn't get too fussed about getting the exact match as after a couple of weeks in the prairie sun the blue would have changed hue.

[AndrewC]

Ok, so we're now delving into the depths of retentiveness.

 

2 Intermountain grain cars. The top one dating from circa 1999 and is the original kit. Note the 2 colours used for the "Heritage Fund" and numbering in the original scheme. The bottom one is from a commissioned PWRS batch from around 2006. Looking at just the ends of the cars the colour match is almost exact. However side by side, the larger expanse of yellow on the second car makes the blue appear darker.

 

the background is an Alberta provincial flag with coat of arms. The flag colour is specified as Alberta Heraldic Blue.

 

Note that both models are lighter than the flag. On their own they look much darker. Especially true when viewed under incandescent lighting. Its very likely that the colour of the model has been lightened to compensate for scale. It may also be that different batches of the cars (model) would have been produced in different factories. Some batches may have been scale compensated as below, others may have used the AH blue exactly. That would make the model appear far too dark.

 

 

If you really want to lighten your cars without having to resort to a full repaint, you may want to consider giving them a light, and I mean light dusting with a very pale grey just to fade the blue a bit.

[roundhouse]

Dullcote also sometimes ever so slightly lightens the colour.

 

Ian

[vcltel]

This topic of colour rendition bedevils all types of modelling. When items are viewed from a distance the colour appears to fade (grey out) due to the atmospheric pollution. If you've been to the Grand Canyon you will know what I mean - the other rim appears very much lighter in colour than the nearby rock faces.

 

To get a real appreciation of whether the Alberta flag's blue is the same as the model finish the flag should be at a distance which makes it appear 1/87th of its current size. I saw that demonstrated by a model plane which was painted in the genuine finish employed by the RAF, it looked all wrong and much too dark. Anyway, paints fade, chalk and acquire coats of grime in service. The strong sunlight in America will play havoc with some pigments I'm afraid, though blues are generally more stable than reds for example. I'm afraid that there is no easy answer to this problem.