class"66" Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 More interesting photos jim!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lurker Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I was watching The Autistic Gardener last night and the garden backed onto a line somewhere in South London. One of the autistic apprentice horticulturalists was very distracted by passing trains, and there were many shots of him saying" I can hear a freight train coming. Oh its Colas Rail, and then a number." . It wouldn't have been Jim but it made me think of him and this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markmiller2008 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 a few from yesterday, basford hall to hinksey and back to bescot basford hall 57s on the flask train 66 shunting my loco arriving and coupled up to 34 coalfish and off i went, first stop bordesley loop where a few things went past voyager chiltern 168 172 168 68 heading for wembley then on to dorridge 68 heading for stourbridge and into hinksey, dropped the wagons off and headed back to bescot ready to depart hinksey and into bescot going back again later to pick up the same loco to take back down to didcot with a train (and ultimately slough) Hi Jim, Was this the night i photted you through Leamington? Il post that photo tomorrow once ive got home and edited it. Mark 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 25, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 25, 2015 Quite probably the same day, you were out photographing me twice that week! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Markmiller2008 Posted July 26, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2015 (edited) Hi Jim The below photo was on the 18th, the only night i think i had my camera as the 68 charter was coming through. Colas 70804 by Mark Miller, on Flickr Mark Edited July 26, 2015 by Markmiller2008 32 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) lovely picturesorry its taken so long to reply, back from the wilderness (solway firth) for a few hours so i have 4G on the ipad and can finally see pictures on the forum EDIT: actually mark, its not the same night, you photographed 804 and my pics are 806, i defiantly waved to you twice that week! Edited July 28, 2015 by big jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post big jim Posted July 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2015 a few from today, made my way from our caravan back to crewe in readyness for work later tonight, caught the train from wigton to carlisle then on to crewe just so happened that the cumbrian coast train was one of the loco hauled sets with a DBSO arriving into wigton sheltering from the rain! DBSO 37402 tour de france 158 another DBSO with lots of measuring equipment on the front you wait for one...... heading back out to the coast thats it for now, heading back north later with the logs 30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2015 Interesting night last night, started off by noticing that the sleeper was running late into crewe, so much so my train arrived before it whereas the sleeper is normally a good hour in front, i overheard one of the platform staff saying it was running at a reduced speed So off i set, dropped the other driver off at warrington and i continued north, got stopped outside wigan, contacted the box via the gsm-r at the red signal and got a 'wait' so i sat and waited until he rang me to say the train in front had failed and i would be needed to assist him, await signal and for him to call me back A good 40 mins went by before i got a call, i was going to buffer up and push him into the rear platform at wigan station before setting back onto the mainline to continue north , the driver of the failed train had placed emergency protection down and i had the authority to pass the signal at danger and proceed to the protection point to pick up the driver, his train was a class 90 which had failed with total loss of power Picked him up and going by the latest rules had to run over the 3 detonators he had placed down which was fun at 01:30! Buffered up, coupled up and once we were set to move i pushed him forward into the station, he still had full control of the brake, just no power, so we didnt attach the brake pipes, we basically braked our own individual trains, we of course were only moving at walking pace anyway Once in clear i uncoupled and under the watchful eye of the local MOM (mobile operations manager) set my train back behind the junction signal before waiting for it to change to a proceed aspect to continue north, thankfully i was 45 early before wigan so after all the messing about only ended up about 30 late from there Just one pic of my train coupled to the rear of the failed car train Before i set off again i checked realtime and could see the sleeper was 77 late from crewe so it must have had big problems, he was however just south of warrington by now Got a good run before preston box put me in at barton and boughton loop to let a class 4 past, by now the sleeper was in preston and only 10 mins behind me so i thought he'd hold me and let him pass but no, once the class 4 went i was back out, must be going in at carnforth, no, straight through there, grayrigg it is as i had a feeling the sleeper was catching me up, no, past there too, definatly tebay then, again, no, greens all the way, penrith seemed unlikely and i was right, straight through there too, finally dropped into kingmoor at about 05:10 and had run round and was about to set back when the sleeper finally went past, looking at RTT once id finished shunting revealed that it had lost futher time between lancaster and carlisle and when it passed me it certainly wasnt going as quick as it normally does! Right behind that sleeper was the 2nd northbound service (edinburgh and glasgow train) which was at a crawl too as it was running on restrictive aspects behind the first sleeper then to top it all the southbound sleeper went past running about 3 hours late with 66710 up front and a 67 providing the ETH, not a good night for the caledonian sleeper at all by the looks of it The final thing to pass was the failed car train, this time with a pair of 90s up front, they must have managed to find a spare one on warrington to pilot it 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Jim, Sounds like you had an interesting evening then by all accounts!! Although detonators at that time in the morning!! Bet the locals must have loved been woken by that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium SM42 Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2015 I'm told the sleeper had some problems south of Rugby which meant it could only run at a reduced speed, hence you had a good run Jim as you were faster than it was. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2015 Yes, ive since found out it had wheel flats so was restricted to 50mph The southbound 66/67 combo never made it to london either apparently, 66 failed at MK but there was also a fatality in the watford area which stopped everything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DRS Crewe On A Mission Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2015 So last night a DBS 90 failed on the cars, a Caledonian electric loco failed on the sleeper and 66710 also failed on the sleeper going the other way? Am I right in thinking that the operator is fined for loco failures? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCML100 Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 sounds like an interesting night for you then haha Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2015 So last night a DBS 90 failed on the cars, a Caledonian electric loco failed on the sleeper and 66710 also failed on the sleeper going the other way? Am I right in thinking that the operator is fined for loco failures? They aren't 'fined' as such but they have to pay a 'clear the line' recovery fee which was originally £1,000 and I presume that by now it would have at least doubled from its 1994 level. (the money is paid to whichever operator's loco etc is used to do the recovery so it looks as if Jim earned his employers 'a bit extra' by shoving the other train out of the way). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DRS Crewe On A Mission Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2015 Thank you for letting me know. It probably doesn't cost the operator with the failed loco as much as what I thought then. I was thinking a fine to be paid to Network Rail or something along those lines (no pun intended). It's good that the money paid to the other operator isn't too much as this doesn't have too much of an effect on the operator with the failed loco. So really when it comes to these situations the FOCs have to work together even if they are rivals. It also provides an interesting experience for the drivers involved as it's not every day you have to "shove" a train from behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steadfast Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 29, 2015 Presumably on top of that recovery fee there's also the delay minutes Mike? They can add up very quickly! Something I've been meaning to ask you Jim, but keep forgetting to is the bell that rings on a 70- what's it for? It's ages since I've been involved in a situation with more than one 70 on a train, but from memory it's when the driver is de isolating a trailing loco or any other similar operation, there seems to be a fire bell type noise ringing all the time, I think it was a top and tail train with the rear loco being fired up on arrival at the yard that is the usual situation I've noticed it, but like I said I've not spent much time around 70s lately. I didn't realise isolating a class 70 took so much time though, especially compared to a 66 or a 59 with the E70 lever jo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2015 Something I've been meaning to ask you Jim, but keep forgetting to is the bell that rings on a 70- what's it for? It's ages since I've been involved in a situation with more than one 70 on a train, but from memory it's when the driver is de isolating a trailing loco or any other similar operation, there seems to be a fire bell type noise ringing all the time, I think it was a top and tail train with the rear loco being fired up on arrival at the yard that is the usual situation I've noticed it, but like I said I've not spent much time around 70s lately. the bell is simply a warning alarm, the best way it was described to me is "it goes off to warn you that the loco is about to do something" rather than there being a problem with the loco, it goes off when isolating a loco as its warning you the loco could roll away (obviously its coupled to a train etc or it will roll away!) when firing up a loco it goes off to warn you the loco will be starting, much in the same way a 66 has the starting claxons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post big jim Posted July 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2015 few more pics one from last night, not fantastic but it was pitch black and raining hard and some from this evening, caught the train from carlisle to crewe to work the logs back there later 156 coming in from newcastle, this departs carlisle for middlesborough TPE 350 tyne yard to kingmoor service pendolino hopefully tonight will be a better trip north than yesterday 22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2015 Presumably on top of that recovery fee there's also the delay minutes Mike? They can add up very quickly! jo Yes, good point. Delay minutes apply in all cases but obviously if there is a train failure and it mucks up/delays other operators it can indeed turn into big money. I haven't got a clue what figures are involved - back in the late '90s my TOC was on £100 per minute and we also got hammered for early running. Nice bit of contractual debate there as that was a nonsense and the Trackies couldn't contractually make it stick and we had one train which regularly ran early and didn't delay anything else in the process. In the end after considerable 'debate' they agreed to write-off our bill - just as well as it was just over a million quid (built up over 3 - 4 years I should add)l Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2015 Ive got in my head a figure of £300 a minute and thats going back to the early 2000s so it may well be more now As stationmaster says its a complex beast this 'delay attribution' take for example last night, that made us late into kingmoor which in turn could have knocked our log loading time, if the southbound logs then left late as a result then the delay could be traced back to the inbound delay and ultimatly the failure of 6x52 If then as a result of us running late we delay say a passenger service they will 'claim' the delay off us however we can then claim the delay off the FOC who failed last night, similarly if that delay then escalates and delays another service (or many others throughout the day) then the various toc/foc will trace the delay back to origin even if its from a previous day Im not sure any money physically changes hands either, it could be that minutes are wiped off 'the tab' as it were As a driver its quite important to be aware of 'delay attribution' so you can report anomalies in a schedule where delays are occuring, i remember back in fastline days we had a liverpool to ironbridge job that gave you 3 minutes to cover a certain stretch of line which was an impossibility short of doing 50mph round a 15mph curve, so it was highlighted and found that the schedule was indeed wrong, it was adjusted accordingly and no more delays were incured from that point As it happens im currently stood on crewe station awaiting my train and the sleeper is about 2 hours late, a knock on effect from yesterday, that being the driver of yesterdays southbound service has not had sufficiant rest to be able to work the northbound service on time this evening, that could impact on other services later in the day or even on me later if i have to make an unscheduled stop in a loop to let him pass And you thought it was just pull a lever and go!! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 I don't know what the process is nowadays Jim but it used to be balanced to take account of pluses and minuses before any money changed hands. In addition there was a system known as 'benchmarking' which was supposed to be used to take out inconsistencies but in my experience wasn't because hardly anybody understood it (a consequence mainly of the process being dealt with by access and contract people who normally had little or no understanding of either operating or, even more importantly train timing - thus benchmarking should, if used correctly, have resolved your incorrect timing until it was corrected). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammy Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Brilliant pics as ever Jim but one question about you pushing the class 90 and car train as I'm a bit nieve had you still got your load behind your train the class 60 I'm guessing by the lights Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko22 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) One thing that has suprised me, Mike you said how you use to get penalties on early running services!! Now I understand if an early departure causes delays to on time services but if not why fine the operator. Plus couldnt the arguement be that a service leaving early ultimatly comes down to the signalbox allowing the service depart early? Edited July 30, 2015 by acko22 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 30, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 One thing that has suprised me, Mike you said how you use to get penalties on early running services!! Now I understand if an early departure causes delays to on time services but if not why fine the operator. Plus couldnt the arguement be that a service leaving early ultimatly comes down to the signalbox allowing the service depart early? In our case the most common train regularly involved used to gain time in running because there was an empty path in front of it. This meant it could legitimately gain at least 5 minutes without hitting any other train for time but in addition a certain signalbox usually also kept the train ahead of the empty path out of the way as well if it was losing time although invariably it wasn't further delayed as a result. So all rather silly but the clowns in Trackie land piled loads of delay minutes onto us from our early running. We were in a situation where we couldn't alter the times because our paths had to fit heavily constrained situations at both ends although one occasion I upset our commercial people who were cheerfully talking up publicity about future train acceleration and reduced journey times by telling them I could give them an even bigger reduction in journey time from the following week if they wanted it on that particular train. It all came back really to a lack of understanding of the use of benchmarking and nobody (in the access arena) being bright enough to apply it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 30, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2015 Brilliant pics as ever Jim but one question about you pushing the class 90 and car train as I'm a bit nieve had you still got your load behind your train the class 60 I'm guessing by the lights Yeah my train was still attached, only 700(ish) tons and he was about 800 tons so no problem moving it, as the train was still attached thats why i needed the MOM to set me back, if i was just a loco i could have changed ends once he was clear and moved clear of the signal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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