RMweb Premium Popular Post rcf Posted March 24, 2013 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Hi Everyone Those of you who have followed my topic Osney will have seen pictures of The Shed at the start of that thread, and now that work has almost finished on that project they will also have seen my reference to having another look at TS. To recap TS is a small 0 gauge layout measuring 6 feet by 16 inches overall with the scenic section being 5 feet. It portrays a small single road steam engine shed in the late fifties set in the western region of BR. It has a slightly larger allocation of locos than would normally be expected in a shed of this size. This is due to the fact that it is located on a junction of two secondary lines an also provides locos for a number of branch lines in the area. Below are some recent pictures which managed to catch a couple of panniers in between duties on the Osney branch. The reason I am returning to TS is that since it was completed I have been acutely aware that there is a glaring problem with the layout which I have been reluctant to put right until now. The layout has been referred to as a tuning fork and what people are not aware is that one prong doesn't have any power. Any loco on the coal stage siding is merely posed for effect! When I was building the layout I layed the track, wired it and thoroughly tested it and everything worked. I then carried on with all the scenic work and my mistake was not testing the track again before almost completing the scenic work. When I did I had immediate shorting problems on the point and despite all attempts to resolve the problem I could only get the main shed road to work consistently. Research quickly showed that this was a common problem with DCC and that I should have rewired the point before putting it down. The next photo illustrates my problem, You will see that the point is in an extremely tight location and even to try and rewire it in situ would be difficult, let alone taking it up and rewiring it properly. As I couldn't face doing anything, having so recently finished the scenic work I decided to cut my losses and operate with just the one siding. However when you know something is wrong it niggles away at you until you decide to do something about the problem, which is the point at which I am now. I have been greatly inspired by the layout Abercynon (Fach), elsewhere on this forum, which is a beautifully modelled shed layout with great atmosphere, but which is entirely pointless. So I have decided to look at the possibility of taking up the point on TS and substituting a short sector plate. Whichever route I go down I am faced with removing much of the scenic work. I am hoping to do as little damage as possible so that at the end of the day you won't notice the 'join'. Thats the plan which I will approach step by slow step and I thought I would share the progress with you all. I must be mad! Regards Rob Edited June 15, 2022 by rcf Photos added 29 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Lovely modelling. Can't beat a pair of panniers Who's kit is the water crane ? Edited March 24, 2013 by steve fay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted March 24, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2013 Lovely modelling. Can't beat a pair of panniers Who's kit is the water crane ? Thanks Steve, I often think there should be a collective name for a lot of panniers, perhaps a 'pride of panniers' or something, although it has been suggested that I think too much!! The water crane is an old Mike's Models kit but the heater is Scale Link. Rob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Hi Just found your thread, fantastic detailing from a big LNER fan who lives in Swindon. Regards David Edited March 24, 2013 by landscapes 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Thanks I will track down a few for my Canton project. Pride of panniers. Yes I would go with that, Any grouping of GW locos would be a pride in my book. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted March 26, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Oooops! I decided there was no point thinking about it any longer. I had measured as much as I could with everything in place, so as I was feeling in a particularly bad mood today I thought I would take it out on the layout, but carefully! The buildings have come up with only minimal damage and although ballasting track can be tedious, try removing old ballast. Now I can at least get at the area I want to work on and see how the changed track layout will work. Will report on progress in due course. Rob Edited June 15, 2022 by rcf Photos added 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 lovely scenics. I'm sure you'll feel better when it's all working. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourthsVeil Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Though you suffer NOW, I think it's quite the right decision. I can only underline what rob D2 said. Waiting for your progress reports! Armin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted March 26, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2013 lovely scenics. I'm sure you'll feel better when it's all working. Though you suffer NOW, I think it's quite the right decision. I can only underline what rob D2 said. Waiting for your progress reports! Armin Thanks for the encouragement. Once I had made the first cut, so to speak, I got quite excited at the thought of getting things the way it should be. I intend to take things slowly to make sure I get it right this time. Thanks again for the comments. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted March 26, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2013 So which supermarket has bought the land? Kev. (getting me coat on..) 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Lovely to see this layout! So often, these jobs aren't as bad in reality as the anticipation makes them out to be..... It'll be very worthwhile! More stunning modelling here. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I know what you mean about Peco points. On the last layout my dad did I tested all th track and it was fine, As soon as it was ballasted then all the issues started. I had to wire extra pickups and an on off switch to power the point for one particular direction. Funny thing was on the other point I had to wire the additional point on the opposite side. It all worked you just had to remember to flick the switch when you changed the point. You would think Peco might alter the wiring on there points if there prone to problems. Are you going to replace the point with a hand built one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted March 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2013 I know what you mean about Peco points. On the last layout my dad did I tested all th track and it was fine, As soon as it was ballasted then all the issues started. I had to wire extra pickups and an on off switch to power the point for one particular direction. Funny thing was on the other point I had to wire the additional point on the opposite side. It all worked you just had to remember to flick the switch when you changed the point. You would think Peco might alter the wiring on there points if there prone to problems. Are you going to replace the point with a hand built one? Hi Steve Interesting that you had exactly the same problem as I did. Peco say there is no problem but they do provide instructions on how to re-wire. You will gather that my main interest is in the scenics as I try and create a picture of steam as I remember it, sadly I am that old,and I am happy to use peco track and rtr stock as part of that picture when suitably painted and weathered. So if the point is replaced it will be peco and suitably wired, indeed on the assumption that the point would be damaged when lifted I aquired a replacement some time ago for the day when I decided to resolve the problem. However, seeing Abercynon on this forum gave me the impetus to do something about the issue as I realised there was an alternative in line with my philosophy of keeping everything simple and that is to take the two sidings to the FY and provide a sector plate to link them. Operationally it will provide the same solution and will not cause me any concern over reliability, especially if TS ever gets invited to a show again! So at the moment that is the plan. Incidentally I am following the build of your own new layout with interest. Regards Rob 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted March 31, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) Well, I am a bit further forward. I have had to cut back some more of the ground cover and am definitely going to lose the small lean to shed on the rear retaining wall, but it looks as though the sector plate idea may work. I have also had to increase the size of the opening in the sky but only slightly. The sector plate is in position and the two tracks are loosely positioned. Now I need to wire up the track, one of my least favourite jobs, and then get it fixed down. With that done I can get on with the scenic work and hopefully restore it all to where it was before the wrecking ball moved in! Cheers Rob Edited June 15, 2022 by rcf Photos added 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 What a cracking micro layout very atmospheric, inspirational, great stuff George.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warspite Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Rob Clearly the right decision in the end. I've just discovered a similar problem with one of my well-ballasted points and will need to 'remove and re-lay'. Luckily, mine is in not such a cramped position. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted March 31, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2013 Rob Clearly the right decision in the end. I've just discovered a similar problem with one of my well-ballasted points and will need to 'remove and re-lay'. Luckily, mine is in not such a cramped position. Stephen This does seem to be a real problem as I noticed someone else on a different forum had had the same thing happen. I know I was extremely careful when I painted and ballasted the point but still failed to prevent it happening. What a cracking micro layout very atmospheric, inspirational, great stuff George.. Thanks George, glad you like it. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted April 2, 2013 Share Posted April 2, 2013 Hi Rob,Firstly, I'd just like to say I'm glad TS has its' own threadI thought it was superb from the very first couple of pics I saw of it......Secondly, I was just wondering exactly what the wiring problem with Peco points is?I used one on a previous layout, and had no problems - appart from needing to thoroughly clean the sides ofthe switch rails, after ballasting and spraying.....Is it that you need to re-wire the ties to the stock rails?Thirdly, Having seen Abercynon Fach in the flesh -It's a real cracker! Brian hinted at wanting to build this layout for some timeI too thought about a "pointless" layout - but put that idea out of my mind....... I know it's an odd thing, but I do think points can add to the scenehowever, after seeing AF, I have since changed my mind, and scribbled a few more plans!I'm pleased you have started work on re-laying your track though.....and I don't think TS will lose any of its' atmosphere or interestI'm sure you will re-model it into a super micro anyway Let me know your thoughts on the re-wiringCheers againMarc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted April 2, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 2, 2013 Hi Rob, Firstly, I'd just like to say I'm glad TS has its' own thread I thought it was superb from the very first couple of pics I saw of it...... Secondly, I was just wondering exactly what the wiring problem with Peco points is? I used one on a previous layout, and had no problems - appart from needing to thoroughly clean the sides of the switch rails, after ballasting and spraying..... Is it that you need to re-wire the ties to the stock rails? Thirdly, Having seen Abercynon Fach in the flesh - It's a real cracker! Brian hinted at wanting to build this layout for some time I too thought about a "pointless" layout - but put that idea out of my mind.... ... I know it's an odd thing, but I do think points can add to the scene however, after seeing AF, I have since changed my mind, and scribbled a few more plans! I'm pleased you have started work on re-laying your track though..... and I don't think TS will lose any of its' atmosphere or interest I'm sure you will re-model it into a super micro anyway Let me know your thoughts on the re-wiring Cheers again Marc Good to hear from you Marc. Taking your last comment about my building 'it into a super micro' first, no pressure there then! I really don't know what the issue is on the points, but others have obviously had similar problems. I was very careful when initially painting and ballasting but it still caused shorting on my NCE Powercab as soon as the loco hit the toe of the point. I tried extra cleaning but nothing helped. The solution according to peco is to connect the switch blades to the stock rails and cut the wiring under the frog and that, for me, would have meant lifting the point. This means you have to use a switch to change the polarity on the frog. You also need to insure the point is isolated from the track. I will never know whether this would have worked as I am now going down a different route, but next time... I tend to agree that points do add something to the layout and it is strange to consider building a layout without any, certainly something I would not have considered a few years ago. However the idea of building without, does appeal to my idea of simplicity and it definitely works with Abercynon. As I get older 'simple' becomes ever more attractive! Cheers Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) On 02/04/2013 at 16:16, rcf said: Good to hear from you Marc. Taking your last comment about my building 'it into a super micro' first, no pressure there then! I really don't know what the issue is on the points, but others have obviously had similar problems. I was very careful when initially painting and ballasting but it still caused shorting on my NCE Powercab as soon as the loco hit the toe of the point. I tried extra cleaning but nothing helped. The solution according to peco is to connect the switch blades to the stock rails and cut the wiring under the frog and that, for me, would have meant lifting the point. This means you have to use a switch to change the polarity on the frog. You also need to insure the point is isolated from the track. I will never know whether this would have worked as I am now going down a different route, but next time... I tend to agree that points do add something to the layout and it is strange to consider building a layout without any, certainly something I would not have considered a few years ago. However the idea of building without, does appeal to my idea of simplicity and it definitely works with Abercynon. As I get older 'simple' becomes ever more attractive! Cheers Rob Hi Fellas, Although many get away without modding pointwork for DCC, any points (switches) that rely on the switch blades for connectivety, is taking a risk.. In addition, as I have Posted before, Peco points are not always perfect from the factory - even the 7mm FS versions - and some need fettling. I am sorry to hear that you have had problems Rob, I am sure that it will all come good for you though. Kind regards, CME Edited November 7, 2022 by CME and Bottlewasher 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Good to hear from you Marc. Taking your last comment about my building 'it into a super micro' first, no pressure there then..... I tend to agree that points do add something to the layout and it is strange to consider building a layout without any, certainly something I would not have considered a few years ago. However the idea of building without, does appeal to my idea of simplicity and it definitely works with Abercynon. As I get older 'simple' becomes ever more attractive! Cheers Rob Rob, I didn't intend to add any pressure sir I was merely commenting on the super quality of your recent modelling I'm sure it will look good once it is finished Having drawn up several "pointless" plans, and seen a growing number of point-free layouts, I must say, I am tempted to build one So I'll keep a keen eye on your progress here...... Still no pressure Rob - honest On the topic of pointless model railway layouts I just wondered whether you had seen this design by Phil Parker "Lesspoint" is a nice little take on the concept http://www.flickr.com/photos/45131642@N00/4410927743/ Cheers again guys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted April 3, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 3, 2013 Marc, many thanks for that link. Especially interesting as I have considered something very similar based on Uxbridge Vine Street. Its still on my list of possible layouts. Cheers Rob Rob, I didn't intend to add any pressure sirI was merely commenting on the super quality of your recent modelling I'm sure it will look good once it is finishedHaving drawn up several "pointless" plans, and seen a growing number of point-free layouts,I must say, I am tempted to build oneSo I'll keep a keen eye on your progress here......Still no pressure Rob - honest On the topic of pointless model railway layoutsI just wondered whether you had seen this design by Phil Parker"Lesspoint" is a nice little take on the concepthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/45131642@N00/4410927743/ Cheers again guys Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 (edited) Rob, I had a "Eureka moment" yesterday evening!Doesn't happen very often, I can assure you....It's too late for you, as you have ripped the point up, I'm afraidbut if you need to isolate the frog on a Peco point which has been laid I think you could identify which sleeper has the tie on each side, and simply cut a section of it out, using a cut-off discThis could easily be filled back in, with a sleeper offcut or plasticardJust in case anyone reading this wants to to the mod to a point in-situ....BTW. I saw a neat little trick on an O gauge layout at the Bristol O gauge show last yearOne chap had saved space on his layout, using an unusual method; Emerging from from under a bridge at the entrance of the layout is apparently 2 tracks....however, all you see is the vee end of the pointand that's all it is! The sector plate pivots just behind the vee A donwside of this is that the sector plate needs a wide "swing"and you can only have 1 road on the sector....but it is a neat trick for small layouts, as you effectively have a point, but in about a third of the space Appols for putting my ideas and Eureka moments on your thread Rob Marc Edited April 4, 2013 by marc smith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rcf Posted April 4, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 4, 2013 Rob, I had a "Eureka moment" yesterday evening! Doesn't happen very often, I can assure you.... It's too late for you, as you have ripped the point up, I'm afraid but if you need to isolate the frog on a Peco point which has been laid I think you could identify which sleeper has the tie on each side, and simply cut a section of it out, using a cut-off disc This could easily be filled back in, with a sleeper offcut or plasticard Just in case anyone reading this wants to to the mod to a point in-situ.... BTW. I saw a neat little trick on an O gauge layout at the Bristol O gauge show last year One chap had saved space on his layout, using an unusual method; Emerging from from under a bridge at the entrance of the layout is apparently 2 tracks.... however, all you see is the vee end of the point and that's all it is! The sector plate pivots just behind the vee A donwside of this is that the sector plate needs a wide "swing" and you can only have 1 road on the sector.... but it is a neat trick for small layouts, as you effectively have a point, but in about a third of the space Appols for putting my ideas and Eureka moments on your thread Rob Marc Marc, eureka moments are rare and should have the widest audience. When I was screaming in frustration with my point I thought there was probably a way of cutting the wiring on the frog but decided that if I got it wrong I would end up cutting something else! The idea with the sector plate sounds good, and I did think along similar lines myself, before opting for the present solution. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc smith Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Rob, I pondered the sector plate, using a vee which I obtained cheaply....It was half a Peco diamond crossing - I got it for a pound and I really must get around to trying it out in the fashion I mentioned....One day - when I have more time Your present solution looks fineDon't forget to post piccies of your progressMarc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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