RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 30, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 Stu, it isn't the fact the the board joints don't cross the points at 90deg that is the problem, more where the board joint crosses and splits the point in two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have cut a Peco turnout to go across a baseboard worked fine I haven't needed to do so with handbuilt ones. To be specific Q1 Fine towards the crossing if anything. Q2 Rather close to the toes the switch rails will only have one proper chair and slide chairs do not hold it as well so move the joint further away from the toe if possible Q3 You could move the toe quite close I would suggest one timber between the end of the wing rails and the toe of the blades minimum. Of course you could move the toes the other side of the crossing a the price of more complicated work extra crossing etc. Q4 I suspect the mainline company would require a trap to protect its lines and would probably place it their side of the gate. I have got my books handy to check for an example. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 30, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have cut a Peco turnout to go across a baseboard worked fine I haven't needed to do so with handbuilt ones. To be specific Q1 Fine towards the crossing if anything. Q2 Rather close to the toes the switch rails will only have one proper chair and slide chairs do not hold it as well so move the joint further away from the toe if possible Q3 You could move the toe quite close I would suggest one timber between the end of the wing rails and the toe of the blades minimum. Of course you could move the toes the other side of the crossing a the price of more complicated work extra crossing etc. Q4 I suspect the mainline company would require a trap to protect its lines and would probably place it their side of the gate. I have got my books handy to check for an example. Don Thanks for the replies Don. Regarding Q4, the situation is remarkably similar to that which existing at Grogley Halt and the line to Ruthern Bridge. The Southern Railways Group track plan of that location doesn't appear to show a catch point - presumably because the first point down the freight only line acted as one. Unfortunately, all the photos of that area I have don't show the track near the gate clearly. I'll have to start watching the various DVDs next! (Any excuse...) (Edit: pointless looking at DVDs - the Grogley junction was lifted pre WW2) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 30, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 Q4 I suspect the mainline company would require a trap to protect its lines and would probably place it their side of the gate. I have got my books handy to check for an example. Don After a bit more looking through books covering the nearby LSWR and B&W lines... The single same 1933 photo of the Grogley Halt gated entry to the Ruthern Bridge line appears in all the books I have. The only other shots show the location after the siding was lifted. There was also a short siding off the LSWR line just West of Nanstallon. This was also gated and had a catch point on the LSWR side of the gate. It was however a straight stub rather than the kickback affair I have and existing at Grogley. There was also, of course, Dunmere Jct where the the Wenford Mineral line met the LSWR line to Bodmin. This was also gated and also had a catch point on the LSWR side of the gate. The next set of points was, however a good 1/2mile along the mineral line. Based on observation and general conjecture I'm erring towards a catch point note being required owing to the proximity of the clay line siding point acting as the same. I hold my hand up and openly say I know nothing of track / signalling prototype and therefore would appreciate views from the wider flock. To add a bit more context to the layout specific situation in Q4 I've taken a few more photos showing how the gated zone fits in with the wider area: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 30, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 how about a small graident...not many wagons run uphill afte all? Despite the uphill grade, they still had a trap off the Wenford line at Dunmere Jct! Anyway, I've asked the specific question regarding the trap in the PW forum area and we seem to be reaching a conclusion... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2014 how about a small graident...not many wagons run uphill afte all?Except when they are being pushed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Have you thought about using tandem or 3 way points in an attempt to avoid the board joints. If you are making your own they can fit the location you want. That way you can close them up and potentially avoid cross board points. Having said that if you choose that route provided the rail end is anchored to the board by soldering to a brass screw at the board end I doubt you will have any problems. If you intend to exhibit the layout 4 boards is better than three as you can make them up into a box using end pieces. If you have 3 you are going to have to have a dummy or find another method of transport! Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2014 Why not put the whole point on it's own mini board, which then straddles the two main boards ? You could then built it on your workbench rather than in situ ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2014 Why not put the whole point on it's own mini board, which then straddles the two main boards ? You could then built it on your workbench rather than in situ ? I've thought of that Stu and it remains an option. I think that Iain Rice chap referred to the concept as a Jigsaw board. I'm now confident that with some minor adjustments I can place the point in a suitable location over the joint. Time will tell but either way I'll make it work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2014 Have you thought about using tandem or 3 way points in an attempt to avoid the board joints. If you are making your own they can fit the location you want. That way you can close them up and potentially avoid cross board points. Having said that if you choose that route provided the rail end is anchored to the board by soldering to a brass screw at the board end I doubt you will have any problems. If you intend to exhibit the layout 4 boards is better than three as you can make them up into a box using end pieces. If you have 3 you are going to have to have a dummy or find another method of transport! Paul R Morning Paul. There's two locations where a tandem could be used and I tried it at both. Whilst that option does help with the board joint issues it adversely effects the length of either the loop, the platform or sidings. The plan I have carefully balances all these interdependent variables. I'm not planning to take the layout on tour but ease of storage, handling and protection are all addressed by having 4 equal length boards. By complete chance I have a piece of board, used to blackout a window, which is 36" x 39.5" and found it a good size for moving around the house. I just have to watch the board weight now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2014 I could summarise the above two posts by saying "isn't O Gauge big" and "you don't get much in 9' "! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2014 As prompted by Mark offline, I need also to consider fiddleyard format before formalizing the track plan. I think we're getting there though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2014 Going back to your catch point; the turnout with the "clay line" post-it note on it could protect the mainline from runaways if its throw was linked to the turnout at the other end of the gate line, I think? I was going to suggest jigsaw boards too. Q1, 2 & 3 I'd agree with what Don said Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2014 Chris one thing I didn't point out is that if a turnout is split across the joint the mechanism to operate it is on one board and the crossing which has to be polarity switched is on the other so you need an extra wire crossing the join. Obviously you would have spotted this yourself but I thought you might need to include it in you plans to ensure any cross join plugs have sufficient capacity. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Will you be using DCC to control the points? Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 31, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2014 Will you be using DCC to control the points? Paul R Having used DCC on other layouts I'm 100% certain I'll not be using it for point control, I am however considering it to control the locos. I like simple on-on switches for points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2014 I could summarise the above two posts by saying "isn't O Gauge big" and "you don't get much in 9' "! I don't post often on this thread Chris but I am following it - and enjoying it. As for 9' - that's vast acreage. Whenever you want me to send you an Association membership form let me know Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 1, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2014 I don't post often on this thread Chris but I am following it - and enjoying it. As for 9' - that's vast acreage. Whenever you want me to send you an Association membership form let me know Jerry Morning Jerry, Glad to hear that you're managing to keep up! I hope you've taken notes as there will be a test later. Having always previously modeled in 4mm scale, this project has been a massive learning curve. It's a very different proposition modeling in a scale with very little RTR and the majority of 'stuff' produced by cottage industries. I'm really enjoying the change of scene and new challenges though. Don't worry, I haven't abandoned 4mm scale and all that Wadebridge info is going to be used, but that's another story... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 1, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2014 Chris one thing I didn't point out is that if a turnout is split across the joint the mechanism to operate it is on one board and the crossing which has to be polarity switched is on the other so you need an extra wire crossing the join. Obviously you would have spotted this yourself but I thought you might need to include it in you plans to ensure any cross join plugs have sufficient capacity. Don Morning Don, yes I'm aware of the added electrical complications of splitting a point over a board joint. Being happy in my own mind that this poses no technical issue I'm pushing ahead without looking at electrics -yet! The next bridge to cross is to convert my paper layout into something real and to get on with bodging wood. I suspect that may be a job for March as I'm working away a fair bit in Feb. Still, that gives me the opportunity to plan the baseboards properly. I'm sure though, when the time cones, I'll have plenty of "where does this wire go" questions and undoubtedly a number if suggestions from the copper chimney brigade!! All the best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 1, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2014 Going back to your catch point; the turnout with the "clay line" post-it note on it could protect the mainline from runaways if its throw was linked to the turnout at the other end of the gate line, I think? I was going to suggest jigsaw boards too. Q1, 2 & 3 I'd agree with what Don said We can have a good chinwag at the show today Mark. I'm bringing the portable research library and a couple of bits of stock. Mike (stationmaster) will also apparently be around with 'nodtobrent' Robin, and I'm hoping to pick his brain too. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted February 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2014 Chris can't have too many saw cuts making funny shaped board joints, Damian's used most of his sandpaper. .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Well it is a branch - more of a twig - and the branch off may be just a splinter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 1, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2014 Mark, Here's the link to the off-thread discussion about the trap point: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81729-does-this-situation-need-a-trap-point-or-not/?p=1326077 Good to see you all today. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2014 Mark, Here's the link to the off-thread discussion about the trap point: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81729-does-this-situation-need-a-trap-point-or-not/?p=1326077 Good to see you all today. Still can't believe the plans loco-wise you told me today Chris.Gobsmacked and after all we've been through........ We has a look on their stand as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 1, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2014 Mr Banks Many thanks for the contribution to the Pencarrow cause. I'm sure the rail will appear on a layout will love being run on by Beattie Well Tanks. How bizarre that C&L were at Stafford today but had no 7mm stock with them. They could have sold me a load of PECO track though - what's the world coming to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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